Re: Darvish

[davell]

Sign Fielder and the Cubans and hope to hell your pitching doesn't suck.

Ok, so then what? No pitching for this year? What are your contracts for these 3?

 

He'd have Matt Garza and whoever's in the system instead of Edwin Jackson and Bruce Chen. Oh no!

Awesome. What makes this smartass comment even better is I'm talking about Wei Yin Chen. Bruce Chen is already signed. As for Jackson, he's not ideal either, but he's 28 and has been an 11.2 WAR pitcher for the past 3 seasons with a low of 3.6. But yeah, your response was great, way to go man!

 

So is he wrong? I don't think you're really getting a net gain from Jackson and Chen v. Garza and Cashner/Samardzija/etc.

This isn't about 2012. At all. But yes, the prospects you'd get for Garza, Chen, and Jackson has more value than Garza and Cashner/Shark/etc. Especially since you still have those guys as well around. You'd have Jackson and Chen as middle rotation guys, maybe Shark or Cashner is in the rotation. As what, who knows? But, you've also got a probable top 25 to 50 prospect to plug in somewhere as well, along with a ton of money where, if you want, you have the ability to go get whatever is out there.

[davell]

Does the difference in Chens really change things in terms of pitching for next year?

Are we going to the playoffs in 2012, with everything that's off the board already? I don't see it.

[Guest]

So is he wrong? I don't think you're really getting a net gain from Jackson and Chen v. Garza and Cashner/Samardzija/etc.

This isn't about 2012. At all. But yes, the prospects you'd get for Garza, Chen, and Jackson has more value than Garza and Cashner/Shark/etc. Especially since you still have those guys as well around. You'd have Jackson and Chen as middle rotation guys, maybe Shark or Cashner is in the rotation. As what, who knows? But, you've also got a probable top 25 to 50 prospect to plug in somewhere as well, along with a ton of money where, if you want, you have the ability to go get whatever is out there.

 

You were the one worried about the pitching for 2012 in jersey's suggestion.

[bukie]

An interesting article at Grantland on the MLB Prospect Bubble, suggesting that teams aren't getting good prospect value by trading away good major league players anymore.

[davell]

So is he wrong? I don't think you're really getting a net gain from Jackson and Chen v. Garza and Cashner/Samardzija/etc.

This isn't about 2012. At all. But yes, the prospects you'd get for Garza, Chen, and Jackson has more value than Garza and Cashner/Shark/etc. Especially since you still have those guys as well around. You'd have Jackson and Chen as middle rotation guys, maybe Shark or Cashner is in the rotation. As what, who knows? But, you've also got a probable top 25 to 50 prospect to plug in somewhere as well, along with a ton of money where, if you want, you have the ability to go get whatever is out there.

 

You were the one worried about the pitching for 2012 in jersey's suggestion.

Yeah, you're right. Because he's basically trying to compete in 2012. I think it's better to go ahead and let 2012 pass us by. I'm not sold on Prince being our best option, now that we've not added a frontline pitcher. Nor do I think Cespedes is going to be an answer for us, especially with the Yankees targeting him, Marlins as well. Soler? Damn right, he's probably the only guy I'm sold on as a "must get". But, if I'm looking longterm, adding Rizzo could possibly work out great and give us that much more money to spend elsewhere. I wanted Darvish and Prince, but now if we switch gears and build differently, I'm OK with it and I definitely think it can be done very quickly.

[Guest]

Yea, my preferred option at this point is to dump any and all assets (short of Castro) for prospects within a year of the ML level...obviously operating under the assumption that we'd get fair value in return or better.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yeah, you're right. Because he's basically trying to compete in 2012. I think it's better to go ahead and let 2012 pass us by.

 

I just think that is a ridiculous strategy to take.

[davell]

To explain a bit more as to why I'm kind of switching gears on Prince, my reasons are because I don't see us contending in 2012 now. And with the AL teams involved, I see him getting an 8 year deal. He's excellent and I think he will be for another 3 or 4 years. His dropoff could be gradual or steep, I have no clue, nor does anyone else. But, since I don't see us competing in 2012, it gives us a 3 or 4 year window of his best production, with lots to do in the next year to take true advantage of him at his best. If we can get Rizzo and he becomes 80% of Ryan Howard, then we've got that much more money to spend elsewhere and have an extra bigtime player as well. I still think we need 4 guys, but by adding Rizzo and maybe some stud pitching prospect as well, we could still get the 4, plus have more as well.

[Guest]

What sucks is how crappy the position player FA market will be next year. But at least we can open up the purse strings for a pitcher or two, I guess.

[SouthSideRyan]

Yea, my preferred option at this point is to dump any and all assets (short of Castro) for prospects within a year of the ML level...obviously operating under the assumption that we'd get fair value in return or better.

 

We won't get fair value in return if we're only looking for guys who are going to contribute in the next year. Trading everyone but Castro is a terrible enough idea without limiting who you'll take in return.

