Not good for Rocket Roger

[hardcorecubfan]

http://www.connectamarillo.com/news/story.aspx?id=499213

 

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A federal grand jury on Thursday indicted seven-time Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens for allegedly lying to Congress about using steroids.

 

Clemens faces charges of obstruction of Congress, making false statements and perjury.

 

The former Major League baseball pitcher and his former trainer, Brian McNamee, testified under oath at a 2008 hearing before a House committee and contradicted each other about whether Clemens had used the banned substances.

 

McNamee has told federal agents, baseball investigator George Mitchell and the committee that he injected Clemens more than a dozen times with steroids and human growth hormone from 1998 to 2001.

 

Clemens has maintained that McNamee was lying.

 

Clemens' attorney, Rusty Hardin, said by telephone from Houston that he had just learned of the indictment and would wait to decide whether to comment.

 

The case was assigned to U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton, the judge who presided over the perjury and obstruction trial of Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby. No date has been set for Clemens' initial court appearance.

 

In a defiant appearance before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee in 2008, Clemens said, "I've been accused of something I'm not guilty of ... I have never taken steroids or HGH."

 

Longtime Clemens friend and pitching star Andy Pettite told congressional investigators that Clemens confided to him that he had used human growth hormone. Clemens said Pettite's assertion wasn't correct.

 

"I believe Andy has misheard" the conversation, Clemens responded. He said he had simply mentioned to Pettite a TV show about three older men who used HGH to get back their quality of life.

 

[erik316wttn]

Yeah, he's boned. Just how boned, though, is up to him. Right now I'd be looking at plea bargain options, because the Feds have something like a 98% all-time conviction rate.

[Derwood]

Clemens is the poster child for the steroid era - arrogant, thick-headed, and unrepentant

[UMFan83]

For his sake, I hope someone knocks some sense into him. If he continues this "I did nothing wrong I will prove that all these allegations are lies" rampage that is equal parts denial and ego, he's gonna be in jail for awhile.

 

Unless for some reason Clemens wasn't lying which is highly highly doubtful, no one believes him, no one is willing to wait for him to be proven not guilty to judge his career, and he's not gonna beat the government. There is no reason why he shouldn't take a plea bargin and just get this over with. I'm willing to bet his status will provide him with pretty leinient plea bargin terms.

[davearm2]

For his sake, I hope someone knocks some sense into him. If he continues this "I did nothing wrong I will prove that all these allegations are lies" rampage that is equal parts denial and ego, he's gonna be in jail for awhile.

 

Unless for some reason Clemens wasn't lying which is highly highly doubtful, no one believes him, no one is willing to wait for him to be proven not guilty to judge his career, and he's not gonna beat the government. There is no reason why he shouldn't take a plea bargin and just get this over with. I'm willing to bet his status will provide him with pretty leinient plea bargin terms.

I'm willing to bet the exact opposite. The government is not going to lay down in such a high-profile case.

[UMFan83]

For his sake, I hope someone knocks some sense into him. If he continues this "I did nothing wrong I will prove that all these allegations are lies" rampage that is equal parts denial and ego, he's gonna be in jail for awhile.

 

Unless for some reason Clemens wasn't lying which is highly highly doubtful, no one believes him, no one is willing to wait for him to be proven not guilty to judge his career, and he's not gonna beat the government. There is no reason why he shouldn't take a plea bargin and just get this over with. I'm willing to bet his status will provide him with pretty leinient plea bargin terms.

I'm willing to bet the exact opposite. The government is not going to lay down in such a high-profile case.

 

Maybe your right. My thought was that they aren't going to lay down in terms of getting a conviction, but I just can't see Clemens getting like 30 years in jail. I don't think the sentence length is as important as getting a guilty plea from Clemens. For a celebrity/athlete, I feel like any jail time sends a stern message to them that lying under oath is not going to go unpunished.

[erik316wttn]

For his sake, I hope someone knocks some sense into him. If he continues this "I did nothing wrong I will prove that all these allegations are lies" rampage that is equal parts denial and ego, he's gonna be in jail for awhile.

