Pujols signs with Angels pg 151

[XZero771679666304]

It still blows my mind that they're this [expletive] cheap. Yeah, fine, the stadium and village costs, but come on...there are teams that would kill to have the Cardinals' revenue stream and they're acting like they're barely able to spend more than the Royals. Yeah, I know the payroll jumped up between 2009 and 2010, but come on, this is embarrassing.

 

 

The only things I can come up with are:

 

A)This is the best they could do while feeling they could field a competitive team around Albert, given that they'll have to pay guys like Wainwright soon as well. They made the offer with mixed expectation and prayed Pujols would take it, and figured it would be close to what they could negotiate.

 

B)They've been drinking the "Albert loves St. Louis" Kool-Aid and thought Al would gladly give them another huge bargain.

 

C)It is just a token offer, and they're preparing for life after Pujols.

 

D)It was an initial offer, with the expectation they have time after the season, but before he hit FA.

 

Regardless of which of those it is, it was an ill-advised move, since it can't be viewed as anything other than an insult. Anyone with any sense would realize you have to start with Howard's AAV as a minimum and work up from there.

 

And if that was a serious offer, and is firm enough that they didn't even bother with a second after receiving feedback from Pujols' camp, I see little hope for Cards fans that he is in St. Louis after 2011.

 

I woke up this morning fully expecting that I would see Pujols extended by the Cards, and will go to bed not seeing how he possibly could be.

[Sammy Sofa]

It still blows my mind that they're this [expletive] cheap. Yeah, fine, the stadium and village costs, but come on...there are teams that would kill to have the Cardinals' revenue stream and they're acting like they're barely able to spend more than the Royals. Yeah, I know the payroll jumped up between 2009 and 2010, but come on, this is embarrassing.

 

I dont know...4th smallest market in baseball and even if the Cardinals payroll was at 120 million, he'd make up 25% of their payroll. I realize that they operate and produce revenues that a mid-market club would, but thats only 15 million less than what the Cubs are spending this year. I personally think they would have a hard time fielding a competitive team with a $30 million player on the payroll.

 

There's a big gap between $30 million and $21 million. Just that they'd be that far apart from what the greatest hitter of all time is asking for, a guy who came up in their own system, is laughable. I mean, he's already getting $16 million this year, so it's not like they have to look at $27-30 million like it's coming out of nowhere. It would push their projected 2011 payroll of about $95 million to $109 million. OK, so he makes up a huge chunk of their payroll...HE'S ALBERT [expletive] PUJOLS. He's going to, and should, make up a giant chunk of any team's payroll. I can't tell if it's cheapness or stupidity (like the Loshe contract), but it's sure amazing to watch.

 

Aren't they usually in the top 10 of baseball revenues each year and making around $200 million?

[XZero771679666304]

It still blows my mind that they're this [expletive] cheap. Yeah, fine, the stadium and village costs, but come on...there are teams that would kill to have the Cardinals' revenue stream and they're acting like they're barely able to spend more than the Royals. Yeah, I know the payroll jumped up between 2009 and 2010, but come on, this is embarrassing.

 

I dont know...4th smallest market in baseball and even if the Cardinals payroll was at 120 million, he'd make up 25% of their payroll. I realize that they operate and produce revenues that a mid-market club would, but thats only 15 million less than what the Cubs are spending this year. I personally think they would have a hard time fielding a competitive team with a $30 million player on the payroll.

 

Which is why I hope they go crazy and cave. I don't think they are that foolish, but if they were, they'd have to kiss Waino and Carp goodbye, and it would have been for nothing but the knowledge they still had Albert.

 

Still, I'm just shocked they didn't make a more viable offer. 7/175 or 8/200 would at least have less of an affront. That offer is disrespectful.

[shnsajax]

How much does a tampering fine go for nowadays. [expletive] it, someone from the organization should how much they think Albert is worth.

[Guest]

I have a feeling the Pujols threads could get epic around here for the next year.

[Pushfrog98]

It still blows my mind that they're this [expletive] cheap. Yeah, fine, the stadium and village costs, but come on...there are teams that would kill to have the Cardinals' revenue stream and they're acting like they're barely able to spend more than the Royals. Yeah, I know the payroll jumped up between 2009 and 2010, but come on, this is embarrassing.

 

I dont know...4th smallest market in baseball and even if the Cardinals payroll was at 120 million, he'd make up 25% of their payroll. I realize that they operate and produce revenues that a mid-market club would, but thats only 15 million less than what the Cubs are spending this year. I personally think they would have a hard time fielding a competitive team with a $30 million player on the payroll.

 

There's a big gap between $30 million and $21 million. Just that they'd be that far apart from what the greatest hitter of all time is asking for, a guy who came up in their own system, is laughable. I mean, he's already getting $16 million this year, so it's not like they have to look at $27-30 million like it's coming out of nowhere. It would push their projected 2011 payroll of about $95 million to $109 million. OK, so he makes up a huge chunk of their payroll...HE'S ALBERT [expletive] PUJOLS. He's going to, and should, make up a giant chunk of any team's payroll. I can't tell if it's cheapness or stupidity (like the Loshe contract), but it's sure amazing to watch.

