2010-2011 Chicago Bulls Thread

[UMFan83]

I don't know how you can say Chris Paul is the 3rd best PG in the league when he's leading the league in PER right now and by a decent margin. And the funny thing about that is that those numbers are slightly below the numbers he has typically had in the NBA. As much as I love Rose, Chris Paul is clearly the best PG in the NBA, and might be the best actual player, but there's understandably a lot of debate there.

[BigSlick]

wow that was a pretty satisfying road trip, scary to think with a few bounces here and there, call here and there, and they could have swept the entire thing! This team is playing extraordinarily well and without their supposed 2nd best (perhaps 3rd the way Noah is playing?) player

 

its weird too because i'm basically frustrated with every player on the court not named Rose and Noah: Deng is infuriatingly inconsistent, Korver isn't making shots he should though when i look at his shooting stats his numbers are amazingly decent, Brewer and Watson have super AIDS and the revolving front court besides an injured Taj aint all that impressive. But they are 9-6 and playing really good basketball. Maybe I'm just too picky.

 

are we going to do another boring 'post your fav PG' discussion or will we talk about the Bulls?

[SpongeWorthy]

I don't know how you can say Chris Paul is the 3rd best PG in the league when he's leading the league in PER right now and by a decent margin. And the funny thing about that is that those numbers are slightly below the numbers he has typically had in the NBA. As much as I love Rose, Chris Paul is clearly the best PG in the NBA, and might be the best actual player, but there's understandably a lot of debate there.

 

PER is for losers.

[SpongeWorthy]

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/sportatorium/Carnac.jpg

 

"Al Horford, Tyrus Thomas, and Manu Ginobili"

 

Who are three players that have a higher PER than both Kobe Bryant and Lebron James?

[SpongeWorthy]

.

[UMFan83]

I don't know how you can say Chris Paul is the 3rd best PG in the league when he's leading the league in PER right now and by a decent margin. And the funny thing about that is that those numbers are slightly below the numbers he has typically had in the NBA. As much as I love Rose, Chris Paul is clearly the best PG in the NBA, and might be the best actual player, but there's understandably a lot of debate there.

 

PER is for losers.

 

Whatever. Look at just about any metric you can find and Chris Paul will be right at the top and higher than all other PGs in the league. He's currently leading the league in win shares per 48 minutes, 3rd in value added, 3rd in defensive rating, leads the league in steals per game, 2nd in assists.

[SpongeWorthy]

I was mostly kidding around. CP3 is obviously amazing and is definitely a top 2 PG, although the way DWill always seems to kick his ass you can definitely make a case that he is the best.

 

Rose is clearly #3 though and closing quickly.

[bukie]

Top 5 players in WP82 (win shares per 82 games) as of Thursday:

 

1. LeBron James - 24.9

2. Deron Williams - 24.1

3. Kobe Bryant - 21.6

4. Kevin Durant - 20.5

5. Derrick Rose - 19.9

[Soul]

Top 5 players in WP82 (win shares per 82 games) as of Thursday:

 

1. LeBron James - 24.9

2. Deron Williams - 24.1

3. Kobe Bryant - 21.6

4. Kevin Durant - 20.5

5. Derrick Rose - 19.9

 

That's pretty damn good company to keep.

[Magnetic Curses]

Top 5 players in WP82 (win shares per 82 games) as of Thursday:

 

1. LeBron James - 24.9

2. Deron Williams - 24.1

3. Kobe Bryant - 21.6

4. Kevin Durant - 20.5

5. Derrick Rose - 19.9

 

That's pretty damn good company to keep.

 

so, you're telling me that as far as win shares per 82 games, the point guard list for the year is as follows?

 

1. deron williams

2. derrick rose

3. chris paul

 

but but but chris paul is the best player in the nba and "clearly" the best point guard!!!!

 

maybe lebron james is french for the chris paul?

[Magnetic Curses]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzFRb2PGxVE&feature=player_embedded

[Derwood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzFRb2PGxVE&feature=player_embedded

 

Tyreke should've just stayed down

[UMFan83]

Based on one specifically calculated measure sure. Paul leads the league on WS per minute yet is well behind on WS per game. Strange.

