Does Soto have ANY value right now?

[Little Slide Rooter]

The unconditional love for Soto amongst several on this board is truly mystifying.

 

I'm looking forward to some heads exploding when the whippingboy LaHair has a better year than the goldenboy Soto.

 

I'm not seeing any unconditional love. Just the fact that we've just sold one guy at his lowest possible value so it's of no benefit to us to do so with another guy, especially one under team control for a few more years. We're not going to win this season so it really can't hurt to at least give him until July to boost his value. Clevenger's done a good job, but I can't see him as more than a backup catcher in the long run.

[SouthSideRyan]

Good thing LaHair is a catcher.

[Sammy Sofa]

The unconditional love for Soto amongst several on this board is truly mystifying.

 

I'm looking forward to some heads exploding when the whippingboy LaHair has a better year than the goldenboy Soto.

 

I was going to say you have no idea what you're babbling about, but it actually makes sense if one understands dave-speak. Once again, there is no in-between for him: if you don't think Soto is hopelessly horrible, you apparently have "unconditional love" for him because he's a "goldenboy."

 

Sprinkle in some nonsensical gibberish inexplicably pitting Soto against LaHair and you've got a spectacular davearm2 masterpiece.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Sammy Sofa

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Soto and BABIP have spotted LaHair a huge lead, and I'll still take Soto for more WAR than LaHair this season.

[Soul]

sorry, not falling for the ploy to turn one Cub player against another just to prove some bizarre point.

[Hendrys Ghost]

Catchers sporting a .447 OPS are hard to come by.

 

Sample size!!

[Sammy Sofa]

Who else do you post as?

[davearm2]

The unconditional love for Soto amongst several on this board is truly mystifying.

 

I'm looking forward to some heads exploding when the whippingboy LaHair has a better year than the goldenboy Soto.

 

I was going to say you have no idea what you're babbling about, but it actually makes sense if one understands dave-speak. Once again, there is no in-between for him: if you don't think Soto is hopelessly horrible, you apparently have "unconditional love" for him because he's a "goldenboy."

You're in denial.

[davearm2]

Soto and BABIP have spotted LaHair a huge lead, and I'll still take Soto for more WAR than LaHair this season.

Too much garbage in WAR. You trust the defensive metrics for catchers and 1Bs? I sure don't.

 

LaHair will out-OPS Soto.

[Sammy Sofa]

The unconditional love for Soto amongst several on this board is truly mystifying.

 

I'm looking forward to some heads exploding when the whippingboy LaHair has a better year than the goldenboy Soto.

 

I was going to say you have no idea what you're babbling about, but it actually makes sense if one understands dave-speak. Once again, there is no in-between for him: if you don't think Soto is hopelessly horrible, you apparently have "unconditional love" for him because he's a "goldenboy."

You're in denial.

 

One: what a nonsensical response. Two: about what?

[davearm2]

The unconditional love for Soto amongst several on this board is truly mystifying.

 

I'm looking forward to some heads exploding when the whippingboy LaHair has a better year than the goldenboy Soto.

 

I was going to say you have no idea what you're babbling about, but it actually makes sense if one understands dave-speak. Once again, there is no in-between for him: if you don't think Soto is hopelessly horrible, you apparently have "unconditional love" for him because he's a "goldenboy."

You're in denial.

 

One: what a nonsensical response. Two: about what?

About how awful Soto is. The original poster had it right. The guy's lost at the plate and has been for more than a year. Who knows what became of "good Soto" but you and others need to realize he's been AWOL for quite a while now. You made it sound crazy that the Cubs might just need to turn the page. It's not at all crazy.

[Guest]

LaHair will out-OPS Soto.

 

 

Well we better hope so, as he's a first baseman, and not a particularly good defensive one at that. Also, on a more irrelevant note that's a useful reminder, Soto is two months younger than LaHair.

 

Soto and LaHair have had pretty similar batted ball profiles so far. LaHair's LD% is higher(26% to 21%), but he's also had a higher K rate(31% to 23%. LaHair's BABIP is .524 and Soto's is .156. Normalize those and Soto probably comes out ahead.

 

But anyway, aside from being a nice illustration of how crazy BABIP can be at this point in the season, LaHair has no purpose in this thread.

[Sammy Sofa]

About how awful Soto is. The original poster had it right. The guy's lost at the plate and has been for more than a year. Who knows what became of "good Soto" but you and others need to realize he's been AWOL for quite a while now. You made it sound crazy that the Cubs might just need to turn the page. It's not at all crazy.

