Chicago Bears Offseason 2012

[jersey cubs fan]

disagree. urlacher, briggs and peppers are still playing at a pro-bowl level and driving the defense. the other 4 are pretty interchangeable. not many teams can boast 3 flat-out stars in their front 7.

 

The fact that they may still be good does not say anything about whether they are as good as ever. That is just simply not the case. They aren't as good as they were at their best, both the individuals discussed and the group as a whole.

 

i know you have a striking distaste for anything older and believe that age in-and-of-itself is a mark of decline, but you can't make the case that there has been an appreciable, significant, or noticeable decline in urlacher, briggs, or peppers, although i can see you trying.

 

I can't make the case that Urlacher is not as good as he was at his peak? Seriously? He's clearly lost a step, literally and figuratively. Still good, but not near the elite force he was at his best. Peppers and Briggs are probably not as good as they were at their peak, but the decline is less noticeable than with Urlacher. Besides all this though, that front seven was an unstoppable force in 2006. Thy are not currently as good as ever. It's just not true and it is completely disingenuous to claim that it is.

[rawaction]

disagree. urlacher, briggs and peppers are still playing at a pro-bowl level and driving the defense. the other 4 are pretty interchangeable. not many teams can boast 3 flat-out stars in their front 7.

 

The fact that they may still be good does not say anything about whether they are as good as ever. That is just simply not the case. They aren't as good as they were at their best, both the individuals discussed and the group as a whole.

 

i know you have a striking distaste for anything older and believe that age in-and-of-itself is a mark of decline, but you can't make the case that there has been an appreciable, significant, or noticeable decline in urlacher, briggs, or peppers, although i can see you trying.

 

Yeah you can for Urlacher. He used to be a better pass rusher, better pass defender, and a better run defender. He's still a very good player, but he's not the best player every time he takes the field anymore like he was in and around the Superbowl season. Will agree that Peppers and Briggs haven't had any significant decline.

 

And I will say again that I don't think Melton is filler. He has a big role in the defense. On the 2006 defense, Tommie Harris was the 3rd of the Big 3 (with Urlacher and Briggs), but Ogunleye played a huge role along with Alex Brown. Melton is at least the Ogunleye of this defense, but plays a more pivotal position.

[Banedon]

Rookie DE Shea McClellin continued to improve today. I saw him get some good inside pressure during full-contact 11-on-11s. He struggles to finish along the edge, but it’s all things he can learn. He’s a good football player, guys.

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bears-huddle/2012/08/training-camp-observations-wednesday-august-01-2012/

[Magnetic Curses]

the bears were probably the best team against the run last year. i don't know what your point is.

 

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

 

that was driven by the stars, not the filler.

 

urlacher is still the best coverage linebacker in the NFL and I can't remember him being better at it than he was last year, although i can't remember him being bad ever in that part of the game. clearly lost a step? i have no idea what you're talking about.

 

as far as briggs and peppers, you can say whatever you want but it doesn't make it true. upon closer analysis, the NY Times guy is about as right on as anyone on the bears beat.

[jersey cubs fan]

disagree. urlacher, briggs and peppers are still playing at a pro-bowl level and driving the defense. the other 4 are pretty interchangeable. not many teams can boast 3 flat-out stars in their front 7.

 

The fact that they may still be good does not say anything about whether they are as good as ever. That is just simply not the case. They aren't as good as they were at their best, both the individuals discussed and the group as a whole.

 

i know you have a striking distaste for anything older and believe that age in-and-of-itself is a mark of decline, but you can't make the case that there has been an appreciable, significant, or noticeable decline in urlacher, briggs, or peppers, although i can see you trying.

 

Yeah you can for Urlacher. He used to be a better pass rusher, better pass defender, and a better run defender. He's still a very good player, but he's not the best player every time he takes the field anymore like he was in and around the Superbowl season. Will agree that Peppers and Briggs haven't had any significant decline.

 

And I will say again that I don't think Melton is filler. He has a big role in the defense. On the 2006 defense, Tommie Harris was the 3rd of the Big 3 (with Urlacher and Briggs), but Ogunleye played a huge role along with Alex Brown. Melton is at least the Ogunleye of this defense, but plays a more pivotal position.

 

Mr. Anderson

[minnesotacubsfan]

A lengthy Bears preview from the NY Times...

 

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/chicago-bears-2012-n-f-l-season-preview/

 

 

"The Bears are one of the few teams that make special teams part of their foundation. Thirty-one other teams would do this, too, if they had a return artist like Devin Hester."

 

Not sure about that for a couple reasons. The Bears emphasized special teams before Hester showed up. It was always going to be a big part of their scheme. Additionally, they went after Hester and Manning in the same draft largely because of that emphasis on special teams.