 

Either way pretty much every stat I've seen concludes that CP3 is the best pg in the league and in many cases it's not particularly close.

[Magnetic Curses]

i'd say win shares per 82 games is a pretty important measure. and i don't know how you can see the stats that bukie posted and then, in the next breath, conclude that every stat you've seen concludes that paul is the best pg in the league. that's "clearly" false as you've just seen one that concludes he isn't and not even in the top 2.

[UMFan83]

i'd say win shares per 82 games is a pretty important measure. and i don't know how you can see the stats that bukie posted and then, in the next breath, conclude that every stat you've seen concludes that paul is the best pg in the league. that's "clearly" false as you've just seen one that concludes he isn't and not even in the top 2.

 

Whats more important win shares on a per game basis or win shares on a per minute basis? In any given minute of play, Chris Paul is the best player in the NBA. If I see numerous stats that conclude Chris Paul is the best PG in the league, and then I see one stat that says he's well behind, it's not going to all the sudden change my opinion. Especially when there is a similar stat (WS/48) that I would argue is a better measure of value that has Paul leading the entire league.

[Magnetic Curses]

so it's not really clear. just your interpretation of one stat over another.

[ChiCubsFan]

So they are both great players. Rose is probably asked to do more for his team, which decreases his efficiency and gives Paul the edge in many stats like PER. However, as much as Rose has improved his defense, Paul is better right now. They're both great and DWill is right there with them and I think it's safe to say that those 3 are the best in the game right now. And the fact that Rondo is even in the discussion is laughable. He can't single-handedly take over a game like the other 3 can and do on a regular basis.

[illiniguy]

How many points does Deron get for pacing himself to play an entire season plus playoffs while Chris Paul misses over half of his again?

[UMFan83]

so it's not really clear. just your interpretation of one stat over another.

 

Sure combined with all the stats that say that say Paul is the best.

[Magnetic Curses]

so the per 82 game thing doesn't muddy it up for you at all? okay, it's clear i guess.

[UMFan83]

so the per 82 game thing doesn't muddy it up for you at all? okay, it's clear i guess.

 

So that's all your hanging on is the word "clear"? c'mon man this is a dumb argument to continue. There are too many of these types of arguments on NSBB.

[bukie]

Is it so hard to agree that while Paul might be the best player on a per-minute basis, his penchant for injuries limits his aggregate value?

[UMFan83]

Is it so hard to agree that while Paul might be the best player on a per-minute basis, his penchant for injuries limits his aggregate value?

 

Well he was injured quite a bit last year, but played 80 and 78 games the 2 years prior and has played every game this year. Only 35 MPG as they've been involved in several blowouts but still its not like he's injured for long stretches every season.

 

And despite only 35 MPG he still has the most steals in the NBA and 3rd most assists.

[Magnetic Curses]

so the per 82 game thing doesn't muddy it up for you at all? okay, it's clear i guess.

 

So that's all your hanging on is the word "clear"? c'mon man this is a dumb argument to continue. There are too many of these types of arguments on NSBB.

 

i'm saying that it's not so clear that it's not up to interpretation. i think deron williams is the best point guard, and people will always believe that chris paul is the best.

 

i think it's only a matter of time for rose, though. his physical ability is so much more impressive than either of the others.

[illiniguy]

so the per 82 game thing doesn't muddy it up for you at all? okay, it's clear i guess.

 

So that's all your hanging on is the word "clear"? c'mon man this is a dumb argument to continue. There are too many of these types of arguments on NSBB.

 

i'm saying that it's not so clear that it's not up to interpretation. i think deron williams is the best point guard, and people will always believe that chris paul is the best.

 

i think it's only a matter of time for rose, though. his physical ability is so much more impressive than either of the others.

I agree, but wonder how long Rose will be able to compete at that level. His game doesn't figure to age as well as DWills does. I would also argue the same for Paul although to a lesser extent.

Edited November 29, 2010 by illiniguy