can we talk about Starlin Castro?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

i am a sad crap of an argument.

I didn't feel like quoting your entire post to make fun of your post.

[TheClash]

UBB Rates

 

2010 H1 - 6.1%

2010 H2 - 3.2%

2011 H1 - 3.8%

2011 H2 - 5.7%

2012 H1 - 2.8%

2012 H2 - 6.5%

 

Random ebbs and flows guys. Random ebbs and flows.

[Cubswin11]

UBB Rates

 

2010 H1 - 6.1%

2010 H2 - 3.2%

2011 H1 - 3.8%

2011 H2 - 5.7%

2012 H1 - 2.8%

2012 H2 - 6.5%

 

Random ebbs and flows guys. Random ebbs and flows.

 

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbrbcnxpa81rg2rf7o1_500.gif

 

[treebird]

let's all ignore this guy besmirching the good name of the clash and focus on the fact that whoever sponsored the starlin castro baseball reference page put this up as his ad thing:

 

Matt sponsor(s) this page.

 

If you don't like Starlin Castro, go step on a land mine.

 

GREAT MAN

[TheClash]

I like the argument guys.

[mookie]

You are dragging Fugazi in on this as well?

 

Oh, hell no!

 

:twisted:

[treebird]

You are dragging Fugazi in on this as well?

 

Oh, hell no!

 

:twisted:

 

8.4

[TheClash]

Who the hell is Fugazu

[javy knows my name]

You are dragging Fugazi in on this as well?

 

Oh, hell no!

 

:twisted:

 

YES

[wekse]

Who the hell is Fugazu

 

 

oh [expletive].

[TheClash]

It's nice to see NSBB's Internet meme reddit force is in full circle jerk mode.

[XZero771679666304]

It's nice to see NSBB's Internet meme reddit force is in full circle jerk mode.

 

Whut

[TheClash]

You know posting random pictures, quotes or memes attacking the poster instead of countering my point.

 

It's quite pathetic. You see I make a point about how walk rates for half a season can vary quite erratically, Starlin Castros has done this. Therefore, Castros "improvement" the second half of the season is only mildly encouraging. Of course it's better than not improving, but there's no reason to get excited for a pretty insignificant change over his career norm.

 

 

Of course instead pointing out something intelligent, they act like drunk guys slapping each others back after downing shots

[SABR Gamer]

You know posting random pictures, quotes or memes attacking the poster instead of countering my point.

 

It's quite pathetic. You see I make a point about how walk rates for half a season can vary quite erratically, Starlin Castros has done this. Therefore, Castros "improvement" the second half of the season is only mildly encouraging. Of course it's better than not improving, but there's no reason to get excited for a pretty insignificant change over his career norm.

 

 

Of course instead pointing out something intelligent, they act like drunk guys slapping each others back after downing shots

 

Please stop posting, it would be a service to us all.

[Guest]

You see I make a point about how walk rates for half a season can vary quite erratically, Starlin Castros has done this. Therefore, Castros "improvement" the second half of the season is only mildly encouraging. Of course it's better than not improving, but there's no reason to get excited for a pretty insignificant change over his career norm.

 

"Getting excited" in this case meaning "posting a link to a blog post without comment and without reply before you decried it as being more or less pointless".

[TheClash]

You see I make a point about how walk rates for half a season can vary quite erratically, Starlin Castros has done this. Therefore, Castros "improvement" the second half of the season is only mildly encouraging. Of course it's better than not improving, but there's no reason to get excited for a pretty insignificant change over his career norm.

 

"Getting excited" in this case meaning "posting a link to a blog post without comment and without reply before you decried it as being more or less pointless".

 

I see even the moderators get in on the fun.

[mul21]

You see I make a point about how walk rates for half a season can vary quite erratically, Starlin Castros has done this. Therefore, Castros "improvement" the second half of the season is only mildly encouraging. Of course it's better than not improving, but there's no reason to get excited for a pretty insignificant change over his career norm.

 

"Getting excited" in this case meaning "posting a link to a blog post without comment and without reply before you decried it as being more or less pointless".

 

I see even the moderators get in on the fun.

 

See, the problem is that this "half season" was under completely different management who, if you read a bit, you'll find really emphasizes seeing pitches and patience and has just come out and said how devoid this organization was of any thought of teaching prospects in that manner. Everybody else here is aware of the different circumstances this spike in walks was achieved under and due to the approach change, some decline in BA was expected as Castro made the adjustment. Does that make you feel better?

