What players do we actually want to keep off current roster?

[Little Slide Rooter]

I like the idea of trading Byrd instead of just letting him walk next year. You could fool some team into thinking he's worth giving up value for.

 

Yeah. He's cheap and productive, but not in our post 2012 plans. No harm in keeping him, but if any team wants to offer up anything resembling a top prospect for him, take it in a heartbeat. If we keep him, and we're not contending by July, get what we can.

[davearm2]

 

Which side of this are you on? In favor of keeping Byrd or trading him?

 

In favor of pointing out flawed arguments.

 

 

And indifferent on Byrd staying. If they can trade him for something like an even slightly valuable minor leaguer, go ahead.

The entire roster needs to be evaluated as follows:

 

"Can [player x] be a key contributor on the next Cubs contender?"

 

Whoever you say "no" or even "probably not" to, needs to go in exchange for a prospect that conceivably could contribute down the road. Marlon Byrd is the perfect example.

 

(Now some will say "the next Cubs contender" can be next year. Naturally, where you fall on that question will greatly influence this exercise.)

[Little Slide Rooter]

I think the Cubs could be contenders next year with the right filling in of the blanks.

 

1. Jackson CF

2. Castro SS

3. ________ (Ramirez?)

4. ________ (Fielder/Pujols?)

5. Byrd RF

6. Soriano LF

7. Soto C

8. Barney/DeWitt/LeMa/Baker 2B

 

SP _________

SP Garza

SP Dempster

SP Z or __________

SP Wells/Casher

 

CL Marmol'

RP Marshall

RP Shark

RP Carpenter

RP Beliveau

RP Dolis

RP Russell

 

C Castillo/Clevenger

IF Barney/LeMa/Baker/DeWitt/Flaherty X 2

OF Colvin/Lahair

OFCampana/Montanez/________

[seattlecub]

As for Byrd, one thing to consider is that he's currently projected as a Type A free agent based off his past two years, so there's a chance he could be a type A after next year as well, and if not (and barring injury) he'd almost certainly net at least a sandwich pick (assuming compensation remains the same in the next CBA). All in all, I'm OK with him staying or being traded, but if he's traded I'd like to see him fetch at least the value of that compensation pick — and see that money spent cleaning up in the draft/IFA, or to get top-flight free agents.

[jersey cubs fan]

As for Byrd, one thing to consider is that he's currently projected as a Type A free agent based off his past two years, so there's a chance he could be a type A after next year as well, and if not (and barring injury) he'd almost certainly net at least a sandwich pick (assuming compensation remains the same in the next CBA). All in all, I'm OK with him staying or being traded, but if he's traded I'd like to see him fetch at least the value of that compensation pick — and see that money spent cleaning up in the draft/IFA, or to get top-flight free agents.

 

I'm not sure he's the type of guy you offer arbitration to. At that point he may actually be taking up space that could be used for somebody else. He'll be 35 and potentially coming off back to back disappointing seasons.

[toonsterwu]

This was brought up in the Theo thread and I think it deserves it's own thread personally. When asking this, I also mean take into account what the player's situations are contractually, along with how they're producing.

 

 

Here's my list of hitters I don't want to see dealt away right now

 

Castro

Soto

Soriano(because of how much it'd probably cost to move him obviously)

Campana

Colvin(if he even makes the team)

LeMahieu

 

I don't see Aramis returning and if it was on a 3-4 year deal, I'm not thinking I'd want him anyway. If we decide not to go after one of the big boys at 1b, then Pena is solid enough to have back, on another 1 year deal. Byrd is totally tradeable and hope we look into what he's worth to soneone else. If Barney could net us something decent, I'd move him. But, if we suddenly look at him as a backup and not as a starter, then I'm throwing him on the keeper list. Baker and DeWitt? Don't really care one way or the other honestly. Would probably rather LeMahieu and Flaherty show enough to make them expendable, but keeping one may be necessary.