 

Unless for some reason Clemens wasn't lying which is highly highly doubtful, no one believes him, no one is willing to wait for him to be proven not guilty to judge his career, and he's not gonna beat the government. There is no reason why he shouldn't take a plea bargin and just get this over with. I'm willing to bet his status will provide him with pretty leinient plea bargin terms.

I'm willing to bet the exact opposite. The government is not going to lay down in such a high-profile case.

 

Maybe your right. My thought was that they aren't going to lay down in terms of getting a conviction, but I just can't see Clemens getting like 30 years in jail. I don't think the sentence length is as important as getting a guilty plea from Clemens. For a celebrity/athlete, I feel like any jail time sends a stern message to them that lying under oath is not going to go unpunished.

 

ESPN said he could face anywhere from 6-21 months total. So he's not going to rot away in prison somewhere.

[UMFan83]

I believe I read that maximum sentence is 5 years in jail. So if the prosecutors were looking to send a message that's more or less where they would go. I exaggerated on the 30 year number. If the prosecutors are more concerned with just getting a conviction, I think its much more likely to see Clemens accept a plea bargin and settle for 6-12 months of jail plus a big fine. I have a hard time seeing a scenario where Clemens pleads not guilty, especially if that 98% conviction rate posted above is accurate. That tells me that the prosecution has significant evidence that will get Clemens convicted.

[erik316wttn]

I believe I read that maximum sentence is 5 years in jail. So if the prosecutors were looking to send a message that's more or less where they would go. I exaggerated on the 30 year number. If the prosecutors are more concerned with just getting a conviction, I think its much more likely to see Clemens accept a plea bargin and settle for 6-12 months of jail plus a big fine. I have a hard time seeing a scenario where Clemens pleads not guilty, especially if that 98% conviction rate posted above is accurate. That tells me that the prosecution has significant evidence that will get Clemens convicted.

 

I don't know if it's exactly 98%, but I know for sure it's in the high 90's. Pretty much, the Feds don't indict unless they know they can win.

[hardcorecubfan]

Ok, if he confesses to using , but only for two years, does he still qualify for the HOF? If he looks at the A-Rod model of legal defense, it has seemed to work for him.

[imb]

I believe I read that maximum sentence is 5 years in jail. So if the prosecutors were looking to send a message that's more or less where they would go. I exaggerated on the 30 year number. If the prosecutors are more concerned with just getting a conviction, I think its much more likely to see Clemens accept a plea bargin and settle for 6-12 months of jail plus a big fine. I have a hard time seeing a scenario where Clemens pleads not guilty, especially if that 98% conviction rate posted above is accurate. That tells me that the prosecution has significant evidence that will get Clemens convicted.

 

I don't know if it's exactly 98%, but I know for sure it's in the high 90's. Pretty much, the Feds don't indict unless they know they can win.

 

i believe it's 110%

[Soul]

Ok, if he confesses to using , but only for two years, does he still qualify for the HOF? If he looks at the A-Rod model of legal defense, it has seemed to work for him.

 

A-Rod was able to go out on a baseball field every day after apologizing and earn the cheers & coverage of the baseball world. Roger can't. If Roger admits usage, it becomes a final comment on his career, with no opportunity for him to control what that comment will be by playing more baseball.

 

There's a huge difference.

[JimSorgi]

The HOF's really going to suck if it keeps people like ARod and Clemens out.

[Soul]

Bonds too.

 

There's that group of players -- even if they used, I still feel like they are HOF worthy. I don't think there's been a consensus yet on what will happen with these guys.

 

ARod's definitely another. OK, he used some roids. Yes, it does upset me a little. That guy is a hall of famer.

[davell]

AROD, Bonds, and Clemens were HOF'ers with or without the roids, if you ask me. At least depending on when Clemens assumedly started taking them. If he was taking them midway through his Red Sox time, then maybe he wouldn't have accumulated enough longevity to truly make it in.

 

As far as some of the others go, I don't think of Palmeiro, McGwire, or Sosa as HOF caliber guys without the advantage they received most likely.

[Wilson A2000]

There's that group of players -- even if they used, I still feel like they are HOF worthy.