 

Aren't they usually in the top 10 of baseball revenues each year and making around $200 million?

The Cardinals, while #4 in attendance last season, had the 13th highest payroll (lower even than Detroit, Minnesota, and Seattle). Had Albert Pujols made $30 million in 2010 (instead of $15 million) their payroll would've been the 7th highest in baseball, just slightly ahead of the White Sox but still $14 million behind Detroit at #6.

I don't think adding an additional $15 million to the payroll (which is what his contract would have done) would "handcuff" a team that draws tons of fans and sells tons of merchandise.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Pushfrog98

[DivineBovine]

What's the over under on how many pages this thread gets to. It could break the NSBB record if his free agency drags on. 17 pages would be just scratching the surface.

[Careless]

If the Cards only offered $20 million a year, they know he's 37 years old or something.

[TruffleShuffle]

It still blows my mind that they're this [expletive] cheap. Yeah, fine, the stadium and village costs, but come on...there are teams that would kill to have the Cardinals' revenue stream and they're acting like they're barely able to spend more than the Royals. Yeah, I know the payroll jumped up between 2009 and 2010, but come on, this is embarrassing.

 

I dont know...4th smallest market in baseball and even if the Cardinals payroll was at 120 million, he'd make up 25% of their payroll. I realize that they operate and produce revenues that a mid-market club would, but thats only 15 million less than what the Cubs are spending this year. I personally think they would have a hard time fielding a competitive team with a $30 million player on the payroll.

 

it's not the 4th smallest market in baseball. it's the 7th smallest, and that is just basing things on the standard TV market. obviously the cardinals have a lot bigger pull in the midwest than their immediate TV market - all of southern IL is cardinals country, same with pretty much all of MO except for the area around KC. plus it's a very passionate fan base. they might be behind places like miami and tampa, but nobody gives a [expletive] about baseball there.

[Guest]

It still blows my mind that they're this [expletive] cheap. Yeah, fine, the stadium and village costs, but come on...there are teams that would kill to have the Cardinals' revenue stream and they're acting like they're barely able to spend more than the Royals. Yeah, I know the payroll jumped up between 2009 and 2010, but come on, this is embarrassing.

 

I dont know...4th smallest market in baseball and even if the Cardinals payroll was at 120 million, he'd make up 25% of their payroll. I realize that they operate and produce revenues that a mid-market club would, but thats only 15 million less than what the Cubs are spending this year. I personally think they would have a hard time fielding a competitive team with a $30 million player on the payroll.

 

it's not the 4th smallest market in baseball. it's the 7th smallest, and that is just basing things on the standard TV market. obviously the cardinals have a lot bigger pull in the midwest than their immediate TV market - all of southern IL is cardinals country, same with pretty much all of MO except for the area around KC. plus it's a very passionate fan base. they might be behind places like miami and tampa, but nobody gives a [expletive] about baseball there.

 

I agree. St. Louis metro is a small market but their fan base isn't just relegated to that area. Heck, isn't the Memphis metro and the majority of Arkansas also primarily Cardinal fans? Plus they're an old franchise which means they have had a long time to build up a fan base which will include people who have wisely gotten the hell out of St. Louis.

[XZero771679666304]

The bottom line is that the Cardinals foolishly gambled that Albert would give them another discount for the privilege of playing in St. Louis, and unless the step up in the 11th hour with a big time offer far beyond their previous one, they'll pay for their arrogance dearly.

 

If Albert leaves - and especially if he were to join the Cubs - it will be devastating to the fanbase. A quick trip around the interwebs will tell you how incomprehensible losing Pujols would be to many St. Louis fans. They consider him this generation's Musial or Gibson.

 

To Albert, the greatest player of his generation, hit all the big milestones in another uniform - maybe even enter the Hall in another cap - it would wound Cardinal nation. It'd be a PR nightmare (and totally awesome).

[StarlinOnYou]

8 years / $230M

 

Come on down Albert!

[MWV]

What's the over under on how many pages this thread gets to. It could break the NSBB record if his free agency drags on. 17 pages would be just scratching the surface.

Considering that this is also the Fielder thread, yeah, it's gonna get out of hand.

[Sammy Sofa]

It still blows my mind that they're this [expletive] cheap. Yeah, fine, the stadium and village costs, but come on...there are teams that would kill to have the Cardinals' revenue stream and they're acting like they're barely able to spend more than the Royals. Yeah, I know the payroll jumped up between 2009 and 2010, but come on, this is embarrassing.

 

I dont know...4th smallest market in baseball and even if the Cardinals payroll was at 120 million, he'd make up 25% of their payroll. I realize that they operate and produce revenues that a mid-market club would, but thats only 15 million less than what the Cubs are spending this year. I personally think they would have a hard time fielding a competitive team with a $30 million player on the payroll.

 

There's a big gap between $30 million and $21 million. Just that they'd be that far apart from what the greatest hitter of all time is asking for, a guy who came up in their own system, is laughable. I mean, he's already getting $16 million this year, so it's not like they have to look at $27-30 million like it's coming out of nowhere. It would push their projected 2011 payroll of about $95 million to $109 million. OK, so he makes up a huge chunk of their payroll...HE'S ALBERT [expletive] PUJOLS. He's going to, and should, make up a giant chunk of any team's payroll. I can't tell if it's cheapness or stupidity (like the Loshe contract), but it's sure amazing to watch.