 

I think some teams would do what the Bears have done if they had Hester. However, most would simply hope Hester would do what he does while treating the rest of their special teams unit exactly as they do now.

 

I thought it was revisionist too: the Bears have Hester because the focus so much on ST's

[Magnetic Curses]

disagree. urlacher, briggs and peppers are still playing at a pro-bowl level and driving the defense. the other 4 are pretty interchangeable. not many teams can boast 3 flat-out stars in their front 7.

 

The fact that they may still be good does not say anything about whether they are as good as ever. That is just simply not the case. They aren't as good as they were at their best, both the individuals discussed and the group as a whole.

 

i know you have a striking distaste for anything older and believe that age in-and-of-itself is a mark of decline, but you can't make the case that there has been an appreciable, significant, or noticeable decline in urlacher, briggs, or peppers, although i can see you trying.

 

Yeah you can for Urlacher. He used to be a better pass rusher, better pass defender, and a better run defender. He's still a very good player, but he's not the best player every time he takes the field anymore like he was in and around the Superbowl season. Will agree that Peppers and Briggs haven't had any significant decline.

 

And I will say again that I don't think Melton is filler. He has a big role in the defense. On the 2006 defense, Tommie Harris was the 3rd of the Big 3 (with Urlacher and Briggs), but Ogunleye played a huge role along with Alex Brown. Melton is at least the Ogunleye of this defense, but plays a more pivotal position.

 

what's the case for urlacher, other than your gut? you can say that's what you see, but i've probably been watching football about as long as you have and it'd be my word against yours, as the stats don't indicate a decline.

 

you're right about melton and ogunleye, but again, i don't think either of them are as rare as you'd suggest.

 

i actually like paea better than any other nose they've had, so the front seven are as good as ever, imo.

[Magnetic Curses]

disagree. urlacher, briggs and peppers are still playing at a pro-bowl level and driving the defense. the other 4 are pretty interchangeable. not many teams can boast 3 flat-out stars in their front 7.

 

The fact that they may still be good does not say anything about whether they are as good as ever. That is just simply not the case. They aren't as good as they were at their best, both the individuals discussed and the group as a whole.

 

i know you have a striking distaste for anything older and believe that age in-and-of-itself is a mark of decline, but you can't make the case that there has been an appreciable, significant, or noticeable decline in urlacher, briggs, or peppers, although i can see you trying.

 

Yeah you can for Urlacher. He used to be a better pass rusher, better pass defender, and a better run defender. He's still a very good player, but he's not the best player every time he takes the field anymore like he was in and around the Superbowl season. Will agree that Peppers and Briggs haven't had any significant decline.

 

And I will say again that I don't think Melton is filler. He has a big role in the defense. On the 2006 defense, Tommie Harris was the 3rd of the Big 3 (with Urlacher and Briggs), but Ogunleye played a huge role along with Alex Brown. Melton is at least the Ogunleye of this defense, but plays a more pivotal position.

 

Mr. Anderson

 

anderson and idonije have been the beneficiaries of excellent play by the others. although both have been good in their own right.

[jersey cubs fan]

i actually like paea better than any other nose they've had, so the front seven are as good as ever, imo.

 

You're nuts. Harris was a beast and Tank Johnson was actually quite good for a year.

 

You are honestly the only person I've heard suggest anything other than Urlacher isn't as good as he was at his peak. The team doesn't even pretend that is the case.

[minnesotacubsfan]

i actually like paea better than any other nose they've had, so the front seven are as good as ever, imo.

 

You're nuts. Harris was a beast and Tank Johnson was actually quite good for a year.

 

You are honestly the only person I've heard suggest anything other than Urlacher isn't as good as he was at his peak. The team doesn't even pretend that is the case.

 

Lovies system has played a bigger role in Urlachers perceived decline then his physical age. His physical decline is completely overblown

[Banedon]

Urlacher is smart enough to recognize plays and let that cover a lot of his physical decline, but he doesn't cover the same ground that he used to.

[Theo]

If I hear one more Bears fan, wheter it be in social media, or calling into the radio suggest that McClellin can always replace Urlacher when he's done, I"m going to lose it. Where to people come up with this nonense?

[Banedon]

If I hear one more Bears fan, wheter it be in social media, or calling into the radio suggest that McClellin can always replace Urlacher when he's done, I"m going to lose it. Where to people come up with this nonense?

 

Like Brad Biggs pointed out, when you draft a guy, you don't generally move him back in the defense, you move him forward. Saftey to LB. LB to DL. It doesn't usually go the other way.

[Theo]

He doesn't have near the speed or agility to play the MIKE in a Tampa 2 defense. He's either going to make it as a DE or he's not.

