2011 Chicago Bulls Playoff Thread (5/26 7:30pm CST - TNT)

[illiniguy]

I have no idea why I read "Magic" as "Shaq."

 

But yeah, Magic is the pretty obvious outlier.

You don't remember 86? when Magic was so bad down the stretch of the Finals that he was questioned when the Celtics beat them? Even Magic had this.

 

Sorry it was 84.

[Guest]

Pour me a chalice full of Haterade, slave.

 

But seriously, point me a single superstar NBA player that didn't have moments/games/series like this. It's an inherent part of becoming a better player.

 

Magic and Kobe.

 

Well Kobe had a bunch of air balls against the Jazz one year but he was like 18 or 19 at the time. Basically Rose sucks because he didn't have a prime Kareem or Shaq on his team.

 

2004 Finals against Detroit, Kobe shot 38.1% from the field (only in Game 2 was he over 37%), and was 4-23 (17.4%) from three. He averaged 22.6 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 4.4 apg and 3.6 turnovers per game. All of those were significantly worse than any other playoff series that year.

 

And that's even more indefensible because IIRC, the Pistons were single-covering Shaq and refused to leave the other Lakers open for shots. Shaq scored 34 points on 13-16 shooting while Kobe was 10-27 in Game 1. He also had 36 on 16-21 shooting in Game 4 while Kobe was only 8-25. Shaq averaged four more points and shot 25% better from the field (he never shot worse than 50% in a game in the Finals) than Kobe did that series but took six less shots per game.

 

I'm not sure if Kobe had any other series where he played so poorly but that was one that popped into my head immediately.

[Prizefight]

Okay, rookie basketball fan here and only really interested when the Bulls are good.

 

I preface my question with that statement. How do Noah and Boozer have the contracts they have when neither one of them could see the court in the 4th quarter of an elimination game? That seems like really bad paper to both of them.

 

I just couldn't imagine a Kane, Hossa, Keith etc not seeing the ice for 8-10 minutes of the 3rd period. I know it's not a great comparison, but it seems really shocking

[UMFan83]

Pour me a chalice full of Haterade, slave.

 

But seriously, point me a single superstar NBA player that didn't have moments/games/series like this. It's an inherent part of becoming a better player.

 

Magic and Kobe.

 

Well Kobe had a bunch of air balls against the Jazz one year but he was like 18 or 19 at the time. Basically Rose sucks because he didn't have a prime Kareem or Shaq on his team.

 

2004 Finals against Detroit, Kobe shot 38.1% from the field (only in Game 2 was he over 37%), and was 4-23 (17.4%) from three. He averaged 22.6 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 4.4 apg and 3.6 turnovers per game. All of those were significantly worse than any other playoff series that year.

 

And that's even more indefensible because IIRC, the Pistons were single-covering Shaq and refused to leave the other Lakers open for shots. Shaq scored 34 points on 13-16 shooting while Kobe was 10-27 in Game 1. He also had 36 on 16-21 shooting in Game 4 while Kobe was only 8-25. Shaq averaged four more points and shot 25% better from the field (he never shot worse than 50% in a game in the Finals) than Kobe did that series but took six less shots per game.

 

I'm not sure if Kobe had any other series where he played so poorly but that was one that popped into my head immediately.

 

Thanks, that actually makes me feel a little better about Rose's performance.

[Flames24Rulz]

Okay, rookie basketball fan here and only really interested when the Bulls are good.

 

I preface my question with that statement. How do Noah and Boozer have the contracts they have when neither one of them could see the court in the 4th quarter of an elimination game? That seems like really bad paper to both of them.

 

I just couldn't imagine a Kane, Hossa, Keith etc not seeing the ice for 8-10 minutes of the 3rd period. I know it's not a great comparison, but it seems really shocking

 

It wasn't just this game. I brought up the point during the game that a few of the Bulls wins in these playoffs came when both of those guys were relegated to the bench in the 4th quarter. Those are going to be a couple of awful contracts in the coming years.

 

Taj and Kurt outplayed both of them yesterday. When Omer was getting significant burn in the 4th quarter of games against Atlanta, he also outperformed Noah. I didn't have a problem at all with them sitting on the bench for the entire 4th.

[Old Style]

Does anyone have a gif of LeBron's acting job when DRose got called for a foul for supposedly hitting him in the face?