 

We will never know what kind of career Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, and Arod would have had. Putting the HOF voters in the position of trying to determine what they could have done is the punishment for the crime. They will never get it.

[erik316wttn]

AROD, Bonds, and Clemens were HOF'ers with or without the roids, if you ask me. At least depending on when Clemens assumedly started taking them. If he was taking them midway through his Red Sox time, then maybe he wouldn't have accumulated enough longevity to truly make it in.

 

As far as some of the others go, I don't think of Palmeiro, McGwire, or Sosa as HOF caliber guys without the advantage they received most likely.

 

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like about 1996 in Boston would have been the time to take them. His 1995 wasn't impressive at all, he was on the wrong side of 30, and he had a decent final year in Boston, then went to Toronto for 2 years and became Roger Clemens again.

 

Again, absolutely nothing to back this up, but looking at his career stats maybe that was the time.

[EhDubya]

I say, let the steroids guys into the HOF but make them feel pretty miserable about it. Don't let them talk at their induction, put an asterisk on their cap instead of team logo, and make them pay an annual membership fee for their spot. That'll show em.

[erik316wttn]

I say, let the steroids guys into the HOF but make them feel pretty miserable about it. Don't let them talk at their induction, put an asterisk on their cap instead of team logo, and make them pay an annual membership fee for their spot. That'll show em.

 

If you put them in and there was proof they juiced, it should be mentioned on their HOF plaque.

[Wilson A2000]

I say, let the steroids guys into the HOF but make them feel pretty miserable about it. Don't let them talk at their induction, put an asterisk on their cap instead of team logo, and make them pay an annual membership fee for their spot. That'll show em.

 

If you put them in and there was proof they juiced, it should be mentioned on their HOF plaque.

 

I bet the juicers would not let themselves be put in the HOF if anything related to their steroid activity was mentioned on their plaque or during the ceremony.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Wilson A2000

[JimSorgi]

I say, let the steroids guys into the HOF but make them feel pretty miserable about it. Don't let them talk at their induction, put an asterisk on their cap instead of team logo, and make them pay an annual membership fee for their spot. That'll show em.

 

If you put them in and there was proof they juiced, it should be mentioned on their HOF plaque.

 

"Sammy Sosa hit like, a [expletive] ton of HRs. Everybody loved it, especially in 98. Turns out he used steroids, so now a bunch of self-righteous dicks like to pretend that they hated him all along, but they really loved it. In conclusion, Sammy was really [expletive] awesome, but old people will hate him because he used steroids instead of doing something more honorable like stabbing black people(see Cobb, Ty)."

 

Do you think they'd accept something like that?

[davell]

Which of these guys would hurt baseball more if we found out they used steroids? Derek Jeter, Ken Griffey Jr, Greg Maddux, or Cal Ripken Jr?

[imb]

I think it would probably help baseball if Ripken used, really. Or Maddux or Griffey, too. It would make people realize that cheating has existed forever in this game, and maybe we could all get past it, finally.

[Wilson A2000]

I think it would probably help baseball if Ripken used, really. Or Maddux or Griffey, too. It would make people realize that cheating has existed forever in this game, and maybe we could all get past it, finally.

 

No it wouldn't. It would make people lose faith in the game of baseball itself.

[erik316wttn]

I say, let the steroids guys into the HOF but make them feel pretty miserable about it. Don't let them talk at their induction, put an asterisk on their cap instead of team logo, and make them pay an annual membership fee for their spot. That'll show em.

 

If you put them in and there was proof they juiced, it should be mentioned on their HOF plaque.

 

"Sammy Sosa hit like, a [expletive] ton of HRs. Everybody loved it, especially in 98. Turns out he used steroids, so now a bunch of self-righteous dicks like to pretend that they hated him all along, but they really loved it. In conclusion, Sammy was really [expletive] awesome, but old people will hate him because he used steroids instead of doing something more honorable like stabbing black people(see Cobb, Ty)."

 

Do you think they'd accept something like that?

 

Not like that, obviously, but an asterisk with something like "player used performance-enhancing drugs during playing career" underneath it.