Minor League Discussion & Boxes 6-8-10

[Outshined_One]

Box Scores

 

Iowa won 5-1 Box Score

 

CF/LF J. Adduci 1/3, BB, RBI

SS M. Camp 0/4, CS (3), PO (1B)

3B C. Tracy 4/4, 3 R, 2 RBI, 2 HR (5)

1B M. Hoffpauir 1/4, RBI, 2B (12), K

RF B. Snyder 0/4

LF B. LaHair 1/4, R, 2 K

2B B. Scales 1/3, R, 2B (14), K

C C. Robinson 1/3, RBI

PH M. Smith 0/1

SP T. Diamond 5 scoreless, 2 H, 8/0 K/BB, 2-5 GO-FO

RP J. Gaub 1 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 2/0 K/BB, 2 WP

RP J. Berg 1 perfect, 1/0 K/BB, 2-0 GO-FO

RP J. Samardzija 1 perfect, 1/0 K/BB, 1-1 GO-FO

RP B. Schlitter 1 scoreless, 2 H, 1/0 K/BB, 1-0 GO-FO

 

Tennessee won 3-0 Box Score

 

CF T. Campana 0/3, BB, R, K

SS N. Samson 1/4, K

LF T. Wright 1/4, R, 2 RBI, HR (9)

C R. Chirinos 1/3, BB, R

RF B. Guyer 1/4, K

3B J. Vitters 1/3, RBI

PH M. Spencer 0/1, K

2B T. Thomas 2/3, K

SS M. Gonzalez 0/1, E (7, throw)

SP C. Carpenter 6.1 scoreless, 3 H, 6/1 K/BB, 9-3 GO-FO

RP R. Buchter 1.2 perfect, 3/0 K/BB, 0-2 GO-FO

RP D. Cales 1 scoreless, 1 H, 0/1 K/BB, 2-1 GO-FO

 

Daytona won 7-0 Box Score

 

CF B. Jackson 2/5, 2 R, 2B (10), K

3B DJ LeMahieu 1/5, 2 R, RBI, K

2B R. Flaherty 1/4, BB, RBI, 2B (14)

1B R. Ridling 1/3, BB, R, RBI, 2B (11), K

RF K. Burke 2/5, 2 RBI, 2B (15), 3 K

SS J. Lake 0/2, 2 BB, R, 2 K

SP C. Archer 6 scoreless, 2 H, 8/2 K/BB, 5-3 GO-FO

RP D. Patton 2 scoreless, 2 H, 2/1 K/BB, 3-1 GO-FO

RP A. Shafer 1 scoreless, 1 H, 1/0 K/BB, 0-2 GO-FO

 

Peoria won 7-4 Box Score

 

SS HJ Lee 2/3, 2 BB, R, 2B (11), CS (4), 2 PO (1B, 3B)

2B L. Watkins 2/3, R, 2 RBI, 2B (6)

3B M. Cerda 0/2, BB, R, RBI

LF DJ Fitzgerald 1/3, BB, R, 2 RBI, 2B (5), K

1B J. Bour 1/4, R, 2 RBI, HR (3)

RF JH Ha 2/4, 2B (1), 2 K

DH N. Perez 0/4, K

C J. Mota 0/3, R, K, HBP

SP J. Antigua 5 IP, 6 H, 4 ER, 6/1 K/BB, 2 HR, 1-7 GO-FO

RP R. Morla 3 perfect, 4/0 K/BB, 4-1 GO-FO

RP Y. Gonzalez 1 perfect, 2-1 GO-FO

 

DSL Cubs 1 lost Game 1 of their DH 3-1 Box Score

 

DSL Cubs 1 lost Game 2 of their DH 7-6 Box Score

 

DSL Cubs 2 lost 13-0 Box Score

 

OVERALL: 4-3

[MSG T]

The Iowa game should get in. It looks like the storms have moved east with not much coming up behind them. Wish I could get down there for it.

 

I am going the whole first week of July. On leave, 3 of the 4 kids at camps and my wife will be in Phoenix. Just me and my 14 year old son. Already have tickets to 5 straight games.

[Guest]

Probable Starters

 

Iowa: RHP Thomas Diamond (3-2, 2.43 ERA, 59.1 IP, 24 BB, 57 K)

Tennessee: RHP Chris Carpenter (4-2, 3.98 ERA, 40.2 IP, 18 BB, 27 K)

Daytona: RHP Chris Archer (3-1, 3.47 ERA, 49.1 IP, 21 BB, 55 K)

Peoria: LHP Jeffry Antigua (2-4, 4.70 ERA, 51.2 IP, 23 BB, 43 K)

[MSG T]

Probable Starters

 

Iowa: RHP Thomas Diamond (3-2, 2.43 ERA, 59.1 IP, 24 BB, 57 K)

Tennessee: RHP Chris Carpenter (4-2, 3.98 ERA, 40.2 IP, 18 BB, 27 K)

Daytona: RHP Chris Archer (3-1, 3.47 ERA, 49.1 IP, 21 BB, 55 K)

Peoria: LHP Jeffry Antigua (2-4, 4.70 ERA, 51.2 IP, 23 BB, 43 K)

 

Now I really want to get down there. I haven't seen Diamond pitch yet.