[TheClash]

You see I make a point about how walk rates for half a season can vary quite erratically, Starlin Castros has done this. Therefore, Castros "improvement" the second half of the season is only mildly encouraging. Of course it's better than not improving, but there's no reason to get excited for a pretty insignificant change over his career norm.

 

"Getting excited" in this case meaning "posting a link to a blog post without comment and without reply before you decried it as being more or less pointless".

 

I see even the moderators get in on the fun.

 

See, the problem is that this "half season" was under completely different management who, if you read a bit, you'll find really emphasizes seeing pitches and patience and has just come out and said how devoid this organization was of any thought of teaching prospects in that manner. Everybody else here is aware of the different circumstances this spike in walks was achieved under and due to the approach change, some decline in BA was expected as Castro made the adjustment. Does that make you feel better?

 

Yeah because every hitter who was told to "walk more" walked more for awhile and was able to walk more forever. I'd venture an educated guess that close to all of them went back to being walking as much as they did before. A lot of those who did collapsed in other ways because of it. If Castro's going to develop patience at the plate it's going to be a part of his development as a hitter - not because the front office tells him to. Sure they can encourage him to as much as they want, but that's all.

 

If that was a good argument, Billy Beane's Oakland Athletics would finish last (or so it seems) in walks every year.

 

We're trying to ascertain Castro's value, not some random stupid anecdotal crap of an argument.

[mul21]

 

Yeah because every hitter who was told to "walk more" walked more for awhile and was able to walk more forever. I'd venture an educated guess that close to all of them went back to being walking as much as they did before. A lot of those who did collapsed in other ways because of it. If Castro's going to develop patience at the plate it's going to be a part of his development as a hitter - not because the front office tells him to. Sure they can encourage him to as much as they want, but that's all.

 

If that was a good argument, Billy Beane's Oakland Athletics would finish last (or so it seems) in walks every year.

 

We're trying to ascertain Castro's value, not some random stupid anecdotal crap of an argument.

 

It's not going to be anything more anecdotal because Castro is probably more talented than 98% of guys who ever put on a major league uniform and more than likely has a much greater capacity to "learn" selectivity than the other average type guys you're referring to.

[TheClash]

 

Yeah because every hitter who was told to "walk more" walked more for awhile and was able to walk more forever. I'd venture an educated guess that close to all of them went back to being walking as much as they did before. A lot of those who did collapsed in other ways because of it. If Castro's going to develop patience at the plate it's going to be a part of his development as a hitter - not because the front office tells him to. Sure they can encourage him to as much as they want, but that's all.

 

If that was a good argument, Billy Beane's Oakland Athletics would finish last (or so it seems) in walks every year.

 

We're trying to ascertain Castro's value, not some random stupid anecdotal crap of an argument.

 

It's not going to be anything more anecdotal because Castro is probably more talented than 98% of guys who ever put on a major league uniform and more than likely has a much greater capacity to "learn" selectivity than the other average type guys you're referring to.

 

You skipped a step logically to make that connection. Let's break it down.

 

Castro is probably more talented than 98% of guys who ever put on a major league uniform

 

This may be true.

 

more than likely has a much greater capacity to "learn" selectivity than the other average type guys you're referring to.

 

The logic here assumes that Castro is a more talented hitter than 98% of guys. That's much less certain. Castro's ability to stick at shortstop and provide above average offense at the position is why he's an extremely talented baseball player. Castro's ability at the plate is far from being in the 98th percentile. He's certainly above average in that regard, but he's probably closer to the 75th to 80th percentile in terms of a hitter. He's probably going to settle in as a .300-.310 BA guy with power to hit 15-20 homers a year. That's outstanding as a shortstop, but as a hitter that kind of upside is good, but not super-duper. If we assume that only super-duper offensive guys can be forced to learn to walk, then he's not one of them.

 

He's a early-count hitter whose value is spraying line drives around. He's more or less league average at swinging at good or bad pitches. He's not overly aggressive to do that. He just doesn't swing and miss. Do you want him to start swinging and missing?

[Tracer Bullet]

You see I make a point about how walk rates for half a season can vary quite erratically, Starlin Castros has done this. Therefore, Castros "improvement" the second half of the season is only mildly encouraging. Of course it's better than not improving, but there's no reason to get excited for a pretty insignificant change over his career norm.

 

"Getting excited" in this case meaning "posting a link to a blog post without comment and without reply before you decried it as being more or less pointless".

 

I see even the moderators get in on the fun.

 

Getting snippy with TT isn't a good sign.

