Bulls Offseason Thread

[Soul]

Wouldnt this same reasoning stop people from going to play for the Yankees? Or the Cowboys or Packers or insert NFL powerhouse here?

 

I think the difference is what SSR was getting at. Who do you think of when you think of the Yankees or Cowboys? Any number of stars that they've had could come to mind. Same with the Lakers and Celtics. For the Bulls, it's Jordan, the end. If that sort of thing matters to a player, I can certainly see how there'd be more of a microscope in Chicago relative to somewhere else.

 

But again, is that really going to be the deciding factor for a player like Lebron? I really doubt it. We're talking about a man who carries his star with him, not someone who is looking to a place to define him.

 

I'm sure SSR is right, Lebron won't wind up here. It won't be because of the Jordan legacy, though.

[Guest]

Wouldnt this same reasoning stop people from going to play for the Yankees? Or the Cowboys or Packers or insert NFL powerhouse here?

 

I think the difference is what SSR was getting at. Who do you think of when you think of the Yankees or Cowboys? Any number of stars that they've had could come to mind. Same with the Lakers and Celtics. For the Bulls, it's Jordan, the end. If that sort of thing matters to a player, I can certainly see how there'd be more of a microscope in Chicago relative to somewhere else.

 

But again, is that really going to be the deciding factor for a player like Lebron? I really doubt it. We're talking about a man who carries his star with him, not someone who is looking to a place to define him.

 

I'm sure SSR is right, Lebron won't wind up here. It won't be because of the Jordan legacy, though.

 

I don't know, I'm not going to pretend to know what factors LeBron weighs heavily, aside from the fact that the money probably won't be much of a consideration. My guess is that the team around him is the most important factor for him, or at least it would be for me if I were in his situation.

[UMFan83]

I think its slightly different with Chicago than LA or Boston.

 

We are talking about Michael Jordan, universally proclaimed GOAT, just about every player in the NBA today grew up idolizing him. And we're talking about LeBron James, easily the best player in the NBA today and many people talk of him as someone who could potentially usurp MJ as GOAT. We're not talking about Kevin Garnett, as good as he is, coming to play in Boston under the shadow of Larry Bird or Bill Russell, both top 10 all time players.

 

Someone in the stratosphere like LeBron is already thinking about their legacy. He already knows he will go down as an all time great, that's not a big issue for them. He wants to be up in that rare air, if not better than Michael, his right hand man on the NBA pyramid (sorry for stealing Bill Simmons terminology). If he comes to Chicago, the only way he will be judged, not only by Bulls fans but by all basketball fans is how he does compaired to MJ. And it would be hard to live up to Jordan's standards in Chicago. If he doesn't win 6+ championships in Chicago, he will never be considered greater than Jordan as fair or unfair as it is. If we doesn't win at least 3 he won't be anywhere near the discussion. He won't get a statue outside the UC for less than that.

 

Meanwhile, if he stays in Cleveland, he can bask in the glory of being the hometown hero. He will be forever immortalized by Cleveland fans regardless of how many titles he brings in. He still stands a chance of being compared to MJ even if he doesn't win 6 titles. Maybe LeBron, being the ego driven superstar he is, won't shy away from a challenge like Chicago. But my guess about great NBA players is, deep down they are insecure about their place in history. Everyone needs a source of motivation to get great and stay great. After money is no longer a source, after status among active players is no longer a source, and after winning a championship is no longer a source, place in history remains.

 

Just one man's opinion.

[da bears]

so essentially what people in this thread are saying is that the bulls are the only team with this problem because Jordan is the only all time great the bulls have ever had? interesting.

[Guest]

I think its slightly different with Chicago than LA or Boston.

 

We are talking about Michael Jordan, universally proclaimed GOAT, just about every player in the NBA today grew up idolizing him. And we're talking about LeBron James, easily the best player in the NBA today and many people talk of him as someone who could potentially usurp MJ as GOAT. We're not talking about Kevin Garnett, as good as he is, coming to play in Boston under the shadow of Larry Bird or Bill Russell, both top 10 all time players.

