Hoyer coming to Chicago

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Stop being weird.

 

Coming from the guy who threatened to fire bomb Australia. Come to think of it, I havn't seen Truffle around here since that threat. What did you do Kyle?

[CubColtPacer]

Do we really want Fleita running anything?

 

Isn't he a big part of the problem with the lack of any sort of instruction in the direction of patience in our lower levels (in fact, the opposite of such)?

 

Not to mention what seems like overly aggressive promotion of our minor leaguers (sometimes it works out, but a lot of times it doesn't). But maybe I'm pegging those things on the wrong guy.

 

I'd have a hard time thinking of many examples of people who were really hurt by the aggressive promotions, but maybe they are out there. Fleita is definitely in charge of that though as well as somewhat dictating a minor league philosophy. He probably shouldn't be running the whole player development program although they can probably find a better role for him.

[Guest]

Do we really want Fleita running anything?

 

Isn't he a big part of the problem with the lack of any sort of instruction in the direction of patience in our lower levels (in fact, the opposite of such)?

 

Not to mention what seems like overly aggressive promotion of our minor leaguers (sometimes it works out, but a lot of times it doesn't). But maybe I'm pegging those things on the wrong guy.

 

I'd have a hard time thinking of many examples of people who were really hurt by the aggressive promotions, but maybe they are out there. Fleita is definitely in charge of that though as well as somewhat dictating a minor league philosophy. He probably shouldn't be running the whole player development program although they can probably find a better role for him.

 

Why not just find no role for him (I know it's kinda late to bark up that tree since they signed him)? What does he do especially well?

[C.C.]

Do we really want Fleita running anything?

 

Isn't he a big part of the problem with the lack of any sort of instruction in the direction of patience in our lower levels (in fact, the opposite of such)?

 

Not to mention what seems like overly aggressive promotion of our minor leaguers (sometimes it works out, but a lot of times it doesn't). But maybe I'm pegging those things on the wrong guy.

 

I'd have a hard time thinking of many examples of people who were really hurt by the aggressive promotions, but maybe they are out there. Fleita is definitely in charge of that though as well as somewhat dictating a minor league philosophy. He probably shouldn't be running the whole player development program although they can probably find a better role for him.

 

Why not just find no role for him (I know it's kinda late to bark up that tree since they signed him)? What does he do especially well?

 

I'm not sure if anyone knows that.

[KingCubsFan]

Do we really want Fleita running anything?

 

Isn't he a big part of the problem with the lack of any sort of instruction in the direction of patience in our lower levels (in fact, the opposite of such)?

 

Not to mention what seems like overly aggressive promotion of our minor leaguers (sometimes it works out, but a lot of times it doesn't). But maybe I'm pegging those things on the wrong guy.

 

I'd have a hard time thinking of many examples of people who were really hurt by the aggressive promotions, but maybe they are out there. Fleita is definitely in charge of that though as well as somewhat dictating a minor league philosophy. He probably shouldn't be running the whole player development program although they can probably find a better role for him.

 

Why not just find no role for him (I know it's kinda late to bark up that tree since they signed him)? What does he do especially well?

I think he ran the Latin American operations when we got Zambrano, Cruz, Guzman (even though he was originally signed by the Royals), etc. With Ricketts actually giving some real money to signing international free agents, maybe he'd be good at that.

[Sammy Sofa]

Do we really want Fleita running anything?

 

Isn't he a big part of the problem with the lack of any sort of instruction in the direction of patience in our lower levels (in fact, the opposite of such)?

 

Not to mention what seems like overly aggressive promotion of our minor leaguers (sometimes it works out, but a lot of times it doesn't). But maybe I'm pegging those things on the wrong guy.

 

I'd have a hard time thinking of many examples of people who were really hurt by the aggressive promotions, but maybe they are out there. Fleita is definitely in charge of that though as well as somewhat dictating a minor league philosophy. He probably shouldn't be running the whole player development program although they can probably find a better role for him.

