Is marshall worth keeping?

[questionmarkgrace]

Many of you may get pissed at even suggesting this ... But, if teams are willing to give up good talent for top relievers like Heath Bell why not take advantage of this? Heck throw marmol into the mix, too. Especially with the emergence of Russell as an excellent loogy and Samardzija coming into his own. Our upper level minor league teams are quite depleted or full of guys playing over their head and we need ready prospects to supplement with free agent signings. Plus Marshall is only under control for another year and about to get really expensive. In reality, our possibilities for competing next year is questionable because of our lack of starting pitching depth. Chances are the cubs cannot afford a starting pitcher along with picking up Aram's option and pursuing a stud first baseman. Why not move these guys in order to improve in areas where we dont have any depth?

[SouthSideRyan]

Trading Marmol is fine, but his recent stretch is going to severely limit the return. Marshall is making 3M next year, there's no reason to trade him.

[JimSorgi]

Trading Marmol is fine, but his recent stretch is going to severely limit the return. Marshall is making 3M next year, there's no reason to trade him.

Yeah, Marshall's one of the best relievers in baseball and not that expensive. I definitely want to keep him.

[questionmarkgrace]

Trading Marmol is fine, but his recent stretch is going to severely limit the return. Marshall is making 3M next year, there's no reason to trade him.

 

 

It just seems to me that we have so many holes to fill that it would be ok to trade an elite reliever like Marshall and receive a couple nice prospects that could help us out next year. And its not the money for next year its that if we are going to try to resign him after next year it will cost us. Plus he is at his peak value right now and we have bullpen depth.

 

Marmol I think is still highly valued around the league. When he is on he is the best stopper in the game, whether that is as a closer or if he is that key inning guy like he was for us in 08 with woody closing. I think alot of teams still see him as an elite reliever despite his recent blown saves

[Guest]

Trading Marmol is fine, but his recent stretch is going to severely limit the return. Marshall is making 3M next year, there's no reason to trade him.

 

 

It just seems to me that we have so many holes to fill that it would be ok to trade an elite reliever like Marshall and receive a couple nice prospects that could help us out next year.

 

That would be okay, but it won't happen that way. Teams don't trade MLB ready prospects for relievers in July.

[Outshined_One]

I think Marshall is worth keeping, but mostly because I think he will be a helpful part of the 2012 team if he's still around. I think the Cubs can compete next season. Having Marshall in the bullpen as the 8th inning guy/occasional closer would be a boon for the bullpen. He's good and he's cheap. I don't know if there is anyone on the team or on the farm who can step in and be as effective as Marshall next season. Plus, I'm not a huge fan of throwing money at free agent relievers.

 

However, if some team is willing to overpay for Marshall along the lines of offering up a Top 50 prospect for him, I'd be happy to see him traded.

[questionmarkgrace]

Trading Marmol is fine, but his recent stretch is going to severely limit the return. Marshall is making 3M next year, there's no reason to trade him.

 

 

It just seems to me that we have so many holes to fill that it would be ok to trade an elite reliever like Marshall and receive a couple nice prospects that could help us out next year.

 

That would be okay, but it won't happen that way. Teams don't trade MLB ready prospects for relievers in July.

 

 

Teams do trade mlb ready prospects for closers. Case in point Matt Capps for Wilson Ramos and joe testa (reliever prospect). The phillies gave up Bourn and Constanzo for Lidge which was a nice size haul at the time. I have to believe that Marmol is currently valued as high or higher than Lidge when he was traded.

[Outshined_One]

Teams do trade mlb ready prospects for closers. Case in point Matt Capps for Wilson Ramos and joe testa (reliever prospect). The phillies gave up Bourn and Constanzo for Lidge which was a nice size haul at the time. I have to believe that Marmol is currently valued as high or higher than Lidge when he was traded.

 

BA's take at the time.

 

Bourn and Costanzo were both considered above average prospects at the time, although neither was considered a Top 100 guy. After the trade, they were 5 and 6 on BA's Astros Top 10 List, which featured the immortal JR Towles as the #1 prospect in that system. Towles came up #53 on BA's Top 100 list that year and was the only Astro on it.

 

Bourn's turned out phenomenally for the Astros, but in terms of how that deal looked at the time, if the Cubs get an equivalent return for Marshall as the Astros did for Lidge, I'd be kind of iffy on the deal.

[questionmarkgrace]

Teams do trade mlb ready prospects for closers. Case in point Matt Capps for Wilson Ramos and joe testa (reliever prospect). The phillies gave up Bourn and Constanzo for Lidge which was a nice size haul at the time. I have to believe that Marmol is currently valued as high or higher than Lidge when he was traded.