 

Someone in the stratosphere like LeBron is already thinking about their legacy. He already knows he will go down as an all time great, that's not a big issue for them. He wants to be up in that rare air, if not better than Michael, his right hand man on the NBA pyramid (sorry for stealing Bill Simmons terminology). If he comes to Chicago, the only way he will be judged, not only by Bulls fans but by all basketball fans is how he does compaired to MJ. And it would be hard to live up to Jordan's standards in Chicago. If he doesn't win 6+ championships in Chicago, he will never be considered greater than Jordan as fair or unfair as it is. If we doesn't win at least 3 he won't be anywhere near the discussion. He won't get a statue outside the UC for less than that.

 

Meanwhile, if he stays in Cleveland, he can bask in the glory of being the hometown hero. He will be forever immortalized by Cleveland fans regardless of how many titles he brings in. He still stands a chance of being compared to MJ even if he doesn't win 6 titles. Maybe LeBron, being the ego driven superstar he is, won't shy away from a challenge like Chicago. But my guess about great NBA players is, deep down they are insecure about their place in history. Everyone needs a source of motivation to get great and stay great. After money is no longer a source, after status among active players is no longer a source, and after winning a championship is no longer a source, place in history remains.

 

Just one man's opinion.

I think you did a pretty good job of explaining my point, then coming to a different conclusion. LeBron's only goal for his "legacy" is to be regarded as better than Mike for GOAT. It doesn't matter if he's in cleveland, NY, Chicago or anywhere else. The shadow Mike is casting isn't the greatest bull of all time. The shadow Mike is casting for LeBron is the greatest NBA player of all time.

 

For LeBron to get out of that shadow, he needs titles. Lots of them. His only real consideration as far as Mike's shadow needs to be where he feels he's got the best shot to win multiple titles.

[RedFlash]

UMFAN;

 

I agree for the most part, but what separates MJ (and Kobe for that matter) is that they have that mercenary mentality of not only beat their opponents, but basically go for the throat every chance they get. Both have that legendary win at all costs philosophy that I don't see in LBJ just yet. LBJ might be the most underachieving player in the NBA despite his stats, cause he doesn't always play the game at 100%, like Jordan or Kobe. I'm sure LBJ wants to be considered the best of all time, but to do that he has to prove it on the court, but not so much during the regular season, but the playoffs. You think MJ would have allowed his team to be swept in the Finals, like LBJ did a few years back? I'm still waiting for "the beast" to be releashed from LBJ before I annoit him the GOAT. I mean my god, he has the best of Magic, MJ and Jason Kidd all role into one, and yet he has underachived in his career, if you can believe it.

 

Teams were afraid to play the Bulls, because they didn't think they could stop MJ, the same cannot be said about LBJ and Cleveland. When LBJ decides that no team can beat him in the playoffs, that's when we will see the next evolution of LBJ from just a great player to legend.

[Sammy Sofa]

I think its slightly different with Chicago than LA or Boston.

 

We are talking about Michael Jordan, universally proclaimed GOAT, just about every player in the NBA today grew up idolizing him. And we're talking about LeBron James, easily the best player in the NBA today and many people talk of him as someone who could potentially usurp MJ as GOAT. We're not talking about Kevin Garnett, as good as he is, coming to play in Boston under the shadow of Larry Bird or Bill Russell, both top 10 all time players.

 

Someone in the stratosphere like LeBron is already thinking about their legacy. He already knows he will go down as an all time great, that's not a big issue for them. He wants to be up in that rare air, if not better than Michael, his right hand man on the NBA pyramid (sorry for stealing Bill Simmons terminology). If he comes to Chicago, the only way he will be judged, not only by Bulls fans but by all basketball fans is how he does compaired to MJ. And it would be hard to live up to Jordan's standards in Chicago. If he doesn't win 6+ championships in Chicago, he will never be considered greater than Jordan as fair or unfair as it is. If we doesn't win at least 3 he won't be anywhere near the discussion. He won't get a statue outside the UC for less than that.

