Re: Bears Offseason Thread

[jersey cubs fan]

My wife has three articles of clothing with an athletes name of them. A Kerry Wood t-shirt, a Greg Olsen jersey, and a Walter Payton jersey. Gone, gone, dead.

 

I don't get all the uproar on the radio about "dishonesty" with some statements by Bears people, ie. not trading Olsen, not going hog wild in free agency. Why would people expect absolute honesty during negotiating periods?

 

did we trade olsen or are you just assuming?

 

I'm just assuming, it seems inevitable to me.

[jersey cubs fan]

Shouldn't whether Chester Taylor is particularly good be of just as much interest as how much mileage he has on his legs?

 

Yeah, he's a nice complementary back, but nothing special.

[David]

Shouldn't whether Chester Taylor is particularly good be of just as much interest as how much mileage he has on his legs?

 

 

I mean, if we're not talking age and just his overall body of work, it isn't unimpressive.

[Magnetic Curses]

 

There's no framing. He's old, a backup RB, and that's a big chunk of change. He has less mileage than the LDT of the world, but he's not been untouched, he's played a lot.

 

he's not old. 30 isn't old if you don't have much mileage on you. if he was 35, he'd be pushing it, but there isn't much a 25 year old can do that a 30 year old can't if everything else is equal, which it pretty much is.

 

We're talking about NFL football players here, not accountants. 31, which he turns in September, is old in the NFL, very old for RB. You don't only measure RB age with carries, there's also all the offseason work, training camp, practice, etc. He's old. He doesn't have "essentially" 3.5 years of work under his belt. He's almost 31, he's played a good amount of time. He's not fresh.

 

work is good, being hit is bad. like i said, there's virtually no difference between a 25 year old and a 30 year old except the amount of punishment you've taken.

 

if we're talking about accountants then 50 isn't old, but we aren't.

 

and i'll remember the whole "you don't only measure running backs with carries" line next time you bring up the amount of carries a running back has on him, bank on it.

[Sammy Sofa]

My wife has three articles of clothing with an athletes name of them. A Kerry Wood t-shirt, a Greg Olsen jersey, and a Walter Payton jersey. Gone, gone, dead.

 

I don't get all the uproar on the radio about "dishonesty" with some statements by Bears people, ie. not trading Olsen, not going hog wild in free agency. Why would people expect absolute honesty during negotiating periods?

 

did we trade olsen or are you just assuming?

 

I'm just assuming, it seems inevitable to me.

 

I'm just assuming and hoping.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

There's no framing. He's old, a backup RB, and that's a big chunk of change. He has less mileage than the LDT of the world, but he's not been untouched, he's played a lot.

 

he's not old. 30 isn't old if you don't have much mileage on you. if he was 35, he'd be pushing it, but there isn't much a 25 year old can do that a 30 year old can't if everything else is equal, which it pretty much is.

 

We're talking about NFL football players here, not accountants. 31, which he turns in September, is old in the NFL, very old for RB. You don't only measure RB age with carries, there's also all the offseason work, training camp, practice, etc. He's old. He doesn't have "essentially" 3.5 years of work under his belt. He's almost 31, he's played a good amount of time. He's not fresh.

 

work is good, being hit is bad. like i said, there's virtually no difference between a 25 year old and a 30 year old except the amount of punishment you've taken.

 

if we're talking about accountants then 50 isn't old, but we aren't.

 

and i'll remember the whole "you don't only measure running backs with carries" line next time you bring up the amount of carries a running back has on him, bank on it.

 

What would be the point of bringing it up. I wrote you don't "only" use that. It would be stupid of you to bring back that quote just because I mention somebody's carries.

 

And 25-30 is a huge step in football.

[David]

Yea, but is there any way to really know if that phenomenon (which is more of a football thing than any of the other sports) is more of a result of the pounding that they take than any actual effect the aging has on their bodies?

 

I don't know if we really can answer that. Other athletes are still in their physical primes in their late 20's/early 30's...athletes that don't take that pounding.

[SpongeWorthy]

30 only seems old because the only running backs who even stay in the league long enough to play into their 30s have taken a lot of hits so those are the only ones you see.

