Struck & Lake to Tenn; B. Jackson off DL; Ha Down to Daytona

[Guest]

For the people that didn't want Ha sent back down, did you:

 

1) want to promote Jackson and his 33% strikeout rate to Iowa or Chicago?

2) play either Jackson or Ha out of position in a corner and even further screw up the already crowded rotation there in Tenn?

 

1) I wouldn't have called up Ha if he was only playing 2 weeks at AA.

2) The problem is Ha will be splitting time in a corner position at Daytona with Rubi Silva. In fact, since Silva has nearly no value as a corner OF given his minimal power, Ha would better serve the organization playing full time RF while he's on the same squad as Silva.

1) does it really mess with his development at all to give him a taste of the next level? It's not like we wasted an option on him by giving him the temp call up.

2) I hope the Cubs see Ha as a much better prospect and fit in Silva around him rather than having them split time. Was Szczur splitting CF time with Silva in Peoria?

[Guest]

For the people that didn't want Ha sent back down, did you:

 

1) want to promote Jackson and his 33% strikeout rate to Iowa or Chicago?

2) play either Jackson or Ha out of position in a corner and even further screw up the already crowded rotation there in Tenn?

 

1) I wouldn't have called up Ha if he was only playing 2 weeks at AA.

2) The problem is Ha will be splitting time in a corner position at Daytona with Rubi Silva. In fact, since Silva has nearly no value as a corner OF given his minimal power, Ha would better serve the organization playing full time RF while he's on the same squad as Silva.

1) does it really mess with his development at all to give him a taste of the next level? It's not like we wasted an option on him by giving him the temp call up.

2) I hope the Cubs see Ha as a much better prospect and fit in Silva around him rather than having them split time. Was Szczur splitting CF time with Silva in Peoria?

 

1) I didn't mean to denote a negative effect on Ha for the call up and demotion but if he was demoted for a base running error, that is idiotic. I feel like the Cubs did a bad job of organizing their CF logjam, especially considering Jackson's injury. Silva could easily have used extra time in Peoria to work and Na would have been fine staying at extended and going to Boise again this season and that would have allowed only one level to have multiple CF prospects having to platoon the position defensively. Now, the Cubs have to choose between Ha/Jackson or Ha/Silva while also having Szczur/Na.

2) Yeah, Szczur was splitting time with Silva and Silva was getting more games at CF than Szczur (though that could have been in response to Matt's ankle injury early on).

[Guest]

Well, the Cubs have four guys that need cf reps and three levels to play them. I think Szczur and Ha are most raw out there, so they need the most reps. Jackson is the best prospect, so you organize things around him. Silva should have enough cf experience to slide over to a corner without hurting his progression that much.

 

To be honest, I like Jackson, Ha and Szczur enough that I don't really care where Silva gets his reps.

[toonsterwu]

Mixed feelings on some of the Cubs recent moves. I'm not a huge fan of pushing LeMahieu up to the bigs all of a sudden. He should get regular PT, but it's hard to imagine him getting that in the majors right now. I would've been fine with the move to AAA, although I preferred Flaherty to get the move (I half wonder if the Cubs sort of have Ryan on a "2nd tier" list, behind LeMahieu, in regards to guys that they have high expectations for, particularly after Ryan's struggles his first go-around in AA last year).

 

I'm not too enthused about Lake going to AA right now, even though he was performing well (and even though I had hoped to see him start the year there). I would've preferred to see him a bit longer in A+.

 

As much as I am big on Struck ... I almost would've preferred to see Rosscup go up. Granted, that would've been a third lefty in Tennessee's rotation and Struck is the better prospect, so I'm not too worked up over this move. That said, he's had two "eh" starts in his last 4 outings. I would've preferred to see a longer measure of consistency of positive starts.

[kylescubs23]

Random observation...Soriano and Lake have the same K to BB ratio...49:6...Lake has quite a few more ab's though.

[jersey cubs fan]

For the people that didn't want Ha sent back down, did you:

 

1) want to promote Jackson and his 33% strikeout rate to Iowa or Chicago?

 

What the hell does his strikeout rate have to do with whether or not you would be willing to promote the guy to AAA?

[Guest]

For the people that didn't want Ha sent back down, did you:

 

1) want to promote Jackson and his 33% strikeout rate to Iowa or Chicago?

 

What the hell does his strikeout rate have to do with whether or not you would be willing to promote the guy to AAA?

because when you're striking out in 33% of your at bats, you really haven't mastered the level you are at yet.

[JeffH]

He's struck out in 28% of his at-bats.

[HossmanGT]

For the people that didn't want Ha sent back down, did you:

 

1) want to promote Jackson and his 33% strikeout rate to Iowa or Chicago?

 

What the hell does his strikeout rate have to do with whether or not you would be willing to promote the guy to AAA?

because when you're striking out in 33% of your at bats, you really haven't mastered the level you are at yet.

 

I agree that we should leave Jackson in AA for now. That said, how much improvement can we really expect in his strikeout rate? Even going back to his days in Boise and Peoria, he's never been much better than a 25% strikeout rate (he is currently 28% in Tennessee).

 

On a side note, shouldn't strikeout rate really be based on plate appearances? Seems as though it unfairly hurts a guy like Brett Jackson who takes a lot of walks, versus a guy like Junior Lake that gets credited with an at-bat every time he gets to the plate because he doesn't take walks.

[jersey cubs fan]

For the people that didn't want Ha sent back down, did you:

 

1) want to promote Jackson and his 33% strikeout rate to Iowa or Chicago?

 

What the hell does his strikeout rate have to do with whether or not you would be willing to promote the guy to AAA?

because when you're striking out in 33% of your at bats, you really haven't mastered the level you are at yet.

