Aramis Ramirez’s 2012 Option Does NOT Vest if He’s Traded

[Outshined_One]

3) Dew is also saying is that it is "easy" to find league average production at 3B for the Cubs because they already have half a platoon that is a good bet to put up an .850 OPS versus lefties. That means the Cubs only have to find someone that can hit righties at around a .650 clip to achieve league average.

 

The problem I have with scenario is that Baker's production is on the wrong side of the platoon.

 

Per Baseball Reference this year, RHPs have faced 72,047 batters, while LHPs have faced 23,593 batters. Roughly speaking, that .650 hitter would be at the plate 2/3 of the time, which would be a problem for the Cubs' offense.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Those close to Andre Ethier believe there's no chance he'd re-sign with the Dodgers after the 2012 season. If true, Olney says it would make sense for the team to try to trade him offseason. You can make a case they'd be selling low though, Either had a down season by his standards (.292/.368/.421 with 11 homers) and finished the year on the disabled list due to knee surgery.

 

I wonder what it would take to get Ethier. Say we did get Fielder and Wilson, Ethier would be a great complimentry piece, and then we could resign him the next offseason. He wouldn't be cheap in terms of prospects or players however.

[USSoccer]

I guess the question I have is, why is everyone assuming the Ricketts family won't bump payroll if given the opportunity to sign Pujols, Fielder or Wilson?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I guess the question I have is, why is everyone assuming the Ricketts family won't bump payroll if given the opportunity to sign Pujols, Fielder or Wilson?

 

Because Ricketts' words seem to indicate that, at best, the payroll will be staying about the same and any extra money goes into the farm system for the immediate future.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I guess the question I have is, why is everyone assuming the Ricketts family won't bump payroll if given the opportunity to sign Pujols, Fielder or Wilson?

 

I think they would for Fielder or Pujols, however, Wilson could end up with a bidding war and a bit more money than he's worth. he's the best FA SP out there, and has been pitching in one of the most hitter friendly parks in baseball, however, a lot of teams are going to be interested and there are always going to be more teams in need of a SP than a 1B. With Pujols or Fielder, it could be easier to blow the competiton out of the water, especially when they might not have an immediate need at 1B, but for teams in need of SP, that's not always the case. Also, remember, John Danks, Sean Marcum, Zach Greinke, and probably one of Matt Cain and Tim LIncecum will be FAs after next year, as well as a few other interesting options like Scott Baker and Ervin Santana.

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the same opening day rotation we started out this year, including Big Z with with a beefed up offense.

[Sammy Sofa]

I guess the question I have is, why is everyone assuming the Ricketts family won't bump payroll if given the opportunity to sign Pujols, Fielder or Wilson?

 

Because Ricketts' words seem to indicate that, at best, the payroll will be staying about the same and any extra money goes into the farm system for the immediate future.

 

I think it all comes down to how much the bump is. The question isn't whether or not they can afford it; it's whether or not the Ricketts are willing to spend.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I guess the question I have is, why is everyone assuming the Ricketts family won't bump payroll if given the opportunity to sign Pujols, Fielder or Wilson?

 

Because Ricketts' words seem to indicate that, at best, the payroll will be staying about the same and any extra money goes into the farm system for the immediate future.

 

Which ones?

 

I've heard this, but I've never heard anything actually cited. I think he'd be willing to bump up payroll if it helped the team win sooner rather than later. I mean looking at the current roster there's a pretty healthy balance of just out of prime (Ramirez, Soriano, Wood, Byrd, Dempster, Marmol?), prime (Soto, Marshall, Garza, Wells, Marmol?, Baker), solid pre-prime talent (Castro, Barney, Shark, Russell, DeWitt?), some more pre-prime guys who show some signs of being competent in some capacity with plenty of room to grow (Colvin, LeMahieu, DeWitt), and then close to ready to help prospects (Jackson, Flaherty, Carpenter, Dolis, Cabrera, I'll throw Cashner in this one). It's a team that's begging for a couple of elite talents to help stabilize the situation...and given the payoff Ricketts (and all of us, but he gets most of the money) could see by throwing a little extra money into the big league club....