[ChiCubsFan]

I did. Somewhere in the middle of blowing a 12 point lead we should have substituted Boozer and Noah. Taj and Kurt were giving us nothing at that point. We could have used Boozers offense. Noah may have been able to help on LeBron on defense a little bit too.

 

That said, the biggest fault of Thibs (outside of never changing/developing an offensive gameplan) was leaving Brewer on LeBron for so long. Plus having Deng guard Miller and then Rose on Wade. I understand not wanting Deng to pick up 6, but at that point he wasn't doing anything on the offensive end anyways, so we may as well used his defense. Plus when it got down to 3 or so minutes left you gotta just play him and if he fouls out so be it.

[Exile on Waveland]

honestly, i'd like to know why these things don't happen to any other city. chicago is cursed in every sense of the word

really?

 

This is how sulley copes. He got bold enough to make that "Golem of Akron" soliloquy a month or two ago and should've seen this coming.

 

you have to admit that it was creative. i don't think i get enough credit for thinking up [expletive] like that.

 

You certainly didn't that time. I was rolling with laughter at the Golem stuff. In fact, I kind of chuckle now just thinking about it.

[Tyrant]

Its insane to say that this is the best season Rose will have. He was one of the 5-6 best players in the NBA this year at an age where most kids are trying to lead their team to the final four.

 

Even if his shooting and other physicals skills stay exactly the same - and I don't know why they would - he'll improve greatly just by getting more experience and making better decisions.

[TruffleShuffle]

Its insane to say that this is the best season Rose will have. He was one of the 5-6 best players in the NBA this year at an age where most kids are trying to lead their team to the final four.

 

most 22 year olds with nba talent are definitely not trying to lead their team to the final four.

[wolf stansson]

Its insane to say that this is the best season Rose will have. He was one of the 5-6 best players in the NBA this year at an age where most kids are trying to lead their team to the final four.

 

most 22 year olds with nba talent are definitely not trying to lead their team to the final four.

That's not what he said.

[Exile on Waveland]

Its insane to say that this is the best season Rose will have. He was one of the 5-6 best players in the NBA this year at an age where most kids are trying to lead their team to the final four.

 

most 22 year olds with nba talent are definitely not trying to lead their team to the final four.

That's not what he said.

 

Well, if we're getting all technical, he said "most kids" and "most kids" are most certainly not trying to lead their team to the Final Four -- they're trying to ingest as much alcohol as possible and make as many notches on their bedpost as possible.

[CUBZ99]

It is too bad Joe Johnson didn't sign with the Bulls. SG has got to be a top priority for the team this off season.

[Tyrant]

Its insane to say that this is the best season Rose will have. He was one of the 5-6 best players in the NBA this year at an age where most kids are trying to lead their team to the final four.

 

most 22 year olds with nba talent are definitely not trying to lead their team to the final four.

That's not what he said.

 

It also isn't relevant to my overall point, which is that Rose will get better.

[illiniguy]

Its insane to say that this is the best season Rose will have. He was one of the 5-6 best players in the NBA this year at an age where most kids are trying to lead their team to the final four.

 

most 22 year olds with nba talent are definitely not trying to lead their team to the final four.

That's not what he said.

 

It also isn't relevant to my overall point, which is that Rose will get better.

I just don't see where. He's not suddenly going to become a great jump shooter if he didn't after spending the last two offseasons working on that. I guess maybe he will start to get more calls as a result of his stature.

[wolf stansson]

Its insane to say that this is the best season Rose will have. He was one of the 5-6 best players in the NBA this year at an age where most kids are trying to lead their team to the final four.

 

most 22 year olds with nba talent are definitely not trying to lead their team to the final four.

That's not what he said.

 

It also isn't relevant to my overall point, which is that Rose will get better.

I just don't see where. He's not suddenly going to become a great jump shooter if he didn't after spending the last two offseasons working on that. I guess maybe he will start to get more calls as a result of his stature.

Post up game, better decision making, general experience and although it's sketchy to use an exception to prove a rule, Jason Kidd used to be a brick layer, now he's a very good 3 point shooter. It's not impossible to be a better shooter. Especially if he continues to get stronger in the gym and can get more endurance and lift on his jumper. His shot goes flat because he gets tired.

 

Barring injury, it's impossible he won't get better to some degree.

