2011 Chicago Bulls Playoff Thread (5/26 7:30pm CST - TNT)

[UMFan83]

There probably were some iffy calls but what do you expect. Stop getting beat off the dribble and letting him get to the rim and there won't be calls. Derrick Rose has proven he can go recklessly to the rim and finish better than just about anyone in the NBA so its hard not to give him the benefit of the doubt when he beats his immediate defender and shuffles through a small hole in the defense.

 

It's not a part of his game I'm proud of, mostly because I've hated it since Iverson was doing it back in the early 00's and loathed it when DWade would stand at the top of the key and just look at the paint to get 2 FTs during the 06 finals, but as long as its a part of the game, its gonna happen.

 

I do think there was enough of a backlash that its going to be a little different tonight, and certainly different at Conseco later this week. But he's still gonna get some of those iffy calls if your defense is getting beat like that.

[chuckywang]

Some dude on realgm made a video of all of Rose's drawn fouls:

 

Q1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRPSdFntARc&feature=player_embedded

Q2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7RuVoiNSk&feature=player_embedded

Q3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhG8zfVHFe8&feature=player_embedded

Q4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUbG-Hz4nq4&feature=player_embedded

 

Check them out yourself.

[bukie]

Oh, and thanks for the stats bukie, I'm going to kill a lot of time on there.

Yeah, Hoopdata is awesome.

 

EDIT: You should check out the in-depth box scores for each game. It's insane.

Edited April 18, 2011 by bukie

[bukie]

Just FYI, the Pacers definitely implied that they were not too happy with how they were officiated regarding Rose. They felt that on some of the plays that they're jumping straight up and that as Rose is rising he's jumping into them which should get a no call.

There may have been 1-2 like that, but the vast majority of the time Rose drove the lane, the Pacers' bigs were fouling hard to make sure he didn't get the shot in. Rose is historically extremely good at avoiding contact when the opponent doesn't jump into him or hack at him.

 

The one notable play I can remember is near the end when Rose got the and-1, when Hibbert initially was set for the charge, Rose jumped around him to the right, and Hibbert proceeded to slide into him with the body. Even though his hands were straight up, he still slid into him, and it was a pretty clear foul.

Looking again, the diciest calls were the first one in the first quarter, the first in the 3rd quarter and the last in the 3rd quarter. Two of them, it looks like Rose did something similar to the one I mentioned at the end where he jumped to the right, and the defender slid over and hip-checked him (before falling backwards). The other play Hibbert jumped straight up, but he was well inside the charge circle, too.

[CubColtPacer]

Some dude on realgm made a video of all of Rose's drawn fouls:

 

Q1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRPSdFntARc&feature=player_embedded

Q2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7RuVoiNSk&feature=player_embedded

Q3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhG8zfVHFe8&feature=player_embedded

Q4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUbG-Hz4nq4&feature=player_embedded

 

Check them out yourself.

 

I saw around 8 obvious ones and around 4 questionable ones (I'm not sure exactly how many there were). But on the 4 questionable ones there wasn't a replay and with a replay it might have been put into the obvious category. They were all just body fouls and it's hard to tell if a defender jumps sideways or forward or gets a lot of contact by sliding in when you're in real time.

[bukie]

Here's a question I don't know the answer to: On a rebound where a big taps a ball back to a guard, who gets credit for the rebound? Is it the initial tap, or the guy who eventually controls the ball?

[CubColtPacer]

Just FYI, the Pacers definitely implied that they were not too happy with how they were officiated regarding Rose. They felt that on some of the plays that they're jumping straight up and that as Rose is rising he's jumping into them which should get a no call.

There may have been 1-2 like that, but the vast majority of the time Rose drove the lane, the Pacers' bigs were fouling hard to make sure he didn't get the shot in. Rose is historically extremely good at avoiding contact when the opponent doesn't jump into him or hack at him.