[sneakypower]

stick a fork in 'em: prospects i have zero hope left for

 

vitters

burke

lake

[Guest]

Was it really just last spring that Castro and Lake were considered pretty much equals?

[davell]

stick a fork in 'em: prospects i have zero hope left for

 

vitters

burke

lake

 

 

Really? While I've never been a huge Vitters fan to begin with, one month of struggling in AA doesn't make him a no-hope guy to me, by any stretch.

 

Burke has certainly struggled and it's very disappointing, but I'm definitely going to give him the whole year before I make a judgment on him as well.

 

Lake? Yeah, he's kind of hopeless.

[Outshined_One]

Lake? Yeah, he's kind of hopeless.

 

He's a 20 year old in the Florida State League with incredible tools. I wouldn't lose all hope for him yet, although his struggles are disappointing.

[davell]

Lake? Yeah, he's kind of hopeless.

 

He's a 20 year old in the Florida State League with incredible tools. I wouldn't lose all hope for him yet, although his struggles are disappointing.

 

 

You're right, I kind of wish we had kept him at Peoria for another season honestly.

[CubsWin]

stick a fork in 'em: prospects i have zero hope left for

 

vitters

burke

lake

 

 

Really? While I've never been a huge Vitters fan to begin with, one month of struggling in AA doesn't make him a no-hope guy to me, by any stretch.

 

Burke has certainly struggled and it's very disappointing, but I'm definitely going to give him the whole year before I make a judgment on him as well.

 

Lake? Yeah, he's kind of hopeless.

I agree that it is disappointing to see Vitters struggle like this, but he's done poorly before and then learned how to adjust to the higher level. After being aggressively promoted to Daytona last season, he struggled there. In 189 ABs he had a line of .238/.260/.344. But he started off this season going .291/.350/.445 in 110 ABs. After being aggressively promoted a second time, it is no surprise that he's struggling again at the higher level. In 76 ABs, he's hitting .211/.250/.303. It is possible that he will never figure out AA pitching. But let's give the guy more than just 76 ABs before giving up on him. The Cubs obviously believe in his maturity otherwise they wouldn't be promoting him so aggressively and putting him in positions where he going to struggle. With the special ones, it seems the player has so much confidence in their ability that they can struggle for a while without it affecting their confidence. I say let him learn. He doesn't need to spend the bulk of his season succeeding in order to have confidence in himself.

 

Burke may be a slow learner or just not as good as he looked last season. It took him more than one pass to figure out low-A. maybe, he's going to need more than one go around to figure out high-A. He still possesses his throwing arm, decent speed and some power. He either doesn't have the bat we thought he did or it just takes him more time to adjust to a higher level of competition than most.

 

Junior Lake is kind of the exact opposite of the other two. Absolutely no performance history (outside of exhibiting some pop to his bat) to provide fans with a sense that he can make it. I mean he has absolutely sucked at the plate...up until about 10 games ago. Lake's main problem has been his plate discipline, striking out way too much and not hitting for average. Historians mark the change in each epoch with every time Junior Lake takes a walk. But over his last ten games, Lake has walked 4 times (5 times in his last 11). He's hitting .296 with a .412 OBP since May 25th. Now, it's just ten games, but I don't remember ever seeing a stretch for him where he got on base like that last season. Given his history it's probably not, but the evidence suggests there's a chance this is the beginning of Lake's light turning on around plate discipline.

 

Vitters is still just 20 and he's in AA. Lake turned 20 in March and he's at high-A. For those reasons alone, it's too soon to give up on them. Burke is on a shorter leash. But if he is just a slow learner, I have no problem with someone figuring it out at the major league level at 25. That's not too late or too old to contribute for me.

[Rob]

stick a fork in 'em: prospects i have zero hope left for

 

vitters

burke

lake

 

This is stupid.

[Guest]

It would be great if Oneri Fleita wasn't in charge of promoting Josh Vitters.

[NCCubFan]

stick a fork in 'em: prospects i have zero hope left for

 

vitters

burke

lake

You can't possibly be serious. Concerns? Yes. Completely writing them off? Definitely not.

[davell]

Who had the better line tonight?

 

Carpenter 6.1IP 3H 0R 1W 6K

 

or

 

 

Archer 6IP 2H 0R 2W 8K

 

:D

[Little Slide Rooter]

Who had the better line tonight?