 

Pitchers are as follows

 

Garza

Cashner

Samardzija

Russell

Wood

Marmol(needs to rebound)

 

 

Did NOT forget Marshall either. Think he'll be gone or overpaid by the time we're truly contending and we could get a ransom for him as well. I just don't think of Randy Wells as anything more than average and now that he's entering his arb years, his value goes away, if you ask me. Dempster is probably necessary to have around, but if we're out of it, I hope he's dealt, because again, I don't trust him heading into his upper 30's. If Z is dealt away and we can save some money off his deal and put it back into the system, then I'm fine with that scenario.

 

Kind of rushed through this, didn't include any minor leaguers at all, but can get in depth later, if necessary.

 

Honestly, the state of the franchise is such that I don't think there should be any untouchables. There should be guys that are more costly than others, but there's some restructuring that needs to be done.

 

Now, from a personal opinion, there's only a handful of guys that I don't want to see gone yet. Starlin Castro tops that list, as I still believe he can be passable at shortstop while adding power. I still think we might be looking at a Robinson Cano level hitter a few years down the road. I just don't see any team offering enough to justify us moving him, but you never know I guess.

 

And ... that's it. From a positional perspective, off of the current 40, Castro is the only guy I'd rather not move. Soto will likely not be a part of the next core. If they get a good deal (hey ... Boston could use a catcher), go for it.

 

In terms of pitching, Garza is one you try to keep around. Now, if a team throws an arm and 2 legs at you, and honestly, some team might considering the thin pitching market, Garza's strong year, his age, and the fact that he's cost-controlled, then you think about it. But finding that TOR arm is difficult, so it'd have to be a heck of a deal. After that? Um ... I guess Cashner would be in that next tier, after Castro/Garza, but I'm legitimately concerned that he won't be that starting caliber arm. I doubt anyone gives us enough to justify moving him, considering he's coming off injury.

 

Everyone else, I'm open to moving for the right deal. Not that I'm expecting it, but they aren't guys I'd be concerned with giving up if a solid deal came about. Keeping guys like Marshall/Wood/Dempster around for veteran leadership is nice, but not necessary.

 

No one's really untouchable in the farm, but only way I deal Brett Jackson is if it's for other young talent. There's lower level talent I'm intrigued with, but not untouchable.

 

It's a new era, and the focus should be on developing that next core. Just not sure there's that many pieces on the big league level that scream, "keep me, damnit."

[SouthSideRyan]

As for Byrd, one thing to consider is that he's currently projected as a Type A free agent based off his past two years, so there's a chance he could be a type A after next year as well, and if not (and barring injury) he'd almost certainly net at least a sandwich pick (assuming compensation remains the same in the next CBA). All in all, I'm OK with him staying or being traded, but if he's traded I'd like to see him fetch at least the value of that compensation pick — and see that money spent cleaning up in the draft/IFA, or to get top-flight free agents.

 

I'm not sure he's the type of guy you offer arbitration to. At that point he may actually be taking up space that could be used for somebody else. He'll be 35 and potentially coming off back to back disappointing seasons.

 

I'd imagine Byrd would be getting his last multi-year deal after this season. Can't see him accepting arb.

[Sammy Sofa]

As for Byrd, one thing to consider is that he's currently projected as a Type A free agent based off his past two years, so there's a chance he could be a type A after next year as well, and if not (and barring injury) he'd almost certainly net at least a sandwich pick (assuming compensation remains the same in the next CBA). All in all, I'm OK with him staying or being traded, but if he's traded I'd like to see him fetch at least the value of that compensation pick — and see that money spent cleaning up in the draft/IFA, or to get top-flight free agents.

 

I'm not sure he's the type of guy you offer arbitration to. At that point he may actually be taking up space that could be used for somebody else. He'll be 35 and potentially coming off back to back disappointing seasons.

 

I'd imagine Byrd would be getting his last multi-year deal after this season. Can't see him accepting arb.

 

Right. I guess I could see him accepting it if he has a terrible year and it looks nobody will really be interested in anything beyond a 1-year-deal.

 

And in no way am I saying Byrd is untouchable from being traded; I just didn't get the earlier posts that seemed to be saying that he "needed to be gone" ASAP.

[C.C.]

I think the Cubs could be contenders next year with the right filling in of the blanks.

 

1. Jackson CF

2. Castro SS

3. ________ (Ramirez?)

4. ________ (Fielder/Pujols?)