 

The one notable play I can remember is near the end when Rose got the and-1, when Hibbert initially was set for the charge, Rose jumped around him to the right, and Hibbert proceeded to slide into him with the body. Even though his hands were straight up, he still slid into him, and it was a pretty clear foul.

Looking again, the diciest calls were the first one in the first quarter, the first in the 3rd quarter and the last in the 3rd quarter. Two of them, it looks like Rose did something similar to the one I mentioned at the end where he jumped to the right, and the defender slid over and hip-checked him (before falling backwards). The other play Hibbert jumped straight up, but he was well inside the charge circle, too.

 

The charge circle wouldn't matter on this would it? The Pacers weren't saying that Rose was guilty of a charge (in fact they say it's impossible to draw a charge on him) but just that they shouldn't get blocking fouls.

 

And the times you mentioned match up with the ones I caught as well. I would possibly add the second one in the second quarter.

[bukie]

The charge circle wouldn't matter on this would it? The Pacers weren't saying that Rose was guilty of a charge (in fact they say it's impossible to draw a charge on him) but just that they shouldn't get blocking fouls.

 

And the times you mentioned match up with the ones I caught as well. I would possibly add the second one in the second quarter.

I was under the impression that the "impossible to draw a charge on him" was a subtle dig at the officiating as well.

[Soul]

I hate the way the NBA is officiated, but I doubt those types of drive-to-the-basket plays are going to become no-calls around the league.

 

If it's not going to be applied differently league-wide, then it shouldn't be changed just for Indiana because they complain about it with D Rose.

 

 

 

If someone can guarantee it would be a no-call everywhere, then fine.

 

I'm guessing what will actually happen is that Rose will now get fewer calls because Indy complained, while guys like D Wade will continue to get the call every time.

[WrigleyField 22]

While there were some questionable looking fouls, there were a couple of questionable non-fouls.

 

NBA refs can be biased, inconsistent, and outright terrible, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt if I don't have a replay to watch from a better angle.

 

They'll miss some fouls and call some non-fouls.

[chuckywang]

So the inevitable hate that comes with greatness has begun: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/how-refs-dominated-game-1-of-2011-nba-playoffs

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't know enough about the Pacers to know the differences between Vogel and O' Brien, but those 3 games against the Pacers he's referencing with low FTA totals were against O' Brien, and the 1 with the 21 FTAs were against Vogel.

[Old Style]

I don't know about you guys, but I love being a fan of a team that gets preferential treatment from the league. So glad David Stern and his NBA machine want us to win. First he fixed the lottery for us to get DRose and now he told the officials to show us the love, too. Life is good.

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't know about you guys, but I love being a fan of a team that gets preferential treatment from the league. So glad David Stern and his NBA machine want us to win. First he fixed the lottery for us to get DRose and now he told the officials to show us the love, too. Life is good.

 

He's just trying to balance out all those fouls Rose didn't get called the past 2 years.

 

Plus he still feels bad about the Jordan suspension.

[UMFan83]

Here's a question I don't know the answer to: On a rebound where a big taps a ball back to a guard, who gets credit for the rebound? Is it the initial tap, or the guy who eventually controls the ball?

 

guy who controls the ball. It's how Rose got his triple double, on a backtap off a missed shot.

[UMFan83]

I don't know about you guys, but I love being a fan of a team that gets preferential treatment from the league. So glad David Stern and his NBA machine want us to win. First he fixed the lottery for us to get DRose and now he told the officials to show us the love, too. Life is good.

 

He's just trying to balance out all those fouls Rose didn't get called the past 2 years.

 

Plus he still feels bad about the Jordan suspension.

 

I thought the no call on the Russell pushoff was Stern's "sorry for suspending you big guy" intervention?

