Wrigley Renovation Thread

[Guest]

“The question was asked, ‘What would you do if the rooftops sue,’” Cubs spokesman Julian Green said. “And his response to that was if we’re not able to put the signs up in the outfield that generates the revenue to put back into the team, then we have to consider looking elsewhere. In that context, yes, we would consider moving.”

 

Green said they are working with the community and have already made some changes in the renovation plans due to community input. He said they want to “work with the rooftops owners” so everyone is satisfied.

 

“I don’t think it’s a take it or leave it,” Green said. “But the one thing that we really need to make this team work for us is the signage inside the ballpark, not outside on the rooftops. So on that particular position he’s firm.

 

“We know we have a lot of stakeholders (in Wrigley’s future)- the bar owners, the restaurants, the neighbors, the city, the rooftop owners… But we would hope that we could move forward with this great opportunity where there’s a win-win, and not have this thing held up because of the legal right that we know, (we have the rights) to put up signs in the outfield….

 

“We know if we work together with the rooftop owners, everyone wins in this case. So we would hope we wouldn’t have to do that with the posturing of lawsuits or anything else.”

 

So it was not a threat to move?

 

“I think it’s a little bit overstated,” he said. “Even Tom said today, he wasn’t talking in those terms. Basically what he was saying is if the rooftops want to go as far as trying to sue, for us to keep making this investment, one that we want to make without any tax dollars, that if they want to hold it up, what he’s saying is we’ve got to look at other options.”

 

The Cubs filed their development plan with the city on Wednesday and still hope to be able to begin construction on the Cubs' home clubhouse and concrete work in the upper deck at the end of the 2013 season.

 

Green said a lot “of moving parts” have to be decided upon, including the height of the office plaza in the so-called Triangle plaza to the west of Wrigley, the size of the video board, when the video board can be on or off, the number of night games, and the number of outfield signs.

 

They’ll need to go through zoning meetings, the landmarks commission and the planning development to get the designs “up to code," Green said. Public hearings would take place after being scheduled by the city council.

 

“I’m not sure which one would be the (issue) that speeds this up (if resolved), but we’d like everything to move at a pretty good clip so we can try to get this thing movement,” Green said, adding that the mayor’s office has agreed to “help us along" with the process,

 

"They’d like to see this move pretty quickly," he said.

[Backtobanks]

Ricketts isn't going to move the team out of Wrigleyville and watch his real estate investments crash and burn.

[Guest]

Ricketts isn't going to move the team out of Wrigleyville and watch his real estate investments crash and burn.

 

A sunk cost is a sunk cost. If it made sense financially to move, it wouldn't matter what happens with those real estate investments.

[J.R.]

Seems clear to me that a twin structure will go up in right once the rooftop deal expires.

[KaiserCesar]

Ricketts isn't going to move the team out of Wrigleyville and watch his real estate investments crash and burn.

 

A sunk cost is a sunk cost. If it made sense financially to move, it wouldn't matter what happens with those real estate investments.

 

Except the 'cost' is an asset that will lose value if the team moves, so its not really a sunk cost in the traditional sense.

[Guest]

Ricketts isn't going to move the team out of Wrigleyville and watch his real estate investments crash and burn.

 

A sunk cost is a sunk cost. If it made sense financially to move, it wouldn't matter what happens with those real estate investments.

 

Except the 'cost' is an asset that will lose value if the team moves, so its not really a sunk cost in the traditional sense.

 

Again, if the move were to hypthetically make sense financially, they may move. If it doesn't, they won't. Determining this obviously would include accounting for any lost value to those properties.

 

If his point really is, "Ricketts isn't going to move the team if it doesn't make them more money," then, yes, I agree.

[RynoRules]

The City and rooftops are overplaying their hands here. They need the Cubs a helluva lot more than the Cubs need them. The team would make a ton of cash in Rosemont, which people forget is adjacent to O'Hare and is surrounded by hotels, restaurants, high and medium end office parks. Plus it's been highly redeveloped to the east of 294 and looks really good.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If Ricketts had the slightest intention of ever moving the team and an ounce of sense, he would have had serious exploratory talks with whatever suburbs would talk to him and kept that going while he went to the city to try to convince them to fund the renovations three years ago.

 

Since he didn't, and the best case he had was "Please? You did it for other people. Come on, be cool," we can safely assume that he knows it's not really a viable option and his bluff would be called quickly and embarrassingly if he did more than vaguely hint at the prospect.

[KaiserCesar]

Ricketts isn't going to move the team out of Wrigleyville and watch his real estate investments crash and burn.

 

A sunk cost is a sunk cost. If it made sense financially to move, it wouldn't matter what happens with those real estate investments.

 

Except the 'cost' is an asset that will lose value if the team moves, so its not really a sunk cost in the traditional sense.