 

Why not just find no role for him (I know it's kinda late to bark up that tree since they signed him)? What does he do especially well?

 

His name sounds like some kind of delicious breakfast platter.

[mul21]

 

Why not just find no role for him (I know it's kinda late to bark up that tree since they signed him)? What does he do especially well?

 

I have a feeling he has relationships with people in Latin America that are probably pretty important to the Cubs continuing to be able to sign pretty highly regarded guys from down there. I think they need to make sure he's treated well so they don't burn any bridges, but at the same time, him having less influence on the minor league instructional philosophy is something I'd like to see as well. He's got to be the guy most responsible for the aggressive approach they've been preaching for years now.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Do we really want Fleita running anything?

 

Isn't he a big part of the problem with the lack of any sort of instruction in the direction of patience in our lower levels (in fact, the opposite of such)?

 

Not to mention what seems like overly aggressive promotion of our minor leaguers (sometimes it works out, but a lot of times it doesn't). But maybe I'm pegging those things on the wrong guy.

 

I'd have a hard time thinking of many examples of people who were really hurt by the aggressive promotions, but maybe they are out there. Fleita is definitely in charge of that though as well as somewhat dictating a minor league philosophy. He probably shouldn't be running the whole player development program although they can probably find a better role for him.

 

Why not just find no role for him (I know it's kinda late to bark up that tree since they signed him)? What does he do especially well?

 

His name sounds like some kind of delicious breakfast platter.

 

I was thinking Sushi. I was shocked when I learned he was a garden variety white guy.

[Sammy Sofa]

That's Xavier Nady/Reggie Willits/Khalil Greene-syndrome.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Reggie Willits is white?

[Magnetic Curses]

.....in latin america, which i said is a good place for fleita.

 

wilken may be more likely to quit than be fired. he'll find working with mcleod and hoyer to be quite a bit different than working with hendry, i'm sure of that. these guys are here to build an organization, and foster change from top-to-bottom, it may be that wilken won't like how his role has been reduced or compromised as the frat boys get to do their thing.

 

I'm sure Wilken understands that there will be changes under the new management. I'm sure he can adapt. I get the whole "he's a mangy curmudgeon stuck on the Old Ways....They're the number crunching wave of the future...He don't believe in no stinkin numbers...They believe the numbers can tell a pretty detailed story...Something's got to give! Eh? E? Eh?" storyline, but I just don't think it's that dramatic. I do think the storyline needs to exist as logically neither guy will stay too long under new management (maybe 3 years tops for the longest between the two of them), but I don't think it's because they'll struggle to survive and thrive in the new dramatically different ground breaking numbers crunching Cubs FO.

 

I do agree that Wilken will walk out on his own accord. Not due to frustration or anything like that. He'll quit because he's old and in a couple of years the farm system he's been building will start having the reputation and results they've been working towards anyway, which is all that will matter (since a whole lot of younger people will get the most of the credit anyway). But yeah...overall I expect Fleita and Wilken to do alright under their new, much more intelligent and perceptive bosses.

 

you certainly get very defensive when anyone says anything about either guy. fleita certainly hasn't been successful (and the little success he's had he's had specifically in latin america, where i'm suggesting he should stay) with the cubs and wilken has had mixed results at best--1 good draft out of how many doesn't necessarily instill confidence in me. that's just strange why you'd feel such a need to protect them from any and all criticism.

 

hoyer basically turned the padres minor league system around in one year, i doubt the roles of two relics left around from the days of hendry will remain intact based on the revolution that is happening inside the organization. regardless of how amazingly successful fleita and wilken have been since their time here.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Stannis

[jersey cubs fan]

I'd have a hard time thinking of many examples of people who were really hurt by the aggressive promotions, but maybe they are out there.

 

It's not just specific people who were hurt by aggressive promotions (although Josh Vitters trade value probably was), but there weren't people helped by it either. Aggressively moving guys along when they didn't need to be and had little to gain from it has contributed to a lackluster minor league system.