 

I'm pretty sure Saturday was a "sorry, I just went back and looked at all those tapes your crazy fans set me, kirk hinrich really did get fouled all those times now that you mention it, i guess its because hes unathletic and white so we didnt realize it and plus your team wasn't very interesting" make up for the Bulls

[CubColtPacer]

I don't know enough about the Pacers to know the differences between Vogel and O' Brien, but those 3 games against the Pacers he's referencing with low FTA totals were against O' Brien, and the 1 with the 21 FTAs were against Vogel.

 

I'll go ahead and list the free throw numbers for playoff teams since Vogel took over (I'm not sure about the numbers either and while ESPN claims to have splits by month they're not working):

 

Portland: Pacers 43, Portland 22

At Miami: Miami 28, Pacers 20

vs Miami: Pacers 29, Miami 26

at Oklahoma City: Pacers 39, OKC 34

At Dallas: Dallas 34, Pacers 28

Philadelphia: Pacers 31, 76rs 15

At Knicks: Knicks 34, Pacers 27

Vs Knicks: Pacers 30, Knicks 30

At Boston: Boston 33, Pacers 13

Vs Chicago: Bulls 42, Pacers 35

At Memphis: Pacers 26, Grizzlies 17

Vs Boston: Boston 36, Pacers 22

At New Orleans: NO 24, Pacers 19

Atlanta: Atlanta 36, Pacers 33

Knicks: Knicks 43, Pacers 33

Orlando game was meaningless

 

Averages: Opponents 30.3, Pacers 28.5

Actual Game 1 totals: Bulls 32, Pacers 17

 

So nothing too far out of whack. The disparity is a little large but mostly because the Pacers didn't get to the line very much in game 1. Vogel definitely preaches toughness, an inside game, and not running as much as O'Brien did so that would lead to more foul calls on both sides.

[UMFan83]

Averages: Opponents 30.3, Pacers 28.5

Actual Game 1 totals: Bulls 32, Pacers 17

 

So nothing too far out of whack. The disparity is a little large but mostly because the Pacers didn't get to the line very much in game 1. Vogel definitely preaches toughness, an inside game, and not running as much as O'Brien did so that would lead to more foul calls on both sides.

 

maybe the Pacers didn't get to the line much because they were making 60% of their 3 pointer attempts and Hansborough was pretending like he was casually shooting 15 footers at the Pacers practice facility.

[SouthSideRyan]

Like anyone could shoot 70% at practice.

[UMFan83]

Like anyone could shoot 70% at practice.

 

practice? PRACTICE? How in the hell can I make my shooting better by practicing?

[SpongeWorthy]

Rose will get a lot of FTAs against any team that employs that defensive strategy against him whether they're one of the teams that gets favorable treatment from the refs or not. He was getting into the lane at will.

 

I expect Miami, Boston, LA, et. al. to take the ball out of his hands by trapping outside the 3 point line and showing on most screens.

[bukie]

As long as Rose is isolating on Collison, he's getting to the rim at will. The Pacers need to trap him out high to keep it from happening, because Rose can avoid a charge pretty easily, at which point the Pacers are left either going for the block and likely fouling regularly, or not contesting the shot closely and letting him take whatever he wants at the rim.

[UMFan83]

As long as Rose is isolating on Collison, he's getting to the rim at will. The Pacers need to trap him out high to keep it from happening, because Rose can avoid a charge pretty easily, at which point the Pacers are left either going for the block and likely fouling regularly, or not contesting the shot closely and letting him take whatever he wants at the rim.

 

And they did that a lot in the 3rd and 4th quarter by bringing Hibbert out to the 3 point line to defend when Thomas or Gibson were in. Wasn't exactly a trap per say but its intent was to make it hard for Rose to get around 2 guys.

[chuckywang]

Let me pose this hypothetical:

 

If the Bulls go 16-0 in the playoffs, will they be a greater team this year than any Jordan-led team?

[UMFan83]

Let me pose this hypothetical:

 

If the Bulls go 16-0 in the playoffs, will they be a greater team this year than any Jordan-led team?

 

No...but it would be a lot closer.