[Magnetic Curses]

i actually like paea better than any other nose they've had, so the front seven are as good as ever, imo.

 

You're nuts. Harris was a beast and Tank Johnson was actually quite good for a year.

 

You are honestly the only person I've heard suggest anything other than Urlacher isn't as good as he was at his peak. The team doesn't even pretend that is the case.

 

prove it then, and how is the team "not pretending" that that is the case? saying that they're not pretending that's the case doesn't mean anything, it's literally empty conjecture. his stats haven't suffered and he's done what he's done all of his career in coverage, so there's no real proof that he's lost a step. i'd wager that most of it is perception because he's 34 years old.

 

harris was a 3-technique interior lineman. he didn't play the same position as paea. tank johnson was ok.

[rawaction]

i actually like paea better than any other nose they've had, so the front seven are as good as ever, imo.

 

You're nuts. Harris was a beast and Tank Johnson was actually quite good for a year.

 

You are honestly the only person I've heard suggest anything other than Urlacher isn't as good as he was at his peak. The team doesn't even pretend that is the case.

 

Lovies system has played a bigger role in Urlachers perceived decline then his physical age. His physical decline is completely overblown

 

It's the same system he was in when he was at his best. Urlacher put up next to career 16-game season lows in tackles, passes defensed, and had no sacks. Urlacher was pretty consistent 125+ tackles, 5 sacks, 3 INT player in Lovie's system in his prime. He clearly does not have that ability anymore. His decline in range could be a reason the safety play has been so bad the last few years. Granted, Mike Brown was a beast too, but he was often out of the lineup without much dropoff as the last few years have had.

[Magnetic Curses]

i actually like paea better than any other nose they've had, so the front seven are as good as ever, imo.

 

You're nuts. Harris was a beast and Tank Johnson was actually quite good for a year.

 

You are honestly the only person I've heard suggest anything other than Urlacher isn't as good as he was at his peak. The team doesn't even pretend that is the case.

 

Lovies system has played a bigger role in Urlachers perceived decline then his physical age. His physical decline is completely overblown

 

It's the same system he was in when he was at his best. Urlacher put up next to career 16-game season lows in tackles, passes defensed, and had no sacks. Urlacher was pretty consistent 125+ tackles, 5 sacks, 3 INT player in Lovie's system in his prime.

 

that is really twisted analysis there and you're being intellectually dishonest to try and prove a point. he had 3 INT's last year, and he gets them because of his physical ability to cover the entire middle of the field.

 

his tackles weren't significantly down from year-to-year, either. the bears were so good against the run, teams simply didn't run as much on them.

[jersey cubs fan]

i actually like paea better than any other nose they've had, so the front seven are as good as ever, imo.

 

You're nuts. Harris was a beast and Tank Johnson was actually quite good for a year.

 

You are honestly the only person I've heard suggest anything other than Urlacher isn't as good as he was at his peak. The team doesn't even pretend that is the case.

 

prove it then, and how is the team "not pretending" that that is the case? saying that they're not pretending that's the case doesn't mean anything, it's literally empty conjecture. his stats haven't suffered and he's done what he's done all of his career in coverage, so there's no real proof that he's lost a step. i'd wager that most of it is perception because he's 34 years old.

 

harris was a 3-technique interior lineman. he didn't play the same position as paea. tank johnson was ok.

 

what the hell stats are you looking for? His OPS?

[rawaction]

i actually like paea better than any other nose they've had, so the front seven are as good as ever, imo.

 

You're nuts. Harris was a beast and Tank Johnson was actually quite good for a year.

 

You are honestly the only person I've heard suggest anything other than Urlacher isn't as good as he was at his peak. The team doesn't even pretend that is the case.

 

prove it then, and how is the team "not pretending" that that is the case? saying that they're not pretending that's the case doesn't mean anything, it's literally empty conjecture. his stats haven't suffered and he's done what he's done all of his career in coverage, so there's no real proof that he's lost a step. i'd wager that most of it is perception because he's 34 years old.

 

harris was a 3-technique interior lineman. he didn't play the same position as paea. tank johnson was ok.

 

The team isn't pretending, or else he would be re-signed to a contract beyond this year. His stats have suffered. He doesn't get as many pass deflections as in the past. He doesn't rush the passer as well. He doesn't force fumbles like he used to. He doesn't make plays behind the line of scrimmage like he used to. The overall ranking/performance of the pass D has suffered.

[Banedon]

he had 3 INT's last year, and he gets them because of his physical ability to cover the entire middle of the field.

 

How do you differentiate his physical ability from his ability to read a scheme and correctly guess/jump a route?