[Tyrant]

I just don't see where. He's not suddenly going to become a great jump shooter if he didn't after spending the last two offseasons working on that. I guess maybe he will start to get more calls as a result of his stature.

 

Like I said earlier, even if his physical skills don't improve, he'll be a better player simply by improving his decision making.

 

And really, you don't think a 22 year old can even slightly improve his jump shot over the next 4-5 years? C'mon.

[illiniguy]

I just don't see where. He's not suddenly going to become a great jump shooter if he didn't after spending the last two offseasons working on that. I guess maybe he will start to get more calls as a result of his stature.

 

Like I said earlier, even if his physical skills don't improve, he'll be a better player simply by improving his decision making.

 

And really, you don't think a 22 year old can even slightly improve his jump shot over the next 4-5 years? C'mon.

I'm of the belief that your shooting can only improve so much. That's the one skill that I just don't think you can say, "I'll improve this." I know it's fun to point to Jason Kidd and say he did, but it's one guy and it didn't happen until all other parts of his game had eroded to where it was all he could do. I'm a Bulls fan. I hope Derrick can get a lot better, but I also think he played at an all time level for point guards and am not sure he can improve a lot on the year he just had.

 

And I didn't realize that his(Rose) 23.5 per would be good for dead last on MJs career total if you don't count the 17 games he played in 94 after baseball and if you are like me and pretend the Washington experience didn't happen. Damn Jordan was otherworldly.

[imb]

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/29612173

 

Scottie Pippen: "Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play in the game, but I may go as far to say LeBron James is probably the greatest player to ever play the game."

[illiniguy]

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/29612173

 

Scottie Pippen: "Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play in the game, but I may go as far to say LeBron James is probably the greatest player to ever play the game."

Thankfully we have advanced stats that say otherwise. But, LeBron's close.

[Banedon]

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/29612173

 

Scottie Pippen: "Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play in the game, but I may go as far to say LeBron James is probably the greatest player to ever play the game."

Thankfully we have advanced stats that say otherwise. But, LeBron's close.

 

I admit I don't know a lot about advanced basketball stats, but do they take into account the ways that the league has changed since Jordan played? IE: Rule changes, expansion, dominant teams in the West, etc?

[illiniguy]

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/29612173

 

Scottie Pippen: "Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play in the game, but I may go as far to say LeBron James is probably the greatest player to ever play the game."

Thankfully we have advanced stats that say otherwise. But, LeBron's close.

 

I admit I don't know a lot about advanced basketball stats, but do they take into account the ways that the league has changed since Jordan played? IE: Rule changes, expansion, dominant teams in the West, etc?

What expansion since Jordan played? It measures on pace of the game versus peers. It cannot account properly for defense though. But, in this case, both were very good defenders.

Edited May 27, 2011 by illiniguy

[Tyrant]

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/29612173

 

Scottie Pippen: "Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play in the game, but I may go as far to say LeBron James is probably the greatest player to ever play the game."

Thankfully we have advanced stats that say otherwise. But, LeBron's close.

 

I admit I don't know a lot about advanced basketball stats, but do they take into account the ways that the league has changed since Jordan played? IE: Rule changes, expansion, dominant teams in the West, etc?

 

The hand check rule would probably be the biggest difference

[illiniguy]

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/29612173

 

Scottie Pippen: "Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play in the game, but I may go as far to say LeBron James is probably the greatest player to ever play the game."

Thankfully we have advanced stats that say otherwise. But, LeBron's close.

 

I admit I don't know a lot about advanced basketball stats, but do they take into account the ways that the league has changed since Jordan played? IE: Rule changes, expansion, dominant teams in the West, etc?

 

The hand check rule would probably be the biggest difference

Which would have helped Jordan immensly.

[Banedon]

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/29612173

 

Scottie Pippen: "Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play in the game, but I may go as far to say LeBron James is probably the greatest player to ever play the game."

Thankfully we have advanced stats that say otherwise. But, LeBron's close.

 

I admit I don't know a lot about advanced basketball stats, but do they take into account the ways that the league has changed since Jordan played? IE: Rule changes, expansion, dominant teams in the West, etc?

What expansion since Jordan played? It measures on pace of the game versus peers. It cannot account properly for defense though. But, in this case, both were very good defenders.

 

In my head the Raptors and Grizzlies were since his retirement. My bad.

 

The hand check rule would probably be the biggest difference

 

Does defensive 3 secs counterbalance the removal of illegal defense?