 

I made it "sound crazy" to dump Soto right now. He hasn't been consistently "lost the plate for more than a year." There's no pressing need right now to ditch him over seeing if he can play out of it.

[CubColtPacer]

Soto and BABIP have spotted LaHair a huge lead, and I'll still take Soto for more WAR than LaHair this season.

Too much garbage in WAR. You trust the defensive metrics for catchers and 1Bs? I sure don't.

 

LaHair will out-OPS Soto.

 

You could just take the defensive metrics out of the equation (and baserunning too if you want)...just add their offensive, replacement, and positional values together. That would be more accurate than just using OPS in this case since the positional value of catchers is so, so much higher than 1B, while not having to worry if a strange defensive number significantly impacted their WAR or not.

 

Soto's peripherals continue to be worrying though. That BB/K ratio which was a major problem last year has just continued so far this year.

[Theo]

I propose we don't scare away every new poster that wants to talk baseball.

This. The level of elitism around here is ridiculous.

 

You don't have to agree with the OP(I don't with his post), but immediately he get his arse jumped in the thread.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Theo

[Hendrys Ghost]

I did not realize you could not make an observation without getting jumped on here. I mean the common fan can see Soto looks like Jobu from major league. If you throw a slider down he misses it by a foot and he has made no adjustments on that pitch.

 

There are some rumors out there that Geo could be dealt at the deadline. All I said is does he have any value at all? I am ready for a change at catcher.

[javy knows my name]

Soto and BABIP have spotted LaHair a huge lead, and I'll still take Soto for more WAR than LaHair this season.

Too much garbage in WAR. You trust the defensive metrics for catchers and 1Bs? I sure don't.

 

LaHair will out-OPS Soto.

 

The defense-challenged 1B will out-OPS the defensively solid catcher? GET OUTTA TOWN.

[Sammy Sofa]

Of course he doesn't have much value right now, which is why "getting rid of him" or whatever ASAP doesn't make much sense.

[Sammy Sofa]

I propose we don't scare away every new poster that wants to talk baseball.

This. The level of elitism around here is ridiculous.

 

Oh, please. One of the reasons this place took off is because it offered an alternative to Cubs.com-style meatball-ism.

[Hendrys Ghost]

Meatball-ism? What does this mean?

[Sammy Sofa]

"I am ready to pull the Plug on the Soto era" is a prime example. Basically shortsighted, gut-driven overreactions to baseball, driven by a "I know what I see"-mentality over any kind of actual analysis. Edited April 23, 2012 by Sammy Sofa

[davearm2]

Soto and BABIP have spotted LaHair a huge lead, and I'll still take Soto for more WAR than LaHair this season.

Too much garbage in WAR. You trust the defensive metrics for catchers and 1Bs? I sure don't.

 

LaHair will out-OPS Soto.

 

The defense-challenged 1B will out-OPS the defensively solid catcher? GET OUTTA TOWN.

Nobody here would have taken that bet before the season. CW then was Soto was due for a big bounce-back, and LaHair is complete trash.

[SouthSideRyan]

I did not realize you could not make an observation without getting jumped on here. I mean the common fan can see Soto looks like Jobu from major league. If you throw a slider down he misses it by a foot and he has made no adjustments on that pitch.

 

There are some rumors out there that Geo could be dealt at the deadline. All I said is does he have any value at all? I am ready for a change at catcher.

 

MILLIONDOLLARARMTENCENTHEADTAKEASEATMEAT

[davearm2]

I propose we don't scare away every new poster that wants to talk baseball.

This. The level of elitism around here is ridiculous.

 

Oh, please. One of the reasons this place took off is because it offered an alternative to Cubs.com-style meatball-ism.

And one of the reasons it has fallen off so badly is because of the elitism.

[Sammy Sofa]

Soto and BABIP have spotted LaHair a huge lead, and I'll still take Soto for more WAR than LaHair this season.

Too much garbage in WAR. You trust the defensive metrics for catchers and 1Bs? I sure don't.

 

LaHair will out-OPS Soto.

 

The defense-challenged 1B will out-OPS the defensively solid catcher? GET OUTTA TOWN.

Nobody here would have taken that bet before the season. CW then was Soto was due for a big bounce-back, and LaHair is complete trash.

 

Once again there is no middle ground in the davearm2 universe.