 

Meanwhile, if he stays in Cleveland, he can bask in the glory of being the hometown hero. He will be forever immortalized by Cleveland fans regardless of how many titles he brings in. He still stands a chance of being compared to MJ even if he doesn't win 6 titles. Maybe LeBron, being the ego driven superstar he is, won't shy away from a challenge like Chicago. But my guess about great NBA players is, deep down they are insecure about their place in history. Everyone needs a source of motivation to get great and stay great. After money is no longer a source, after status among active players is no longer a source, and after winning a championship is no longer a source, place in history remains.

 

Just one man's opinion.

 

I totally disagree. If he comes to the Bulls and they start winning championships, even if it's not 3 in a row or 6 total he's still going to be "basking in the glory." I'm baffled by this continued implications that Chicago fans would be anything less than going nuts over him if he doesn't live up to Jordan or surpass him. If his "worry" is being judged the GoAT, then he's going to be stacked up against Michael no matter where he goes, so it's irrelevant whether that's occurring in Chicago or elsewhere. He can't somehow escape that or bypass it by playing somewhere else. His place in history is going to be compared to Jordan wherever he is. He doesn't escape that by not coming to Chicago. He's not going to get a "lesser" reaction from Bulls fans than other fanbases just because he's not Jordan because, for one, basketball is very generational and it's been over 12 years since Jordan had anything to do with the Bulls, and two, the Bulls have been garbage for the better part of a decade after he left. It would be one thing if Jordan was still any kind of presence with the Bulls or that they had stayed competitive after he left, but neither of those things happened. That's tremendous separation for Bulls fans that have grown up over the last decade, and even for Bulls fans that remember Jordan. The Bulls have been one of the worst teams in basketball for too many years after he left and he's basically completely separated himself from the team. LeBron would have zero problem coming in here and taking over and making it his team and his city at this point.

[Soul]

He's going to have plenty of glory if he wins titles in Chicago.

 

And I agree with Tim -- he's not escaping Jordan's shadow by being in Cleveland if we're talking about being called the GoAT. There is no escaping that shadow.

 

Plus, Chicago has more capacity to launch a legacy player into the stratosphere of history, because frankly it is a much more important market to play in than Cleveland.

[Guest]

He's going to have plenty of glory if he wins titles in Chicago.

 

And I agree with Tim -- he's not escaping Jordan's shadow by being in Cleveland if we're talking about being called the GoAT. There is no escaping that shadow.

 

Plus, Chicago has more capacity to launch a legacy player into the stratosphere of history, because frankly it is a much more important market to play in than Cleveland.

 

The point wasn't that he escapes Jordan's legacy, it's that his legacy is held in higher regard if he falls short of Jordan in Cleveland/wherever than if he falls short of Jordan in Chicago.

[Sammy Sofa]

He's going to have plenty of glory if he wins titles in Chicago.

 

And I agree with Tim -- he's not escaping Jordan's shadow by being in Cleveland if we're talking about being called the GoAT. There is no escaping that shadow.

 

Plus, Chicago has more capacity to launch a legacy player into the stratosphere of history, because frankly it is a much more important market to play in than Cleveland.

 

The point wasn't that he escapes Jordan's legacy, it's that his legacy is held in higher regard if he falls short of Jordan in Cleveland/wherever than if he falls short of Jordan in Chicago.

 

Yeah, but that's in Cleveland.

[wolf stansson]

I don't know, I'm not going to pretend to know what factors LeBron weighs heavily, aside from the fact that the money probably won't be much of a consideration. My guess is that the team around him is the most important factor for him, or at least it would be for me if I were in his situation.

LeBron has such supreme (justified) confidence that I don't think the Jordan thing would bother him. The only statement of intent that I trust to be more than just LeBron being diplomatic is when he and Maverick Carter talk about their desire to build a global brand, on par with Jumpman, how he wants to be a billionaire mogul and win championships. In my opinion he could accomplish all of that in Cleveland if they prove they can build a championship supporting cast around him every season. It would be easier for him to do that from a business standpoint in a Knicks jersey. From a basketball standpoint, in a Bulls jersey.