 

Carpenter 6.1IP 3H 0R 1W 6K

 

or

 

 

Archer 6IP 2H 0R 2W 8K

 

:D

 

Dont forget Diamond 5IP 2H 0R 0W 8K

 

Its been a good pitching day, and Lilly seems to be kjeeping it nup through 6.

[sneakypower]

stick a fork in 'em: prospects i have zero hope left for

 

vitters

burke

lake

You can't possibly be serious. Concerns? Yes. Completely writing them off? Definitely not.

Vitters completely doesn't walk whatsoever, and doesn't make enough good contact to even remotely justify that at all. oh, and he can't field. what's replacement level hitting for a bad fielding MLB first baseman, 750-800 OPS? yeah, i'll take the under.

 

look at Burke's last 5 seasons and tell me what doesn't fit. you guys act like there are hordes of productive ballplayers that sucked in the minors for a long time until their tools somehow magically materialized one day, but that doesn't really ever happen.

[CubsWin]

Vitters completely doesn't walk whatsoever, and doesn't make enough good contact to even remotely justify that at all. oh, and he can't field. what's replacement level hitting for a bad fielding MLB first baseman, 750-800 OPS? yeah, i'll take the under.

You're welcome to your opinion, but I don't share it because the dude's 20 and at AA and was making plenty of good contact earlier this season at High-A Daytona in a league he's still underage for. If we were talking about a 24 or 25 year old then I might agree with you.

 

look at Burke's last 5 seasons and tell me what doesn't fit. you guys act like there are hordes of productive ballplayers that sucked in the minors for a long time until their tools somehow magically materialized one day, but that doesn't really ever happen.

I don't think anyone views Burke as a sure thing to make it. But what you claim doesn't ever really happen, he accomplished just last season. His production was pretty bad up until last year, when he seemed to figure some things out and had his "tools somehow magically materialize". It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. And after Burke's '09 results, I think it's reasonable to have had some excitement about him heading into this season. If he keeps struggling like he has, that will obviously change. You're welcome to right off the 22 year old. There is an argument to made for doing that, but I've seen too many lights turn on in a lot of minor leaguers later in the season than this for me to give up on him now. If what you say is accurate, how do you explain Geovany Soto?

[Donzo1679666396]

stick a fork in 'em: prospects i have zero hope left for

 

vitters

burke

lake

You can't possibly be serious. Concerns? Yes. Completely writing them off? Definitely not.

Vitters completely doesn't walk whatsoever, and doesn't make enough good contact to even remotely justify that at all. oh, and he can't field. what's replacement level hitting for a bad fielding MLB first baseman, 750-800 OPS? yeah, i'll take the under.

 

look at Burke's last 5 seasons and tell me what doesn't fit. you guys act like there are hordes of productive ballplayers that sucked in the minors for a long time until their tools somehow magically materialized one day, but that doesn't really ever happen.

 

When did you write off Colvin?

 

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts Vitters has a better season at Tennessee than Colvin did in 2008. Not to mention that Vitters is 2 years younger than Colvin was in 08.

[sneakypower]

Colvin strikes out more often than even Dunn, Pena and Branyan but doesn't walk so it's probably gonna get pretty ugly when his HR/FB (2nd highest in the league) and unsustainable BABIP come crashing to earth

 

i'm not rooting against the guys i listed, just saying i don't have hope for them anymore

[Donzo1679666396]

Colvin doesn't walk?... Early in his minor league career, you would be correct. This year with the Chicago Cubs, you are not correct.

 

To lump Vitters with Burke & Lake is miscast... How can you discount Vitters age factor, his past successes & ability to improve at each level?

[sneakypower]

has there ever been a single player who has succeeded in the majors despite a complete inability to control the strike zone in the early levels of the minors for such a prolonged period of time?

 

i can't think of a single flattering player comparison to make for Vitters, statistically. there's no precedent.

Edited June 11, 2010 by sneakypower

[Guest]

To be fair, his aggressive promotions skew his raw performance a bit, especially considering his age. If he had been left to pummel Peoria in last year and Daytona this year(not a given, I know) then things might look a little different.

 

On the other hand, the comparisons to Colvin are pretty much bunk. Colvin is Todd Hollandsworth at best, and an unusual success(well, for 100 PA's at least) story that shouldn't be a rallying point for people to pump up other prospects.

 

In all, Vitters just needs to start hitting. For as much as people are certain of Colvin's success based on 100 MLB PA's, Vitters has about that much time at AA and has a .558 OPS. The light needs to click on like it did in Peoria, and appeared to start doing in Daytona.

[jersey cubs fan]

If we were talking about a 24 or 25 year old then I might agree with you.

 

 

If were were talking about a 24 or 25 year old then you might agree with him?

 

How forgiving can you be?