[Little Slide Rooter]

I guess the question I have is, why is everyone assuming the Ricketts family won't bump payroll if given the opportunity to sign Pujols, Fielder or Wilson?

 

Because Ricketts' words seem to indicate that, at best, the payroll will be staying about the same and any extra money goes into the farm system for the immediate future.

 

I think it all comes down to how much the bump is. The question isn't whether or not they can afford it; it's whether or not the Ricketts are willing to spend.

 

It also comes down to the GM. The money is there, Ricketts has pretty much said it, but it depends on the GMs MO. I can't imagine a new GM coming into a major market team with plenty of available money and not wanting to spend a decent chunk of it on the right guys.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I guess the question I have is, why is everyone assuming the Ricketts family won't bump payroll if given the opportunity to sign Pujols, Fielder or Wilson?

 

Because Ricketts' words seem to indicate that, at best, the payroll will be staying about the same and any extra money goes into the farm system for the immediate future.

 

Which ones?

 

I've never had much success convincing you by posting actual words from people.

[dew1679666265]

Also, how can a prospect be handed the majority of 3B PAs/ABs and LeMahieu's not even in the conversation to be that guy?

 

I've mentioned LeMaheieu's name several times in the past few pages of this thread as an option as well. I'm focusing mainly on Flaherty, though, as my hope is that LeMaheieu will work his way into playing time at second base next year.

[dew1679666265]

Let me put it this way, if we let Ramirez walk, we have to sign both Fielder and Wilson to have a chance next year. If we sign one of them, we are still at least 1-2 years from competing. God forbid we don't get either of them (a distinct possibility with those 2 crazy offers I mentioned).

 

And if we bring Aramis back, we have to sign one of Fielder/Wilson and have to hope that Aramis - at 34 years old - can stay healthy for at least as many games as he did this year and hope he doesn't decline any more than he did from 2008 to 2011 (30 point OPS drop) just to be better than we were this year. If Aramis goes down for 40-80 games like he has two of the past three years, then even if we do sign one of Fielder/Wilson, we have little to no shot to compete.

 

You're portraying keeping Aramis as the safe route, however it simply isn't that safe a route. It's very likely that Aramis will miss significant time next year and/or that his OPS drop from 2008 to 2011 will continue even if he is healthy next year. And if that happens then we have $12-16 million tied up in an aging, injured player for each of the next two years. If we let Aramis walk and miss on one of Fielder/Wilson, we still have money to go out on the trade market and see what we can get without having to look only at longshot missed prospects.

[dew1679666265]

I guess the question I have is, why is everyone assuming the Ricketts family won't bump payroll if given the opportunity to sign Pujols, Fielder or Wilson?

 

From my perspective, it's not that I'm assuming he won't bump up payroll, it's that I don't want to assume he will. I've said before if payroll increases enough to make it work, I'd be thrilled to bring back Aramis and then pursue Fielder and Wilson. However, that's very unlikely given our current payroll and would almost certainly require a bump of some degree. Ricketts may be willing to make that bump, but I don't want to assume he will.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Also, how can a prospect be handed the majority of 3B PAs/ABs and LeMahieu's not even in the conversation to be that guy?

 

I've mentioned LeMaheieu's name several times in the past few pages of this thread as an option as well. I'm focusing mainly on Flaherty, though, as my hope is that LeMaheieu will work his way into playing time at second base next year.

 

Oh sorry. Stoner. Still can't say I'm much of a Flaherty fan, especially as someone being handed most of a platoon ABs.

[Backtobanks]

Let me put it this way, if we let Ramirez walk, we have to sign both Fielder and Wilson to have a chance next year. If we sign one of them, we are still at least 1-2 years from competing. God forbid we don't get either of them (a distinct possibility with those 2 crazy offers I mentioned).

 

And if we bring Aramis back, we have to sign one of Fielder/Wilson and have to hope that Aramis - at 34 years old - can stay healthy for at least as many games as he did this year and hope he doesn't decline any more than he did from 2008 to 2011 (30 point OPS drop) just to be better than we were this year. If Aramis goes down for 40-80 games like he has two of the past three years, then even if we do sign one of Fielder/Wilson, we have little to no shot to compete.