[David]

sonny vacarro claimed on a radio show today that if calipari comes to the bulls it'll be because there's a prearranged deal orchestrated thru world wide wes for lebron to come with him

 

http://www.box.net/shared/ggira04niy

[Keener98]

sonny vacarro claimed on a radio show today that if calipari comes to the bulls it'll be because there's a prearranged deal orchestrated thru world wide wes for lebron to come with him

 

http://www.box.net/shared/ggira04niy

 

Thats pretty much what Ive anticipated. I figured the only way Calipari takes the job is if hes positive Lebron is coming to Chicago.

[David]

if that is really the case, i don't think there is one person who would complain about a calipari hire

 

among bulls fans, anyway.

[Keener98]

if that is really the case, i don't think there is one person who would complain about a calipari hire

 

among bulls fans, anyway.

 

Nope Lebron is the only reason why I want Calipari.

[SpongeWorthy]

If we hire Calipari if/when Lebron is eliminated from the playoffs I'm going to get irrationally excited.

[David]

if that is really the case, i don't think there is one person who would complain about a calipari hire

 

among bulls fans, anyway.

 

Nope Lebron is the only reason why I want Calipari.

 

Me too... but because of that tie I want him WAY more than I want anyone else.

[David]

If we hire Calipari if/when Lebron is eliminated from the playoffs I'm going to get irrationally excited.

 

Pretty much.

 

 

If we get him, mark my words, I will go on a 5 day drinking bender wearing an authentic LBJ bulls jersey and nothing else

 

 

I'll wait till they're sold (which I'm sure will be within like a day)

[David]

I just listened to this podcast again and it has me way too excited... it's like bball porn

 

 

I could listen to it over and over and convince myself that it's a sure thing that LBJ is coming here with Cal.

[RedFlash]

I just listened to this podcast again and it has me way too excited... it's like bball porn

 

 

I could listen to it over and over and convince myself that it's a sure thing that LBJ is coming here with Cal.

 

I just listen to the podcast for the first time, and while I want to get excited, I really do, I am holding that excitement until I see it happen. But I've said on a couple of Bulls basketball sites, that my theory is the Bulls and Calipari essentially have a handshake agreement on a deal, both sides are waiting till when Cleveland gets eliminated (and Orlando continues to play the playoffs like they have against Atl, then Cleveland won't be beating Orlando) before any confirmation happens. I think this podcast is definately scaring everybody in Cleveland and to a lesser degree New York because of JC connections to be WWW and Lebron.

 

But right now, all this story is much ado about nothing until the playoffs is over. But it is sure fun to talk about.

[imb]

I just listened to this podcast again and it has me way too excited... it's like bball porn

 

 

I could listen to it over and over and convince myself that it's a sure thing that LBJ is coming here with Cal.

 

I just listen to the podcast for the first time, and while I want to get excited, I really do, I am holding that excitement until I see it happen. But I've said on a couple of Bulls basketball sites, that my theory is the Bulls and Calipari essentially have a handshake agreement on a deal, both sides are waiting till when Cleveland gets eliminated (and Orlando continues to play the playoffs like they have against Atl, then Cleveland won't be beating Orlando) before any confirmation happens. I think this podcast is definately scaring everybody in Cleveland and to a lesser degree New York because of JC connections to be WWW and Lebron.

 

But right now, all this story is much ado about nothing until the playoffs is over. But it is sure fun to talk about.

 

so you basically just reverse-summarized the last couple of posts.

 

way to take the information and make it more verbose and less understandable.

[David]

hahahahaha wow

[RedFlash]

so you basically just reverse-summarized the last couple of posts.

 

way to take the information and make it more verbose and less understandable.

 

So for using so many words, you said nothing.

 

Get to the point, unless you don't have one.

[Sammy Sofa]

You suck.

[RedFlash]

hahahahaha wow

 

I know, imb didn't make sense to me, either.