[Sammy Sofa]

Reggie Willits is white?

 

Insanity, I know.

[treebird]

Reggie Willits is white?

 

as white as i assume howie kendrick to be

[Magnetic Curses]

like jamal black

[C.C.]

Are they going to announce his signing today? Presser?

[Sammy Sofa]

Reggie Willits is white?

 

as white as i assume howie kendrick to be

 

Ryan Howard sounds like the whitest dork who ever dorked.

[CubColtPacer]

I'd have a hard time thinking of many examples of people who were really hurt by the aggressive promotions, but maybe they are out there.

 

It's not just specific people who were hurt by aggressive promotions (although Josh Vitters trade value probably was), but there weren't people helped by it either. Aggressively moving guys along when they didn't need to be and had little to gain from it has contributed to a lackluster minor league system.

 

I'd be fine with the Cubs switching to a more patient approach, but I fail to see where it's contributed to the lackluster system. It's had its high points and low points. It does hurt the trade value of somebody like Vitters, but it also gets Castro to the majors 2-3 years ahead of where he would have been in another system. It's a tradeoff that IMO hasn't really hurt the system overall. If there were guys left and right failing because they were rushed then the trade becomes not worth it, but I don't see that happening in the Cubs system right now.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'd be fine with the Cubs switching to a more patient approach, but I fail to see where it's contributed to the lackluster system.

 

The system is lackluster and aggressive promotions is a part of the system.

[mul21]

I'd be fine with the Cubs switching to a more patient approach, but I fail to see where it's contributed to the lackluster system.

 

The system is lackluster and aggressive promotions is a part of the system.

 

The system is lackluster because of a lack of overslots, taking some chances early, and not spending jack in Latin America for several years. Combine that with a few guys being traded or not panning out, and I think you have a much better case for saying aggressive promotions haven't hurt in any significant way than arguing they have.

[Guest]

 

I was thinking Sushi. I was shocked when I learned he was a garden variety white guy.

 

 

Yea, he's a white Cuban guy, like me.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'd be fine with the Cubs switching to a more patient approach, but I fail to see where it's contributed to the lackluster system.

 

The system is lackluster and aggressive promotions is a part of the system.

 

The system is lackluster because of a lack of overslots, taking some chances early, and not spending jack in Latin America for several years. Combine that with a few guys being traded or not panning out, and I think you have a much better case for saying aggressive promotions haven't hurt in any significant way than arguing they have.

 

It's all part of the system. It isn't the main issue, nobody is saying that. But unnecessary promotions are not helpful

[CubColtPacer]

I'd be fine with the Cubs switching to a more patient approach, but I fail to see where it's contributed to the lackluster system.

 

The system is lackluster and aggressive promotions is a part of the system.

 

And? That's like the sportswriters saying that the Cubs were lackluster, and Garza was a part of the Cubs so therefore he must not have helped. That's very poor logic. There are many things contributing to the system being lackluster, but without specific evidence its hard to say that aggressive promotions is one of them. The players who have been promoted aggressively as a whole haven't done that badly.

 

Now, there could be something to the theory that the Cubs being a large market team need prospects to have less development time in the majors and so should spend more time in the minors. That's especially true of pitchers so that they don't burn up their option years too quickly. I could see that being a pretty good reason to switch to a more patient approach. But that's more about the Cubs specific needs and is not a reason why the Cubs system is mediocre.

[treebird]

 

I was thinking Sushi. I was shocked when I learned he was a garden variety white guy.

 

 

Yea, he's a white Cuban guy, like me.

 

i was a cuban guy too but i gotta say i'm pretty sold on ricketts now

[treebird]

 

I was thinking Sushi. I was shocked when I learned he was a garden variety white guy.

 

 

Yea, he's a white Cuban guy, like me.

 

i was a cuban guy too but i gotta say i'm pretty sold on ricketts now

 

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