 

You're portraying keeping Aramis as the safe route, however it simply isn't that safe a route. It's very likely that Aramis will miss significant time next year and/or that his OPS drop from 2008 to 2011 will continue even if he is healthy next year. And if that happens then we have $12-16 million tied up in an aging, injured player for each of the next two years. If we let Aramis walk and miss on one of Fielder/Wilson, we still have money to go out on the trade market and see what we can get without having to look only at longshot missed prospects.

 

I think Aramis is miles ahead of any option at 3B for the next year or two. Of course there is a risk in re-signing him, but everything is predicated on getting him at a hometown-friendly contract. With the right contract, I think the Cubs can still be competitive in the bidding for Fielder and Wilson. Also, I think if Ricketts is smart enough to listen to his GM, he won't let a few million stop the Cubs from becoming instant contenders. If we miss on one of them, there's still room for additions in the trade market.

[Irrelevant Dude]

With Ramirez stating publicly that he will opt for free agency, does that mean the Cubs will pick up his option, forcing him to decline it and saving the buyout money? I'm really interested to see how this will play out without a GM in place.

[Rob]

Those close to Andre Ethier believe there's no chance he'd re-sign with the Dodgers after the 2012 season. If true, Olney says it would make sense for the team to try to trade him offseason. You can make a case they'd be selling low though, Either had a down season by his standards (.292/.368/.421 with 11 homers) and finished the year on the disabled list due to knee surgery.

 

I wonder what it would take to get Ethier. Say we did get Fielder and Wilson, Ethier would be a great complimentry piece, and then we could resign him the next offseason. He wouldn't be cheap in terms of prospects or players however.

 

Ethier's salary will be north of $10 mil next season. We could get the Dodgers to pitch in some, but that will hurt our farm system more. I'd rather we avoid him.

[Clem Fandango]

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7012272/chicago-cubs-aramis-ramirez-only-wants-sign-contender

 

Chicago Cubs third baseman Aramis Ramirez has two requirements when he enters the free agent market after the season -- a multiyear contract and the chance to play for a contender with a real shot at playing in the World Series.

 

"I think any team that comes after me has got to be a team that is ready to win," Ramirez said Saturday on "Talking Baseball" on ESPN 1000. "I don't think any team that is in the rebuilding process or if they're not ready is going to come after me because I'm not that kind of player who is going to wait two, three years then see what happens. Any team that comes after me has got to be ready to win right now."

 

Didn't we try trading him to contenders and he used his 10-5 rights to veto the trades?

[Sammy Sofa]

Probably because he wants to stay here. Sounds like if the Cubs succeed in signing a big name FA he'd happily come back, and probably for below what he could get elsewhere.

[dew1679666265]

I think Aramis is miles ahead of any option at 3B for the next year or two.

 

I don't know anybody who would disagree with that, including myself. However, I believe the backup options are good enough that we're a better overall team with Baker/Flaherty at third and Wilson starting than with Aramis at third and the multi-headed combo of McNutt/Whitenack/Cashner/Shark/Struck/Lopez/Bush/whoever in the rotation. We both seem to agree that Fielder/Pujols should be targeted either way.

 

Of course there is a risk in re-signing him, but everything is predicated on getting him at a hometown-friendly contract. With the right contract, I think the Cubs can still be competitive in the bidding for Fielder and Wilson. Also, I think if Ricketts is smart enough to listen to his GM, he won't let a few million stop the Cubs from becoming instant contenders.

 

If that's the case, great. However, I can't assume that will happen and if we end up only being able to afford 2 of the 3, I think the best decision is to let Aramis walk and pursue Fielder/Wilson.

 

If we miss on one of them, there's still room for additions in the trade market.

 

This is exactly what I've been arguing should we let Aramis walk and pursue Fielder/Wilson. If we miss on one, it doesn't ensure our inability to compete. We can still pursue trade options that may include Kemp and Ethier.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Evem if we didn't get Fielder or Pujols, I think that a lineup of

 

Jackson

Castro

Ramirez

Pena

Ethier

Soriano

Soto

Barney/Flaherty/LeMa/DeWitt/Baker

 

Would be able to contend, assuming they had a rotation of Garza, Wilson, Dempster, Zambrano, and Casher.