 

From a pure biological standpoint, there's no way a well conditioned athlete is far past their athletic prime at 30.

[hawkeyecub]

I'll miss Chester. He was by all accounts a great dude in the locker room, was the perfect compliment to Adrian and helped him out. I really liked him and the Vikings will miss him next year.

 

He'll help the Bears because their top two backs are now a lot better than their top two backs were last year. It will be interesting to see how they mix and match Chester and Forte because they're extremely similar. Chester's biggest strength is in the screen game and basically getting you 3-4 yards consistently but not the big play which seems very similar to Forte.

 

This uncapped year blows for me. The Vikings couldn't go after a UFA right away (not sure they would've anyways though) and it allows teams like the Bears who have money to be able to spend big and structure a deal like they did with Chester so it won't hurt them in the future.

[jersey cubs fan]

30 only seems old because the only running backs who even stay in the league long enough to play into their 30s have taken a lot of hits so those are the only ones you see.

 

From a pure biological standpoint, there's no way a well conditioned athlete is far past their athletic prime at 30.

 

Who said far past?

 

You people are ridiculous. I never said he was done or should be retired. I said it was a lot of money for an old backup RB. He is an old backup RB. I didn't say he's worthless. I said he's an old backup RB, and is an old backup RB. I also said he's a nice complementary back for Forte and that I like that they are going away from the one back situation.

 

But there is a significant difference between 25 and 31 in the world of professional sports. It's not enough to make all 31 year olds obsolete, but there isn't a physically demanding sport where being 31 instead of 25 isn't meaningful.

[hawkeyecub]

Taylor's age shouldn't be much of an issue. Next year he'll be on roughly the same level he was last year. With the salary cap gone and the way the deal is structured, next year is really what matters. With the old system they probably wouldn't have been able to work out a deal like this and his age would have been more of a problem.

 

The only thing that really matters with Chester is how good you think he is and how you think he fits in with Forte.

 

Age is a much more relevant issue with Peppers in my opinion.

[ConstableRabbit]

30 only seems old because the only running backs who even stay in the league long enough to play into their 30s have taken a lot of hits so those are the only ones you see.

 

From a pure biological standpoint, there's no way a well conditioned athlete is far past their athletic prime at 30.

 

Who said far past?

 

You people are ridiculous. I never said he was done or should be retired. I said it was a lot of money for an old backup RB. He is an old backup RB. I didn't say he's worthless. I said he's an old backup RB, and is an old backup RB. I also said he's a nice complementary back for Forte and that I like that they are going away from the one back situation.

 

But there is a significant difference between 25 and 31 in the world of professional sports. It's not enough to make all 31 year olds obsolete, but there isn't a physically demanding sport where being 31 instead of 25 isn't meaningful.

I think the issue is that you're implying that "an old backup RB is an old backup RB."

[SpongeWorthy]

30 only seems old because the only running backs who even stay in the league long enough to play into their 30s have taken a lot of hits so those are the only ones you see.

 

From a pure biological standpoint, there's no way a well conditioned athlete is far past their athletic prime at 30.

 

Who said far past?

 

You people are ridiculous. I never said he was done or should be retired. I said it was a lot of money for an old backup RB. He is an old backup RB. I didn't say he's worthless. I said he's an old backup RB, and is an old backup RB. I also said he's a nice complementary back for Forte and that I like that they are going away from the one back situation.

 

But there is a significant difference between 25 and 31 in the world of professional sports. It's not enough to make all 31 year olds obsolete, but there isn't a physically demanding sport where being 31 instead of 25 isn't meaningful.

 

You said earlier in this thread that you would "never" spend money on running back in free agency. Perhaps we're not the ones being ridiculous with the absolutist statements. In fact, all we're saying is that you can't conflate all 30 year old running backs. It's a perfectly reasonable position.

 

And if Forte doesn't play WAY better than he did last year, Taylor will be a backup in name only.

[jersey cubs fan]

30 only seems old because the only running backs who even stay in the league long enough to play into their 30s have taken a lot of hits so those are the only ones you see.