[Magnetic Curses]

i actually like paea better than any other nose they've had, so the front seven are as good as ever, imo.

 

You're nuts. Harris was a beast and Tank Johnson was actually quite good for a year.

 

You are honestly the only person I've heard suggest anything other than Urlacher isn't as good as he was at his peak. The team doesn't even pretend that is the case.

 

prove it then, and how is the team "not pretending" that that is the case? saying that they're not pretending that's the case doesn't mean anything, it's literally empty conjecture. his stats haven't suffered and he's done what he's done all of his career in coverage, so there's no real proof that he's lost a step. i'd wager that most of it is perception because he's 34 years old.

 

harris was a 3-technique interior lineman. he didn't play the same position as paea. tank johnson was ok.

 

what the hell stats are you looking for? His OPS?

 

do you want to have a discussion or do you want to make faux-exasperated statements?

 

THE BEARS WERE THE BEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE AGAINST THE RUN LAST YEAR. i don't know how much plainer it can get when making the case for their front 7 being as good as ever.

 

and now to watch gooney run back-flipping into the night

[Magnetic Curses]

he had 3 INT's last year, and he gets them because of his physical ability to cover the entire middle of the field.

 

How do you differentiate his physical ability from his ability to read a scheme and correctly guess/jump a route?

 

indeed, how do you?

[Magnetic Curses]

i actually like paea better than any other nose they've had, so the front seven are as good as ever, imo.

 

You're nuts. Harris was a beast and Tank Johnson was actually quite good for a year.

 

You are honestly the only person I've heard suggest anything other than Urlacher isn't as good as he was at his peak. The team doesn't even pretend that is the case.

 

prove it then, and how is the team "not pretending" that that is the case? saying that they're not pretending that's the case doesn't mean anything, it's literally empty conjecture. his stats haven't suffered and he's done what he's done all of his career in coverage, so there's no real proof that he's lost a step. i'd wager that most of it is perception because he's 34 years old.

 

harris was a 3-technique interior lineman. he didn't play the same position as paea. tank johnson was ok.

 

The team isn't pretending, or else he would be re-signed to a contract beyond this year. His stats have suffered. He doesn't get as many pass deflections as in the past. He doesn't rush the passer as well. He doesn't force fumbles like he used to. He doesn't make plays behind the line of scrimmage like he used to. The overall ranking/performance of the pass D has suffered.

 

all that tells me is that the team is anticipating decline in the years after the age of 35. there is no proof of immediate decline.

 

the pass d has suffered because teams can't run on them. and despite the fact that teams pass a ton on them (which again, cements the author's assertion that the front 7 is as good as it ever has been), they're still 9th against tight ends.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Stannis

[rawaction]

he had 3 INT's last year, and he gets them because of his physical ability to cover the entire middle of the field.

 

How do you differentiate his physical ability from his ability to read a scheme and correctly guess/jump a route?

 

The key to me is pass deflections and safety results when it comes to pass coverage. Urlacher isn't getting deep enough anymore to knock deep passes into the air for his safeties to pick off and return (Briggs is actually doing a decent job of this). And the safeties have been a disaster since Urlacher's brilliant 2006 and 2007 seasons. The only year the safeties have played at an acceptable level since 2007 was 2010, when Urlacher had a really good comeback year after a year off with no wear-and-tear on his legs.

[rawaction]

i actually like paea better than any other nose they've had, so the front seven are as good as ever, imo.

 

You're nuts. Harris was a beast and Tank Johnson was actually quite good for a year.

 

You are honestly the only person I've heard suggest anything other than Urlacher isn't as good as he was at his peak. The team doesn't even pretend that is the case.

 

prove it then, and how is the team "not pretending" that that is the case? saying that they're not pretending that's the case doesn't mean anything, it's literally empty conjecture. his stats haven't suffered and he's done what he's done all of his career in coverage, so there's no real proof that he's lost a step. i'd wager that most of it is perception because he's 34 years old.

 

harris was a 3-technique interior lineman. he didn't play the same position as paea. tank johnson was ok.

 

The team isn't pretending, or else he would be re-signed to a contract beyond this year. His stats have suffered. He doesn't get as many pass deflections as in the past. He doesn't rush the passer as well. He doesn't force fumbles like he used to. He doesn't make plays behind the line of scrimmage like he used to. The overall ranking/performance of the pass D has suffered.

 

all that tells me is that the team is anticipating decline in the years after the age of 35. there is no proof of immediate decline.

 

The first sentence could tell you that, but the rest are the stats you asked for that are declining. What else do you want? That's goony's point. Even if you think our reasoning is simply because he's 34....since when is that not a valid reason for assumption that a football player has lost a step?