[davell]

Yeah, you're right. Because he's basically trying to compete in 2012. I think it's better to go ahead and let 2012 pass us by.

 

I just think that is a ridiculous strategy to take.

But, even by technically punting, we'd be able to go get a Beltran andif you don't like Jackson, maybe add an Oswalt on a one year deal. Personally, I like Jackson as a 3 type guy over the next 3 or 4 years, but I certainly see why some may not. I guess you're basically just not wanting to trade Garza, right?

[Sammy Sofa]

What sucks is how crappy the position player FA market will be next year. But at least we can open up the purse strings for a pitcher or two, I guess.

 

Why? Pitchers can fall off of a cliff, they're really expensive, the Cubs won't be that much closer to competing, their offense will still su-OH, HEY, IT'S PRETTY MUCH ALL THE REASONS JERKS SAY TO NOT SPEND THIS YEAR YET AGAIN. Nice self-defeating scenario you've created, dicks.

[Guest]

Yea, my preferred option at this point is to dump any and all assets (short of Castro) for prospects within a year of the ML level...obviously operating under the assumption that we'd get fair value in return or better.

 

We won't get fair value in return if we're only looking for guys who are going to contribute in the next year. Trading everyone but Castro is a terrible enough idea without limiting who you'll take in return.

Maybe I should've said 1-2 years. I just don't want Rookie and low A prospects.

 

Trading Garza is pretty close to trading everyone but Castro anyway. If they can get actual prospects for Marshall and Marmol, I'd do it in a second.

 

Other than that, I'd guess that we'd be better off keeping Soto than expecting to get any sort of fair return. What's left, then...Byrd?

 

If you can get cost controlled complimentary pieces for guys like that, why the hell not?

 

Garza and MAYBE one of the relievers could get us actual high end talent. Obviously if we're talking about good enough prospects, I don't care how old they are or how far away they are.

[SouthSideRyan]

And on the plus side, we can run out a 55 win team next year.

[Guest]

What sucks is how crappy the position player FA market will be next year. But at least we can open up the purse strings for a pitcher or two, I guess.

 

Why? Pitchers can fall off of a cliff, they're really expensive, the Cubs won't be that much closer to competing, their offense will still su-OH, HEY, IT'S PRETTY MUCH ALL THE REASONS JERKS SAY TO NOT SPEND THIS YEAR YET AGAIN. Nice self-defeating scenario you've created, dicks.

 

With CJ, Darvish, and Pujols all off the market, we're pretty much down to one impact option left this year on the FA market.

 

 

And I don't love him, but that's beside the point because I'd still be glad if we got him.

[Guest]

And on the plus side, we can run out a 55 win team next year.

 

So....the alternative is keep those guys and hope we can somehow hit the 75-80 range?

[treebird]

And on the plus side, we can run out a 55 win team next year.

 

double plus side, we can all get realllllllllllly good tickets for $10 on stubhub for every game after august 1st

[Sammy Sofa]

It's insane that we're talking about the Cubs like they're the [expletive] Brewers or some [expletive].

[SouthSideRyan]

And on the plus side, we can run out a 55 win team next year.

 

So....the alternative is keep those guys and hope we can somehow hit the 75-80 range?

 

No, the alternative is to [expletive] improve the team today and tomorrow and hope you can back into the playoffs this year while building towards a favorite in 2013, not to see how high we can get in BA's organizational rankings.

[Guest]

And on the plus side, we can run out a 55 win team next year.

 

So....the alternative is keep those guys and hope we can somehow hit the 75-80 range?

 

No, the alternative is to [expletive] improve the team today and tomorrow and hope you can back into the playoffs this year while building towards a favorite in 2013, not to see how high we can get in BA's organizational rankings.

 

What are the options out there to get this team to just above mediocre enough to win a shitty division next year?

 

Because I was all about that plan when it seemed feasible.

[SouthSideRyan]

Fielder/Jackson/(Francis/Marquis/Piniero) would be a good start for next season, while still allowing budget room for Soler.

[Guest]

Fielder/Jackson/(Francis/Marquis/Piniero) would be a good start for next season, while still allowing budget room for Soler.

 

If we can get Fielder, sure. I'm just speaking based on the fairly likely scenario where we get outbid by an AL (or some random NL) team.

 

Regarding that...it's nice that the Rangers are blowing some of the budget on Darvish, I guess.

 

Our lineup would sure blow, though...

[WilcoFan]

It's insane that we're talking about the Cubs like they're the [expletive] Brewers or some [expletive].

 

 

So much anger...yeesh.

[Sammy Sofa]

LET IT WASH OVER YOU.

[Vinestal]

When do you start getting angry? when the payroll looks like the pirates? I didn't want either of the big name first basemen but bidding 20 mil on Darvish pretty much as me pissed. Wtf are these guys planning on doing to improve the team? Getting other teams mediocre washed up has beens and drafting well is not going to be a productive strategy for winning before their contracts are up and there will be plenty of people calling for their heads if it hasn't happened by then.