 

BA's take at the time.

 

Bourn and Costanzo were both considered above average prospects at the time, although neither was considered a Top 100 guy. After the trade, they were 5 and 6 on BA's Astros Top 10 List, which featured the immortal JR Towles as the #1 prospect in that system. Towles came up #53 on BA's Top 100 list that year and was the only Astro on it.

 

Bourn's turned out phenomenally for the Astros, but in terms of how that deal looked at the time, if the Cubs get an equivalent return for Marshall as the Astros did for Lidge, I'd be kind of iffy on the deal.

 

Towles moved 3 levels that year and looked the part, so its not like that was unfounded. I would say that it was a real solid return for a guy who looked really shaky that year. Lidge blew 8 saves in 27 chances that year.

 

Marmol has blown 7 saves this year but has been so dominant at times that I have a hard time believing he doesnt eclipse Lidge's value. Same for marshall.

[Little Slide Rooter]

It depends on the plans for next year. If they plan on spending the necessary money to get right back into contention, then Marshall is a huge part of the team. If not, and they just plan on letting Aramis walk, trade what they can, and pick up a few dime store free agents, than I think that if we could get at least a top 25-50 prospect for him, then it would be foolish not to, and by the time they are ready to compete again, Marshalls likely gone anyway.

[dew1679666265]

It just seems to me that we have so many holes to fill that it would be ok to trade an elite reliever like Marshall and receive a couple nice prospects that could help us out next year. And its not the money for next year its that if we are going to try to resign him after next year it will cost us. Plus he is at his peak value right now and we have bullpen depth.

 

Marmol I think is still highly valued around the league. When he is on he is the best stopper in the game, whether that is as a closer or if he is that key inning guy like he was for us in 08 with woody closing. I think alot of teams still see him as an elite reliever despite his recent blown saves

 

The closer stigma is still very important to the more traditional organizations around the league. Guys who have compiled saves immediately become significantly more attractive to teams than even superior pitchers who don't have saves.

 

Marshall is a dominant reliever, but I don't think many teams will see him as a closer because he's never done it before. Thus, they'll likely be less willing to give up a closer-type package for him and the comps you laid out of the Lidge and Capps trades would be a greater return than we'd likely get for Marshall.

 

If you really want to maximize Marshall's value on the market, the best thing would be to aggressively shop Marmol now and make Marshall the closer the rest of this season and next. At that point, if we're out of the race at the deadline next year, we can shop Marshall as a "proven" closer.

[tmicmiller]

Lefty relievers and catchers are two spots the Cubs have depth. I'm all for trading Marshall and possibly Soto...

 

Lefties:

-Marshall

-Russell (been good in the bullpen)

-Grabow (gone soon)

-Maine (AAA)

-Gaub (AAA)

-Rusin (AAA)

-Beliveau (AA) looks like a stud

 

Why not move Marshal from a position of depth and strength in the organization? However, I wouldn't do it without getting back a top 50 prospect and a high upside B prospect or two. I think the Cubs could get that for Marshall since he dominates left handed hitters, but is also really good against right handed hitters. Any contender would be interested.

[mookie]

Yes, yes, and more yes. If the deal is enticing, you have to pull the trigger. Selling high on a reliever should be textbook.

[Backtobanks]

Yes, yes, and more yes. If the deal is enticing, you have to pull the trigger. Selling high on a reliever should be textbook.

 

As others have stated, you aren't going to "sell high" on Marshall. Nobody is going to give you much for a set-up man.

[NewUserName]

I am all for trading any player that will make the Cubs better.

[questionmarkgrace]

Yes, yes, and more yes. If the deal is enticing, you have to pull the trigger. Selling high on a reliever should be textbook.

 

As others have stated, you aren't going to "sell high" on Marshall. Nobody is going to give you much for a set-up man.

 

 

they may be willing to deal some good prospects for marshall because he is cheap, controlled for another year, consistent, has closer "stuff," and is relatively young. Unfortunately Hendry doesn't seem to want to listen. He is clearly delusional about this team's chances of competing next year and his ability to move soriano. The fact of the matter is we wont be able to improve at third base, first base, and starting pitching all in a single off season. That would require a whole ton of money and luck to be able to convince the best free agents that the cubs still have chance to be a WS contender. Basically Hendry doesn't want to trade anyone from this god awful team except for Reed Johnson which will garner little return, Soriano who is probably untradeable given his slump and also will garner no return, and possibly marlon Byrd. 20 games under and he wants to keep the core intact, ridiculous.