 

The Cubs never put much interest in "mastering a level" when promoting Vitters. And since when is strikeout/AB the determining factor on whether a guy has mastered a level?

[Guest]

For the people that didn't want Ha sent back down, did you:

 

1) want to promote Jackson and his 33% strikeout rate to Iowa or Chicago?

 

What the hell does his strikeout rate have to do with whether or not you would be willing to promote the guy to AAA?

because when you're striking out in 33% of your at bats, you really haven't mastered the level you are at yet.

 

The Cubs never put much interest in "mastering a level" when promoting Vitters. And since when is strikeout/AB the determining factor on whether a guy has mastered a level?

1) I wasn't talking about what the cubs would do.

2) it isn't the only determining factor and I didn't imply it was. However, it would be stupid to ignore it, too

3) my bad on the math brain fart. Not sure how I came up with the 33% quick estimate. 28% is still indicative of holes that need to be closed, though.

[craig]

With all due respect to a lot of really good posters and posters who I respect tremendously, I think this discussion has been strikingly over-reactionary even by NSBB standards!

 

First, Bruce shared a comment but I'm not sure it was a really detailed exact quote. Seems to me that Fleita might have been meaning that Ha wouldn't necessarily get sent down. But neither was it certain that he'd stay up. He was on fire at Daytona, he started fast at Tenn and was continuing his multi-hit work there, but subsequently he's had only one multi-hit game and only two XBH since May 18.

 

Granted I'd have preferred not to promote him in the first place, but I don't think it's a crime to promote a guy, see how he does, and then respond accordingly. Without it being guaranteed that he stays up even if he struggles, or that he goes dow even if he's thriving.

 

Second, on the pickoff, I simply shared what the poster who was at the game wrote. It is entirely premature to assume that play is why he got sent down. There is reason to assume that to be the case at all.

 

Third, I admit I wouldn't be that bothered if it was. And I wouldn't see why it should be "knee-jerk". Guys should understand that being a professional involves having your head in the game, and that there are consequences if you don't. If you get picked off because you're leaning or trying to steal or misread the pitcher's move, that's a risk that comes with basestealing. (I didn't see the Campana pickoff, but he is a base-stealer so I assume that his head was in the game but that he took to big a lead and a lean and got picked.) From the observer's post, it sounded like Ha simply wasn't paying attention and got picked. (Ha is not a basestealer, he's only stolen 6 and some of those were on hit-and-run rather than straight-steal steals, and he's got 9 CS. So it's unlikely he was totally into things and got caught really because he was leading/leaning to steal...) If he got sent down because he was sleeping at 1B, perhaps that's a terrific lesson and he'll pay more attention when he's on the base from now on.

 

Fourth, beer(?) mentioned "playing scared". I can see playing scared involving taking a conservative lead and not trying to steal. BBut falling asleep at 1B and not paying attention is the antithesis of playing scared. Every professional should "play scared" of making dumb mistakes like not watching the pitcher or losing track of outs.

 

Fifth, I think Ha's outfielding will take care of itself. My assumption is that he's pretty good there. I think he's a much better prospect than Silva, so I'd stick Silva in a corner or return him to Peoria. But if Ha plays some corner at Daytona, that seems fine.

[jersey cubs fan]

2) it isn't the only determining factor and I didn't imply it was. However, it would be stupid to ignore it, too.

 

You absolutely did imply that it was.

 

What else would you repeat it and stick to it as your only defense for not calling him up. An IsoD over 100, extremely solid numbers at the level dating back to the middle of last season. There's really no reason why he hasn't earned a right to a promotion, and you only list one inaccurate and narrowly chosen stat to make him look worse than he's been.

[javy knows my name]

Fourth, beer(?) mentioned "playing scared". I can see playing scared involving taking a conservative lead and not trying to steal. BBut falling asleep at 1B and not paying attention is the antithesis of playing scared. Every professional should "play scared" of making dumb mistakes like not watching the pitcher or losing track of outs.

 

I probably didn't articulate myself well here. I was trying to differentiate between a guy playing to earn PT after a call-up from a guy playing NOT to get sent down. That seems overly stressful; using negative reinforcement in a situation where positive reinforcement will do.

 

And of course, all this is predicated on the assumption that one baserunning gaffe brought about the demotion. I'm sure that wasn't the ONLY factor, but if it was a big one, or the proverbial straw, I have a problem with what that may mean about the coaching attitude in the low minors.

[Guest]

I don't quite think that demoting a guy because he has a mental lapse(s) is quite the same as the "negative reinforcement" of demoting a guy for poor performance like not getting hits, giving up runs, etc. It's very similar to the boo/don't boo argument actually. You don't do anything based on the actual performance, but if a player demonstrates a lack of fundamental attention that costs them(like standing at home plate on a pop up that gets dropped), then they're fair game.

[Wrigley Rat]

I didn't see the Campana pickoff, but he is a base-stealer so I assume that his head was in the game but that he took to big a lead and a lean and got picked.

That is exactly how it happened. The announcers even said something along the lines of "There's no doubt he was running on the play."

 

If [Ha] got sent down because he was sleeping at 1B, perhaps that's a terrific lesson and he'll pay more attention when he's on the base from now on.

Agreed - we complain too much that the Cubs are not teaching the basics enough in the minors. There is no better way to express that the basics are important than to send a top prospect back a level when he isn't showing the maturity to be at that level. Teachers call that a teachable moment - Ha wasn't ready to be in AA if he is not paying attention when standing at first base.

 

Every professional should "play scared" of making dumb mistakes like not watching the pitcher or losing track of outs.

Well said.