Re: College Basketball 2012-2013

[Bruno7481]

Also, I was comparing Oladipo's pro prospects to Watford's not Zeller's. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

Gotcha. I'm not unreasonable, even if I am an IU fan.

[Exile on Waveland]

Watford was going to go pro last year. He didn't and a kid got creaned. What if Zeller gets hurt like Creek? What if Oladipo doesn't develop? Is IU the only team in America overcommitted right now? Probably. Fans explain it away, boosters just want to win, the administration turns a blind eye. Hoo Hoo Hoosiers.

 

You really want to compare the pro prospects of Watford and Zeller?

 

Patterson ended up at Syracuse, I think he will be fine. His situation has been well covered.

If Patterson was really screwed as many of you want to believe, why be so silent on it? Why wouldn't he blast the program?

 

Crean's not the laughingstock many painted him to be his first few years. He turned this thing around before many thought possible. Hope you really enjoyed those few years because I don't see them returning very soon.

 

First, it's entirely false to say the fan base does not care. There's been a thread nearly every day for at least a year (sometimes more than one) on peegs about the over-signing issue. There are many that are uncomfortable with it. I'm not entirely sure what the remedy here is, however; boycott because Bobby Capobianco was asked to transfer? Really?

 

Second, there's nothing to "explain away" with Patterson. He did not make his grades and was not admitted (if he had bee there was a plan in place and one player was going to go off scholarship). To believe otherwise, one must believe, at least:

 

(1) the university itself not only turned a blind eye, but was complicit and opened itself up to all the blame (I suppose possible nowadays, see UNC, but doesn't seem likely);

(2) Crean lined fourteen players up and chose to run off the ninth most valuable prospect instead of the fourteenth (why not "Crean" the worst player on the team? -- this isn't Capobianco ending up at Valpo, Patterson ended up at Syracuse -- he's darn good);

(3) Crean ran a player off while two other players were in limbo having not been cleared by the NCAA (why not wait to "Crean" a player before knowing you actually will have to?)

(4) Crean allowed Patterson to matriculate, take summer classes, then pulled the rug out from under him in the middle of the summer, not only pulling his scholarship but placing him in a veritable dunce's cap by blaming academics -- and yet, despite actions that would be utterly despicable, not one person wronged has said otherwise (Instead we have Patterson saying ". . . it was an opportunity I didn’t fulfill" and his AAU coach saying "It was a close call as far as him getting into school"). The silence speaks volumes.

 

But I know, I know, the long form birth certificate doesn't have the appropriate water mark.

[Exile on Waveland]

Also, I was comparing Oladipo's pro prospects to Watford's not Zeller's. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

Gotcha. I'm not unreasonable, even if I am an IU fan.

 

On that, I do believe IU over-signed last year because they expected Watford to go pro (he had to be talked out of going pro as a sophomore). That surely caused Crean to scramble a bit, but a player, not sure which, agreed to pay his own way. If the same thing happens this year, and no one besides Zeller goes pro, I'm not sure what will happen and I could see the situation taking an ugly turn. Hope not.

[SouthSideRyan]

Patterson couldn't make the grades at Indiana, but could at Syracuse. I wouldn't think a school where seemingly every basketball player is graduating in 3 semesters would be that difficult to get into.

[Exile on Waveland]

Patterson couldn't make the grades at Indiana, but could at Syracuse. I wouldn't think a school where seemingly every basketball player is graduating in 3 semesters would be that difficult to get into.

 

So Patterson and his AAU coach are lying? Because they both agree that's what happened. The only people that disagree are people that hate Indiana and want to think the worst. You, literally, have no evidence whatsoever to support your position other than hate. (Maybe Crean is like a Mafia Don and can force a code of omerta even among players no longer at IU?)

 

Indiana isn't overly hard to get into, but that doesn't mean it entirely lacks standards (as I've said, perhaps they've increased standards for basketball players after the Sampson debacle . . . ? They have had the contingency admittance for awhile, I know). Regardless, graduating in three years is not that difficult in the State of Indiana anymore. Mitch Daniels was a driving force for high schools to offer more AP classes/college credits, so students could enter college with more credits, graduate sooner, and thus spend less money. Then you factor in summer classes -- and the fact that athletes have excellent tutors and such, and it's not that hard. Graduating early is as much about credit-accumulation as it is about intelligence level.