 

Aren't they usually in the top 10 of baseball revenues each year and making around $200 million?

The Cardinals, while #4 in attendance last season, had the 13th highest payroll (lower even than Detroit, Minnesota, and Seattle). Had Albert Pujols made $30 million in 2010 (instead of $15 million) their payroll would've been the 7th highest in baseball, just slightly ahead of the White Sox but still $14 million behind Detroit at #6.

I don't think adding an additional $15 million to the payroll (which is what his contract would have done) would "handcuff" a team that draws tons of fans and sells tons of merchandise.

 

Exactly. It just makes their reported offer that much more ridiculous.

[MWV]

If the Cards only offered $20 million a year, they know he's 37 years old or something.

All accounts I've read state the Cards' willingness to go 9-10 years, but at $19-21 million AAV. They wouldn't give that AAV to a 47 year old. I think the Cards are just some combination of delusional/cheap. Maybe they think that having NY/BOS out of the potential mix of suitors depresses his value. Maybe they think Albert loves STL soooooooo much that he will essentially pay them $8-10 million a season to play there. Clearly, they are wrong.

I'm beginning to believe that this was just Contract Negotiations Dinner Theatre, and DeWitt and Co. were merely offering enough to save face, knowing they couldn't afford to meet his demands. Much of the STL fanbase has been gulping down the "Its a Privelege to Wear the Birds on the Bat" kool-aid for years now. Those folks are ready and willing to blame Pujols for leaving this deal on the table.

[Sammy Sofa]

The Red Sox and Yankees are not out of the mix.

[daske17]

The Red Sox and Yankees are not out of the mix.

 

Red Sox, no. But the Yankees literally have nowhere to play Pujols. Texiera has 1B locked down for most of his contract, A-Rod and/or Jeter will be moved to the DH position eventually and that's about it for Pujols range. Unless the Yankees are convinced they can convert someone to an OF position to make room for Pujols at DH.

[OleMissCub]

Pujols' agent should be like "do you realize that Carl freaking Crawford now makes more per season than what you guys offered to one of the greatest baseball players of all time?"

[Guest]

The Red Sox and Yankees are not out of the mix.

 

 

I mean... you never know and everything... but I'd say it's pretty safe to say they pretty much are.

[Northside Blues]

I dont know...4th smallest market in baseball and even if the Cardinals payroll was at 120 million, he'd make up 25% of their payroll. I realize that they operate and produce revenues that a mid-market club would, but thats only 15 million less than what the Cubs are spending this year. I personally think they would have a hard time fielding a competitive team with a $30 million player on the payroll.

 

 

Not exactly true. By size of TV markets they are 7th. By MSA they are 9th. By CSA they are 6th. They are a small market team, but they have some things going for them. There's no NBA franchise. There's no dominant college sports program, like a USC, Michigan or Ohio State. There's an NFL team and them. I guess there's the NHL... Not sure that counts. It's also a sports happy city/area and baseball is ingrained into the city. That plus it's ideal situation near the confluence of the Mississippi and Ohio rivers means that there are a lot major business HQ's/distribution centers to invest in the team, through advertising, etc. St Louis, for example, has more fortune 500 HQs than Los Angeles, Boston and Philadelphia. Add all that together and if you were to rank teams by areas of potential profitability, the Cardinals would probably rank in the 10-15 range. Definitely a mid-market team. I think they're also top five among MLB teams in merchandising, not sure how much of that is shared though.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Northside Blues

[MWV]

The Red Sox and Yankees are not out of the mix.

I hope not. I want him the hell out of the NLC (with the obvious exception of the Cubs).

[Guest]

The Red Sox and Yankees are not out of the mix.

I hope not. I want him the hell out of the NLC (with the obvious exception of the Cubs).

 

 

With them out, if he goes anywhere, it's almost certainly to the Cubs, IMO.

[Guest]

You guys really think those teams would throw $30M for 10 years at a DH?

 

Granted, he's the best hitter in baseball, but it isn't very hard to get good production at DH for a LOT less money. Diminishing returns and all...

[OleMissCub]

The Red Sox and Yankees are not out of the mix.

I hope not. I want him the hell out of the NLC (with the obvious exception of the Cubs).

 

 

With them out, if he goes anywhere, it's almost certainly to the Cubs, IMO.

 

Would the Dodgers not be major players?

[RynoRules]

The Red Sox and Yankees are not out of the mix.

I hope not. I want him the hell out of the NLC (with the obvious exception of the Cubs).

 

 

With them out, if he goes anywhere, it's almost certainly to the Cubs, IMO.

 

That's wishful thinking. I won't believe any of this until it's November and he files for free agency. If he bolts from Stl at all (there's nothing to say that he won't re-sign even after he becomes a FA), is he really going to want to move-on to his former team's chief rival? The last guy of any prominence who did that was Johnny Damon, and he isn't "normal".