 

 

this:

 

SI.com's Jon Heyman reports that the Cubs "continue to tell all interested parties" that Sean Marshall isn't going to be traded. That's what we've heard all along. Marshall is having another excellent year and would draw a bunch of interest if he was on the market, but the Cubs have him under control for another season and aren't interested in parting with him.

 

and this:

 

Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times writes that there is a "growing sense" that the Cubs are considering bringing back Carlos Pena for next season.Pena, who signed a one-year, $10 million contract over the winter, could draw interest from teams at the trade deadline, and the Cubs will certainly listen. But, they could be inclined to hang on to him and re-sign him to a new deal. Re-upping with Pena would obviously rule out the Cubs in going after impending marquee free agents Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder.

 

Aramis Ramirez and Carlos Pena may have played their way into the Cubs' plans for next season, reports CSNChicago.com's Patrick Mooney.

 

most people knew this:

 

Cubs veteran Kerry Wood will not approve any trade proposed to him by the Cubs, tweets Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated. It's more likely that the right-hander signs a new deal with the club.

 

and then there is this:

 

Hendry: "Why would we trade anybody who we think is going to help us next year or the years after? I would say if we move anyone it would be somebody we clearly knew wouldn't be back. We're not going to move people that we think are going to help us. Why would I trade Sean Marshall? Why would I trade Darwin Barney? Those calls kind of stop quickly. It makes no sense.

 

Darwin Barney is untouchable? really???

[JimSorgi]

Well Hendry's got a point. Why would he trade Barney? He wouldn't get much for him, and he is a cheap and decent player. There is no reason to trade him unless some team really wanted him.

 

And oh my god of course we can compete next year. Why won't people stop saying we can't?

[questionmarkgrace]

Well Hendry's got a point. Why would he trade Barney? He wouldn't get much for him, and he is a cheap and decent player. There is no reason to trade him unless some team really wanted him.

 

And oh my god of course we can compete next year. Why won't people stop saying we can't?

 

Barney is having a nice season especially on defense. But he is nothing special. We have depth at middle infielder so there is no reason to keep him if some one wants him.

 

Get you head out of the "ideal" optimism, because if you think we can compete that is what you are suggesting then you are really out of touch. Such optimism has killed this team from Jim Hendry's end. How can we compete if they dont have the cash to pick up aram's option and chase Fielder of Pujols, and get a starter? If the quotes above suggest anything. its that the cubs will keep aram, pena, and add a starter. does that make us a contender next year? No [expletive] way.

 

this team needs to make moves to get better. We have more players from our 08 swept in the playoffs team then the phillies have from their 08 world series team. what's wrong here?

[JimSorgi]

Well Hendry's got a point. Why would he trade Barney? He wouldn't get much for him, and he is a cheap and decent player. There is no reason to trade him unless some team really wanted him.

 

And oh my god of course we can compete next year. Why won't people stop saying we can't?

 

Barney is having a nice season especially on defense. But he is nothing special. We have depth at middle infielder so there is no reason to keep him if some one wants him.

The point isn't that we need him. The point is that he's a cheap, young player who isn't going to get us much in a trade. We'd just be trading him for no reason. He'll help the team much more by keeping him.

 

There's no reason to give up on next season already with the payroll we have and the division we're in.

[questionmarkgrace]

Well Hendry's got a point. Why would he trade Barney? He wouldn't get much for him, and he is a cheap and decent player. There is no reason to trade him unless some team really wanted him.

 

And oh my god of course we can compete next year. Why won't people stop saying we can't?

 

Barney is having a nice season especially on defense. But he is nothing special. We have depth at middle infielder so there is no reason to keep him if some one wants him.

The point isn't that we need him. The point is that he's a cheap, young player who isn't going to get us much in a trade. We'd just be trading him for no reason. He'll help the team much more by keeping him.

 

There's no reason to give up on next season already with the payroll we have and the division we're in.

 

really, you think barney is a key player to this team? guys like him, fontenot, and theriot are a dime a dozen. We have marwin gonzalez, and flarehety who can come up and probably outproduce him right now.

 

other teams like the brewers, cardinals, and reds are stocked for years with their current players and farms system guys. they arent getting worse any time soon. The pirates even look like they can be good for quite a while.

[Vanilla Ice]

Well Hendry's got a point. Why would he trade Barney? He wouldn't get much for him, and he is a cheap and decent player. There is no reason to trade him unless some team really wanted him.