 

Again, if the move were to hypthetically make sense financially, they may move. If it doesn't, they won't. Determining this obviously would include accounting for any lost value to those properties.

 

If his point really is, "Ricketts isn't going to move the team if it doesn't make them more money," then, yes, I agree.

 

I think his pointing out the existing assets and revenue streams tied to the current location puts the recent comments made by ownership in better context. It would take a lot for a move to make financial sense which indicates this is just posturing.

[RynoRules]

If Ricketts had the slightest intention of ever moving the team and an ounce of sense, he would have had serious exploratory talks with whatever suburbs would talk to him and kept that going while he went to the city to try to convince them to fund the renovations three years ago.

 

Since he didn't, and the best case he had was "Please? You did it for other people. Come on, be cool," we can safely assume that he knows it's not really a viable option and his bluff would be called quickly and embarrassingly if he did more than vaguely hint at the prospect.

 

Unless those discussions have been held confidentially between a small group of people.

[J.R.]

Rosemont, which people forget is adjacent to O'Hare and is surrounded by hotels, restaurants, high and medium end office parks.

I don't think anyone has forgotten this.

[RynoRules]

Rosemont, which people forget is adjacent to O'Hare and is surrounded by hotels, restaurants, high and medium end office parks.

I don't think anyone has forgotten this.

 

Some people appear to think it is the neighborhood that makes the park, not the other way around.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If Ricketts had the slightest intention of ever moving the team and an ounce of sense, he would have had serious exploratory talks with whatever suburbs would talk to him and kept that going while he went to the city to try to convince them to fund the renovations three years ago.

 

Since he didn't, and the best case he had was "Please? You did it for other people. Come on, be cool," we can safely assume that he knows it's not really a viable option and his bluff would be called quickly and embarrassingly if he did more than vaguely hint at the prospect.

 

Unless those discussions have been held confidentially between a small group of people.

 

Well, seeing as how Ricketts didn't get a dime from the city, it seems likely the threat wasn't viewed as credible.

[Guest]

Rosemont, which people forget is adjacent to O'Hare and is surrounded by hotels, restaurants, high and medium end office parks.

I don't think anyone has forgotten this.

 

Some people appear to think it is the neighborhood that makes the park, not the other way around.

 

It's more that the people make the park, and Rosemont would be a huge downgrade in accessibility, and therefore walk-up traffic.

[Soul]

Rosemont, which people forget is adjacent to O'Hare and is surrounded by hotels, restaurants, high and medium end office parks.

I don't think anyone has forgotten this.

 

Some people appear to think it is the neighborhood that makes the park, not the other way around.

 

It's more that the people make the park, and Rosemont would be a huge downgrade in accessibility, and therefore walk-up traffic.

 

Yeah, seems like teams want to try to move back in to the city rather than out.

 

Cubs are a special case though. I think Ricketts needs to make the threat credible before anyone will listen. He would need to actually start going through the process, start making serious moves in that direction.

 

He already did this with the Spring Training facility threats, so he's done this kind of thing before.

[Guest]

Rahm doesn't seem all that concerned that the Cubs wouldn't get their signs/board up.

[GammonsPocketTweets]

Brett puts together a good timeline of the next steps

 

http://www.bleachernation.com/2013/05/02/obsessive-wrigley-renovation-watch-timeline-threat-to-move-mayor-night-games-more-more-more/

 

There will now be a month of meetings among neighborhood groups, city committees, etc. to discuss and vet the Cubs’ proposal (which, remember, was put together after months and months of negotiation with the Mayor’s Office and Alderman Tom Tunney). The stickiest parts are expected to be the size and location of the JumboTron, the number of night games, and the details of the hotel/plaza area west of the park.

 

After that process, per Crain’s, the Cubs plan to go before the Landmarks Commission to get approval on June 6. At some point in June, the Cubs will go before the City Council license committee to get approval on the night game plan, before going before the Chicago Plan Commission on July 18 and the City Council zoning committee on July 19. If all has gone well to that point, the plan could be up for a full City Council vote in late July.

 

Does that leave enough time to get the renovations underway immediately after the season so that the player facility upgrades – new clubhouse, batting tunnel, health facilities, etc. – can be in place for Opening Day 2014? Well, from the sound of things, yes, but just barely. Each of Theo Epstein and Dale Sveum essentially said that it depends on how long the approval process takes. Given that it’s up in the air, that means we haven’t already passed the date by which they’ve got to have approvals in place to get things going after the season. And if the above timeline is what the Cubs desire, then that tells me if things proceed according to that timeline, all will be well.

 

I'm sorry, but I just don't have faith in the City of Chicago employees to do their part to get his stuff done. I mean, 90% of these people rode the short bus to school.

[Smack]

Is it bad that I picture Alderman Tom Tunney as Councilman Jeremy Jamm (D.D.S.) from Parks & Rec? All the way down to the alliterative names....