5. Byrd RF

6. Soriano LF

7. Soto C

8. Barney/DeWitt/LeMa/Baker 2B

 

SP _________

SP Garza

SP Dempster

SP Z or __________

SP Wells/Casher

 

CL Marmol'

RP Marshall

RP Shark

RP Carpenter

RP Beliveau

RP Dolis

RP Russell

 

C Castillo/Clevenger

IF Barney/LeMa/Baker/DeWitt/Flaherty X 2

OF Colvin/Lahair

OFCampana/Montanez/________

 

And with (hopefully) Pujols and Fielder leaving why not us? I still gotta feeling Pujols is going to stay. How many big market teams need a first baseman besides us?

[17 Seconds]

i want kelly johnson for 2b

[toonsterwu]

i want kelly johnson for 2b

 

Honestly intrigued with that idea as well. As a sleeper at 3rd base, I'm somewhat curious about Kouzmanoff. Not in love with it, but there aren't a ton of great options and he's always shown better power away (as he's played in pitcher friendly home parks for his career). Kubel in RF would somewhat intrigue me as well if the price was okay.

[jersey cubs fan]

As for Byrd, one thing to consider is that he's currently projected as a Type A free agent based off his past two years, so there's a chance he could be a type A after next year as well, and if not (and barring injury) he'd almost certainly net at least a sandwich pick (assuming compensation remains the same in the next CBA). All in all, I'm OK with him staying or being traded, but if he's traded I'd like to see him fetch at least the value of that compensation pick — and see that money spent cleaning up in the draft/IFA, or to get top-flight free agents.

 

I'm not sure he's the type of guy you offer arbitration to. At that point he may actually be taking up space that could be used for somebody else. He'll be 35 and potentially coming off back to back disappointing seasons.

 

I'd imagine Byrd would be getting his last multi-year deal after this season. Can't see him accepting arb.

 

Sure, if he has a decent season he might get a new 2-3 year deal next offseason. But at this stage of the game, I think I'd prefer to deal him elsewhere, let them think about the potential for compensation picks in 2013, and get something else of value today. I'm not enthusiastic about playing out 2012 with the hopes that he will be good enough to justify offering arbitration to. He was a pretty bad player before he broke out in Texas. And since that significant improvement he has been in decline. He's entering his mid-30's and has probably given you almost all of his value already. I don't see teams knocking down his door to give him a multi-year deal and give the Cubs a draft pick unless he has a significantly resurgent season.

[mul21]

 

Sure, if he has a decent season he might get a new 2-3 year deal next offseason. But at this stage of the game, I think I'd prefer to deal him elsewhere, let them think about the potential for compensation picks in 2013, and get something else of value today. I'm not enthusiastic about playing out 2012 with the hopes that he will be good enough to justify offering arbitration to. He was a pretty bad player before he broke out in Texas. And since that significant improvement he has been in decline. He's entering his mid-30's and has probably given you almost all of his value already. I don't see teams knocking down his door to give him a multi-year deal and give the Cubs a draft pick unless he has a significantly resurgent season.

 

I think that may be more likely than most might think. Didn't he have a pretty consistent record of excelling while not playing more than about 130 games? You get somebody in here to manage that will actually acknowledge that and he probably has a bit of a bounce back year just by not playing as much. Plus, if he's not stupidly stuck in the 3 spot (yes, I know it doesn't matter) in higher pressure situations, that may help as well.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think that may be more likely than most might think. Didn't he have a pretty consistent record of excelling while not playing more than about 130 games? You get somebody in here to manage that will actually acknowledge that and he probably has a bit of a bounce back year just by not playing as much. Plus, if he's not stupidly stuck in the 3 spot (yes, I know it doesn't matter) in higher pressure situations, that may help as well.

 

If there is one thing Marlon Byrd didn't have it was a good track record. He was kind of bad through his age 28 season, then surged in his 29-31 seasons in Texas. He's 34 now and turns 35 during next season.

 

If you have Byrd/Colvin/Soriano platooning in LF and RF next year, it could help some, but that also means Tyler Colvin is going to be playing a hell of a lot, and that's not necessarily something I'd like to see.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I definitely want Jackson to be the everyday CFer from day 1.