[SouthSideRyan]

(1) the university itself not only turned a blind eye, but was complicit and opened itself up to all the blame (I suppose possible nowadays, see UNC, but doesn't seem likely);

 

IU is the Penn State of the basketball world. This isn't far-fetched.

 

(2) Crean lined fourteen players up and chose to run off the ninth most valuable prospect instead of the fourteenth (why not "Crean" the worst player on the team? -- this isn't Capobianco ending up at Valpo, Patterson ended up at Syracuse -- he's darn good);

 

9th most valuable who would've hogged up a scholarship for 4 more seasons.

 

(3) Crean ran a player off while two other players were in limbo having not been cleared by the NCAA (why not wait to "Crean" a player before knowing you actually will have to?)

 

Because you can't practice with 14 scholarship players?

 

(4) Crean allowed Patterson to matriculate, take summer classes, then pulled the rug out from under him in the middle of the summer, not only pulling his scholarship but placing him in a veritable dunce's cap by blaming academics -- and yet, despite actions that would be utterly despicable, not one person wronged has said otherwise (Instead we have Patterson saying ". . . it was an opportunity I didn’t fulfill" and his AAU coach saying "It was a close call as far as him getting into school"). The silence speaks volumes.

 

You let him take the summer classes because you hope the situation clears itself up. Maybe Derek Elston gets arrested, maybe Remy Abel has an unfortunate base jumping accident.

 

Have you ever heard of a player who leaves a school under these circumstances badmouth the coach/program on his way out?

Edited November 12, 2012 by SouthSideRyan

[Guest]

So if Patterson hadn't been dumb as a stump, how would IU have met the scholly limits?

[Exile on Waveland]

IU is the Penn State of the basketball world? Not, say, I don't know, Syracuse? As I said before: you have hate and nothing else for evidence.

 

I'm tempted to end with that because of how absurd that point was. But I'll comment on two other things: first, Jurkin takes a scholarship for four years, too, and is a lesser prospect, so why not him?; second, sure, you can practice with fourteen players, but I'm not sure what your point is? If Patterson was run off, Crean did so at a time when he could have also lost Perea and Jurkin as eligible players. Edit: I'm sure there are instances of players bad-mouthing a coach when leaving; but this situation would be so, so worse than the typical situation, I have a very hard time believing no one would have said anything.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Exile on Waveland

[Exile on Waveland]

So if Patterson hadn't been dumb as a stump, how would IU have met the scholly limits?

 

As I've said many times, a player had already agreed to go off scholarship. Now, maybe you don't think that's fair and think that's akin to "Creaning." Depending on who the player was, especially if he hadn't agreed to it before coming to Indiana, I'd think you have a point.

[Smack]

Patterson couldn't make the grades at Indiana, but could at Syracuse. I wouldn't think a school where seemingly every basketball player is graduating in 3 semesters would be that difficult to get into.

 

The only people that disagree are people that hate Indiana and want to think the worst.

 

I'm pretty sure you have that exactly backwards. The only people that agree with your assesment are IU fans.

[SouthSideRyan]

So if Patterson hadn't been dumb as a stump, how would IU have met the scholly limits?

 

As I've said many times, a player had already agreed to go off scholarship.

 

Yes, the mythical player who would pay his own way, passed down from generation to generation to rationalize shoving a kid off the team.

 

And you can enter a school year with 14 scholarship basketball players? That's news to me.

[SouthSideRyan]

IU is the Penn State of the basketball world? Not, say, I don't know, Syracuse? As I said before: you have hate and nothing else for evidence.

 

 

I'm not saying Tom Crean is molesting kids(but I'm not saying he's not either). I'm talking about the creepy cult of Indiana basketball.

[Smack]

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/tom-crean-gif.gif

[Exile on Waveland]

So if Patterson hadn't been dumb as a stump, how would IU have met the scholly limits?

 

As I've said many times, a player had already agreed to go off scholarship.

 

Yes, the mythical player who would pay his own way, passed down from generation to generation to rationalize shoving a kid off the team.

 

And you can enter a school year with 14 scholarship basketball players? That's news to me.