[mul21]

 

Yeah because every hitter who was told to "walk more" walked more for awhile and was able to walk more forever. I'd venture an educated guess that close to all of them went back to being walking as much as they did before. A lot of those who did collapsed in other ways because of it. If Castro's going to develop patience at the plate it's going to be a part of his development as a hitter - not because the front office tells him to. Sure they can encourage him to as much as they want, but that's all.

 

If that was a good argument, Billy Beane's Oakland Athletics would finish last (or so it seems) in walks every year.

 

We're trying to ascertain Castro's value, not some random stupid anecdotal crap of an argument.

 

It's not going to be anything more anecdotal because Castro is probably more talented than 98% of guys who ever put on a major league uniform and more than likely has a much greater capacity to "learn" selectivity than the other average type guys you're referring to.

 

You skipped a step logically to make that connection. Let's break it down.

 

Castro is probably more talented than 98% of guys who ever put on a major league uniform

 

This may be true.

 

more than likely has a much greater capacity to "learn" selectivity than the other average type guys you're referring to.

 

The logic here assumes that Castro is a more talented hitter than 98% of guys. That's much less certain. Castro's ability to stick at shortstop and provide above average offense at the position is why he's an extremely talented baseball player. Castro's ability at the plate is far from being in the 98th percentile. He's certainly above average in that regard, but he's probably closer to the 75th to 80th percentile in terms of a hitter. He's probably going to settle in as a .300-.310 BA guy with power to hit 15-20 homers a year. That's outstanding as a shortstop, but as a hitter that kind of upside is good, but not super-duper. If we assume that only super-duper offensive guys can be forced to learn to walk, then he's not one of them.

 

He's a early-count hitter whose value is spraying line drives around. He's more or less league average at swinging at good or bad pitches. He's not overly aggressive to do that. He just doesn't swing and miss. Do you want him to start swinging and missing?

 

Excuse me for not specifying I'm of the opinion his overall hit tool is better than 98% of guys who ever put on a uniform and that's why he will be able to learn something he's never been exposed to before.

[Geech]

You know posting random pictures, quotes or memes attacking the poster instead of countering my point.

 

It's quite pathetic. You see I make a point about how walk rates for half a season can vary quite erratically, Starlin Castros has done this. Therefore, Castros "improvement" the second half of the season is only mildly encouraging. Of course it's better than not improving, but there's no reason to get excited for a pretty insignificant change over his career norm.

 

 

Of course instead pointing out something intelligent, they act like drunk guys slapping each others back after downing shots

 

If you had actually made this point from the beginning, this thread would have gone much better for you.

 

By the way, I basically agree with the argument you have described in this post.

[TheClash]

 

Yeah because every hitter who was told to "walk more" walked more for awhile and was able to walk more forever. I'd venture an educated guess that close to all of them went back to being walking as much as they did before. A lot of those who did collapsed in other ways because of it. If Castro's going to develop patience at the plate it's going to be a part of his development as a hitter - not because the front office tells him to. Sure they can encourage him to as much as they want, but that's all.

 

If that was a good argument, Billy Beane's Oakland Athletics would finish last (or so it seems) in walks every year.

 

We're trying to ascertain Castro's value, not some random stupid anecdotal crap of an argument.

 

It's not going to be anything more anecdotal because Castro is probably more talented than 98% of guys who ever put on a major league uniform and more than likely has a much greater capacity to "learn" selectivity than the other average type guys you're referring to.

 

You skipped a step logically to make that connection. Let's break it down.

 

Castro is probably more talented than 98% of guys who ever put on a major league uniform

 

This may be true.

 

more than likely has a much greater capacity to "learn" selectivity than the other average type guys you're referring to.

 

The logic here assumes that Castro is a more talented hitter than 98% of guys. That's much less certain. Castro's ability to stick at shortstop and provide above average offense at the position is why he's an extremely talented baseball player. Castro's ability at the plate is far from being in the 98th percentile. He's certainly above average in that regard, but he's probably closer to the 75th to 80th percentile in terms of a hitter. He's probably going to settle in as a .300-.310 BA guy with power to hit 15-20 homers a year. That's outstanding as a shortstop, but as a hitter that kind of upside is good, but not super-duper. If we assume that only super-duper offensive guys can be forced to learn to walk, then he's not one of them.

 

He's a early-count hitter whose value is spraying line drives around. He's more or less league average at swinging at good or bad pitches. He's not overly aggressive to do that. He just doesn't swing and miss. Do you want him to start swinging and missing?

 

Excuse me for not specifying I'm of the opinion his overall hit tool is better than 98% of guys who ever put on a uniform and that's why he will be able to learn something he's never been exposed to before.

okay. So is josh vitters

[Sammy Sofa]

This is Kyle, right?