 

I think you can do something like

CF Jackson

SS Castro

FA 1b

RF Byrd

LF Soriano

3b Platoon (Baker plus a veteran FA on a short-term deal?)

C Soto

2b Barney

 

Rotation of Garza/Dempster/FA pitcher/Wells/Cashner with at least one more veteran FA to back up Cashner if he doesn't work out or his arm gets tired.

 

That team looks .500ish to me, with the chance to make the playoffs with good health and good breaks. Of course, that depends a lot on who the FA 1b is.

[Tracer Bullet]

 

Which side of this are you on? In favor of keeping Byrd or trading him?

 

In favor of pointing out flawed arguments.

 

 

And indifferent on Byrd staying. If they can trade him for something like an even slightly valuable minor leaguer, go ahead.

 

?

 

I was just trying to figure out if you thought he needed to be moved. N&G questioned the 'need' and you asked him why not. So I was looking for clarification.

[Tracer Bullet]

Any chance Ramirez decides he'd rather stay with Theo at the helm? Or are we convinced we can't afford him and a Prince/Pujols at 1b?

[Sammy Sofa]

Any chance Ramirez decides he'd rather stay with Theo at the helm? Or are we convinced we can't afford him and a Prince/Pujols at 1b?

 

If he's serious about wanting to stay if it looks like they're trying to contend maybe he'd be willing to sign on the (relative) cheap with the Theo pick and, ideally, a signing of Pujols or Fielder. He took a pretty decent discount before, so maybe he'd be willing to do again. Sure would be awesome.

[C.C.]

Any chance Ramirez decides he'd rather stay with Theo at the helm? Or are we convinced we can't afford him and a Prince/Pujols at 1b?

 

If he's serious about wanting to stay if it looks like they're trying to contend maybe he'd be willing to sign on the (relative) cheap with the Theo pick and, ideally, a signing of Pujols or Fielder. He took a pretty decent discount before, so maybe he'd be willing to do again. Sure would be awesome.

 

This is his chance at one last big contract. He's cashing out.

[Sammy Sofa]

Any chance Ramirez decides he'd rather stay with Theo at the helm? Or are we convinced we can't afford him and a Prince/Pujols at 1b?

 

If he's serious about wanting to stay if it looks like they're trying to contend maybe he'd be willing to sign on the (relative) cheap with the Theo pick and, ideally, a signing of Pujols or Fielder. He took a pretty decent discount before, so maybe he'd be willing to do again. Sure would be awesome.

 

This is his chance at one last big contract. He's cashing out.

 

Don't be too sure. Everyone expected him to either jump ship or break the bank if he came back for 2007 and neither happened.

[C.C.]

Any chance Ramirez decides he'd rather stay with Theo at the helm? Or are we convinced we can't afford him and a Prince/Pujols at 1b?

 

If he's serious about wanting to stay if it looks like they're trying to contend maybe he'd be willing to sign on the (relative) cheap with the Theo pick and, ideally, a signing of Pujols or Fielder. He took a pretty decent discount before, so maybe he'd be willing to do again. Sure would be awesome.

 

This is his chance at one last big contract. He's cashing out.

 

Don't be too sure. Everyone expected him to either jump ship or break the bank if he came back for 2007 and neither happened.

 

There's a reason why he left a clause in his contract. Sure he went on the cheap last time, but he did so with a back door. If anyone outbids us he's as good as gone.

[Sammy Sofa]

Not necessarily. He could still get a better deal with the Cubs than getting that last year.

 

Didn't he also have an opt-out clause after 2006?

[C.C.]

I hope you are right.

[Sammy Sofa]

Me too. It's a long shot, but I'd love to see Aramis finish his career here for the right price/years. The guy has easily been my favorite long-term Cubs in my lifetime besides Sammy.

[UMFan83]

i want kelly johnson for 2b

 

I was just putting together a random team filled with the players I want to keep from the current Cubs and fill in the rest with soley FAs just for fun, and the Kelly Johnson/Jeff Baker platoon really warmed my heart. Johnson actually hits slightly better against Lefties over his career but whatever, Baker can sub at other positions too as a platoon guy.

 

If we can get an .815 combined OPS at 2B i'd be thrilled.