 

And oh my god of course we can compete next year. Why won't people stop saying we can't?

 

Barney is having a nice season especially on defense. But he is nothing special. We have depth at middle infielder so there is no reason to keep him if some one wants him.

The point isn't that we need him. The point is that he's a cheap, young player who isn't going to get us much in a trade. We'd just be trading him for no reason. He'll help the team much more by keeping him.

 

There's no reason to give up on next season already with the payroll we have and the division we're in.

 

really, you think barney is a key player to this team? guys like him, fontenot, and theriot are a dime a dozen. We have marwin gonzalez, and flarehety who can come up and probably outproduce him right now.

 

other teams like the brewers, cardinals, and reds are stocked for years with their current players and farms system guys. they arent getting worse any time soon. The pirates even look like they can be good for quite a while.

Exactly. We would hardly get anything for him in a trade.

[questionmarkgrace]

Well Hendry's got a point. Why would he trade Barney? He wouldn't get much for him, and he is a cheap and decent player. There is no reason to trade him unless some team really wanted him.

 

And oh my god of course we can compete next year. Why won't people stop saying we can't?

 

Barney is having a nice season especially on defense. But he is nothing special. We have depth at middle infielder so there is no reason to keep him if some one wants him.

The point isn't that we need him. The point is that he's a cheap, young player who isn't going to get us much in a trade. We'd just be trading him for no reason. He'll help the team much more by keeping him.

 

There's no reason to give up on next season already with the payroll we have and the division we're in.

 

really, you think barney is a key player to this team? guys like him, fontenot, and theriot are a dime a dozen. We have marwin gonzalez, and flarehety who can come up and probably outproduce him right now.

 

other teams like the brewers, cardinals, and reds are stocked for years with their current players and farms system guys. they arent getting worse any time soon. The pirates even look like they can be good for quite a while.

Exactly. We would hardly get anything for him in a trade.

 

exactly so there is no reason to suggest that he is part of our "future" like hendry said. He never said he wanted to keep him because he was cheap. If someone inquires about him you let him go if you have guys in the minors that can out perform him now. Its addition by subtraction.

[JimSorgi]

really, you think barney is a key player to this team? guys like him, fontenot, and theriot are a dime a dozen. We have marwin gonzalez, and flarehety who can come up and probably outproduce him right now.

 

other teams like the brewers, cardinals, and reds are stocked for years with their current players and farms system guys. they arent getting worse any time soon. The pirates even look like they can be good for quite a while.

I never said he was a key player. He has value to the team because he's cheap and decent. We likely wouldn't get anything worthwhile for him in a trade, so that defeats the point.

 

Our division has solid teams, but no great team. That's why we can compete next year. Also, the Cardinals and Brewers are likely losing their superstar first basemen.

[Vanilla Ice]

really, you think barney is a key player to this team? guys like him, fontenot, and theriot are a dime a dozen. We have marwin gonzalez, and flarehety who can come up and probably outproduce him right now.

 

other teams like the brewers, cardinals, and reds are stocked for years with their current players and farms system guys. they arent getting worse any time soon. The pirates even look like they can be good for quite a while.

Exactly. We would hardly get anything for him in a trade.

 

exactly so there is no reason to suggest that he is part of our "future" like hendry said. He never said he wanted to keep him because he was cheap. If someone inquires about him you let him go if you have guys in the minors that can out perform him now. Its addition by subtraction.

 

Obviously we should be open to trading him, but why publicly say you only want to keep him because he is cheap?

 

He can easily be a part of our next contending team. He is replaceable, but a serviceable backup/spot starter. Between the four of him, Baker, Flaherty, and LeMahieu, Darwin is the only person that can back up Castro.

[XZero771679666304]

really, you think barney is a key player to this team? guys like him, fontenot, and theriot are a dime a dozen. We have marwin gonzalez, and flarehety who can come up and probably outproduce him right now.

 

other teams like the brewers, cardinals, and reds are stocked for years with their current players and farms system guys. they arent getting worse any time soon. The pirates even look like they can be good for quite a while.

I never said he was a key player. He has value to the team because he's cheap and decent. We likely wouldn't get anything worthwhile for him in a trade, so that defeats the point.

 

Our division has solid teams, but no great team. That's why we can compete next year. Also, the Cardinals and Brewers are likely losing their superstar first basemen.

 

Well the Brewers are losing their first baseman, anyway. And the Brewers' farm system is completely dried up, and the Cardinals system isn't in much better shape.

 

None of the teams in this division are poised for prolonged dominance.