 

Edited May 2, 2013 by Smack

[johnbriggs12]

Rosemont, which people forget is adjacent to O'Hare and is surrounded by hotels, restaurants, high and medium end office parks.

I don't think anyone has forgotten this.

 

Some people appear to think it is the neighborhood that makes the park, not the other way around.

 

It's more that the people make the park, and Rosemont would be a huge downgrade in accessibility, and therefore walk-up traffic.

 

 

Are you serious? Rosemont is accessible from every direction via 294, the Kennedy, and NW Tollway. It has CTA service via the Blue Line. The added ease for those Cub fans in the suburbs would dwarf the loss of walk up traffic from those in the neighborhood. Why do so many Cub fans make the 90 mile trip to Miller Park when the Cubs play there? They don't get the "Wrigley experience" there do they? Part of that is that for suburban Cub fans, that's less hassle to get to than getting to Wrigleyville. I believe if the park were located in Rosemont, it won't be the same people in the park necessarily, but there are more than enough Cub fans who rarely go to games who would make up for them.

[Banedon]

Rosemont, which people forget is adjacent to O'Hare and is surrounded by hotels, restaurants, high and medium end office parks.

I don't think anyone has forgotten this.

 

Some people appear to think it is the neighborhood that makes the park, not the other way around.

 

It's more that the people make the park, and Rosemont would be a huge downgrade in accessibility, and therefore walk-up traffic.

 

 

Are you serious? Rosemont is accessible from every direction via 294, the Kennedy, and NW Tollway. It has CTA service via the Blue Line. The added ease for those Cub fans in the suburbs would dwarf the loss of walk up traffic from those in the neighborhood. Why do so many Cub fans make the 90 mile trip to Miller Park when the Cubs play there? They don't get the "Wrigley experience" there do they? Part of that is that for suburban Cub fans, that's less hassle to get to than getting to Wrigleyville. I believe if the park were located in Rosemont, it won't be the same people in the park necessarily, but there are more than enough Cub fans who rarely go to games who would make up for them.

 

I agree. It'd be easier access for people that don't live in the city, whether it be in the burbs or downstate. It'd be more difficult access for those that live in the city and are used to being able to get to Wrigley quickly.

[GammonsPocketTweets]

It would be more inconvienent for people in the city, but difficulty? Connect to the blue line and you are there.

[jersey cubs fan]

And tourists.

[Guest]

The proposed Rosemont site was as close to the Blue line as Wrigley is to the Ravenswood Metra station.

[RynoRules]

The proposed Rosemont site was as close to the Blue line as Wrigley is to the Ravenswood Metra station.

 

 

That's a short bus or shuttle ride on roads that are far better equipped to handle traffic than the area around Wrigley. Plus parking would be easier and likely much cheaper. Moreover, until he last couple of years, walk-up traffic wasn't much of an issue because all of the games were sold-out or nearly sold-out in advance. With more night-games coming, the suburban dwelling business-person who works in the Loop becomes an even more likely customer, and he/she will be very happy to take the blue line (park in the Kiss n Ride lot) or their car to Rosemont rather than be cornered in Wrigleyville. EDIT: This also applies to folks work and live in the 'burbs, many of whom stay away rather than fight the horrendous reverse commute to get to Wrigley for a 7:05 start. These two demos have tons of purchasing power, particularly relative to the Millenials who live in the apartments immedaitely around Wrigley.

 

The likelihood of the Cubs moving is slim in my estimation, but that doesn't mean it isn't plausible or viable.

[Guest]

The proposed Rosemont site was as close to the Blue line as Wrigley is to the Ravenswood Metra station.

 

 

That's a short bus or shuttle ride on roads that are far better equipped to handle traffic than the area around Wrigley. Plus parking would be easier and likely much cheaper. Moreover, until he last couple of years, walk-up traffic wasn't much of an issue because all of the games were sold-out or nearly sold-out in advance. With more night-games coming, the suburban dwelling business-person who works in the Loop becomes an even more likely customer, and he/she will be very happy to take the blue line (park in the Kiss n Ride lot) or their car to Rosemont rather than be cornered in Wrigleyville. EDIT: This also applies to folks work and live in the 'burbs, many of whom stay away rather than fight the horrendous reverse commute to get to Wrigley for a 7:05 start. These two demos have tons of purchasing power, particularly relative to the Millenials who live in the apartments immedaitely around Wrigley.

 

The likelihood of the Cubs moving is slim in my estimation, but that doesn't mean it isn't plausible or viable.

 

So the plan is to shuttle thousands of people down Mannheim or a lesser trafficked road? That's expensive, time consuming, and impractical.

 

As I mentioned when this first came about, because of the volume of people converging on the stadium, the only people who actually have a shorter transit time to Rosemont are those immediately west and southwest of O'Hare. Everyone in the city, the northern, northwest, and southern suburbs would all be looking at similar or longer times to get to the park.