 

It is so unheard of that two kids did so at Louisville last year.

 

I am not entirely sure; but I think that doesn't have to be squared away until the first semester begins.

[Exile on Waveland]

Patterson couldn't make the grades at Indiana, but could at Syracuse. I wouldn't think a school where seemingly every basketball player is graduating in 3 semesters would be that difficult to get into.

 

The only people that disagree are people that hate Indiana and want to think the worst.

 

I'm pretty sure you have that exactly backwards. The only people that agree with your assesment are IU fans.

 

Oh, great. In that case I'd love to see some support for that proposition. Then, if you happen to find anything, we can weigh that against the beliefs of parties that were actually involved.

[SouthSideRyan]

So if Patterson hadn't been dumb as a stump, how would IU have met the scholly limits?

 

As I've said many times, a player had already agreed to go off scholarship.

 

Yes, the mythical player who would pay his own way, passed down from generation to generation to rationalize shoving a kid off the team.

 

And you can enter a school year with 14 scholarship basketball players? That's news to me.

 

It is so unheard of that two kids did so at Louisville last year.

 

Link?

 

I am not entirely sure; but I think that doesn't have to be squared away until the first semester begins.

 

Patterson was denied admittance to the university on August 15th. School usually starts sometime around there-a week later.

[Bruno7481]

Here is your link. There were actually three that went off scholarship, 2 of which were main contributors.

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/06/kuric-two-others-taken-off-scholarship-will-be-walk-ons-at-louisville/1#.UKEreYc71zs

[Exile on Waveland]

"Or that last season, he needed three scholarship players — Elisha Justice, Kyle Kuric and Chris Smith — to become walk-ons."

 

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/07/rick-pitino-oversigning-and-some-more-ramblings-about-transfers/ (see also Michael Bradley giving up a scholarship at UConn http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2011/10/uconn-freshman-sacrifices-own-scholarship-to-sign-andre-drummond/ ("red-shirt freshman Michael Bradley approached Calhoun and offered up his full basketball scholarship so the program could sign Drummond"). I believe there are a few other examples of this, too, that I'm forgetting. It's not unheard of.

[Exile on Waveland]

IU is the Penn State of the basketball world? Not, say, I don't know, Syracuse? As I said before: you have hate and nothing else for evidence.

 

 

I'm not saying Tom Crean is molesting kids(but I'm not saying he's not either). I'm talking about the creepy cult of Indiana basketball.

 

I think that died awhile ago.

[Smack]

Aside from all the Creaning.

 

How did Creek look Friday?

[Bruno7481]

Looked ok. His value will be in his shooting ability. I think his days of cutting to the basket and such are over.

 

They are trying to watch his time in practice, not wanting to overdo him. He will certainly contribute if healthy, but time will tell on that front. I was encouraged.

[SouthSideRyan]

IU is the Penn State of the basketball world? Not, say, I don't know, Syracuse? As I said before: you have hate and nothing else for evidence.

 

 

I'm not saying Tom Crean is molesting kids(but I'm not saying he's not either). I'm talking about the creepy cult of Indiana basketball.

 

I think that died awhile ago.

 

Kel-vin Samp-son chants as he was walking down death row and sell out crowds for the worst major conference basketball team I've ever seen.

[SouthSideRyan]

Here is your link. There were actually three that went off scholarship, 2 of which were main contributors.

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/06/kuric-two-others-taken-off-scholarship-will-be-walk-ons-at-louisville/1#.UKEreYc71zs

 

Those were former walk-ons, and there are no comments from them complaining about the situation.

[Bruno7481]

Here is your link. There were actually three that went off scholarship, 2 of which were main contributors.

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/06/kuric-two-others-taken-off-scholarship-will-be-walk-ons-at-louisville/1#.UKEreYc71zs

 

Those were former walk-ons, and there are no comments from them complaining about the situation.

 

Kuric and Smith started from their Junior year. Call them whatever you want. They were starters that went off scholarship, not guys who never got to play.

[Exile on Waveland]

Aside from all the Creaning.

 

How did Creek look Friday?

 

He looks better than two years ago; to the point where I have some hope he may be able to play the whole season without getting hurt again. Now, obviously, he'll never be the player he was and is likely only capable of being a spot-up shooter. That's something, at least.