 

From a pure biological standpoint, there's no way a well conditioned athlete is far past their athletic prime at 30.

 

Who said far past?

 

You people are ridiculous. I never said he was done or should be retired. I said it was a lot of money for an old backup RB. He is an old backup RB. I didn't say he's worthless. I said he's an old backup RB, and is an old backup RB. I also said he's a nice complementary back for Forte and that I like that they are going away from the one back situation.

 

But there is a significant difference between 25 and 31 in the world of professional sports. It's not enough to make all 31 year olds obsolete, but there isn't a physically demanding sport where being 31 instead of 25 isn't meaningful.

I think the issue is that you're implying that "an old backup RB is an old backup RB."

 

Would you prefer that I imply than an old backup RB is a young porn star?

[jersey cubs fan]

You said earlier in this thread that you would "never" spend money on running back in free agency.

 

Well I was referring to spending big money on the position, the Bears aren't. They have two guys who combine for relatively low pay for RB, unless I'm wrong on Forte's salary.

 

No, I wouldn't spend much on free agent RB. I wouldn't have signed Taylor. That's not to say I think it's an awful idea, I just prefer keeping the meat grinder moving on young guys, and getting the most out of guys while they are at their best.

[David]

Taylor's age shouldn't be much of an issue. Next year he'll be on roughly the same level he was last year. With the salary cap gone and the way the deal is structured, next year is really what matters. With the old system they probably wouldn't have been able to work out a deal like this and his age would have been more of a problem.

 

The only thing that really matters with Chester is how good you think he is and how you think he fits in with Forte.

 

Age is a much more relevant issue with Peppers in my opinion.

 

 

I've seen more elite DE's last into their mid 30's than elite RB's....

[brinoch]

30 only seems old because the only running backs who even stay in the league long enough to play into their 30s have taken a lot of hits so those are the only ones you see.

 

From a pure biological standpoint, there's no way a well conditioned athlete is far past their athletic prime at 30.

 

Who said far past?

 

You people are ridiculous. I never said he was done or should be retired. I said it was a lot of money for an old backup RB. He is an old backup RB. I didn't say he's worthless. I said he's an old backup RB, and is an old backup RB. I also said he's a nice complementary back for Forte and that I like that they are going away from the one back situation.

 

But there is a significant difference between 25 and 31 in the world of professional sports. It's not enough to make all 31 year olds obsolete, but there isn't a physically demanding sport where being 31 instead of 25 isn't meaningful.

 

It is a lot of money for Taylor. But the Bears so clearly have too many holes and too few picks that they needed the uncapped year to fill them. I'm not sure that filling RB is how I would prioritize things, but at least there is some recognition that Forte wasn't going to cut it as a single feature back.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You said earlier in this thread that you would "never" spend money on running back in free agency.

 

Well I was referring to spending big money on the position, the Bears aren't. They have two guys who combine for relatively low pay for RB, unless I'm wrong on Forte's salary.

 

No, I wouldn't spend much on free agent RB. I wouldn't have signed Taylor. That's not to say I think it's an awful idea, I just prefer keeping the meat grinder moving on young guys, and getting the most out of guys while they are at their best.

 

I'd generally agree, but it usually needs to be a pick in the first two rounds to have much hope for success. That said, I'm not sure what's supposed to be so great about Chester Taylor.

[ConstableRabbit]

30 only seems old because the only running backs who even stay in the league long enough to play into their 30s have taken a lot of hits so those are the only ones you see.

 

From a pure biological standpoint, there's no way a well conditioned athlete is far past their athletic prime at 30.

 

Who said far past?

 

You people are ridiculous. I never said he was done or should be retired. I said it was a lot of money for an old backup RB. He is an old backup RB. I didn't say he's worthless. I said he's an old backup RB, and is an old backup RB. I also said he's a nice complementary back for Forte and that I like that they are going away from the one back situation.

 

But there is a significant difference between 25 and 31 in the world of professional sports. It's not enough to make all 31 year olds obsolete, but there isn't a physically demanding sport where being 31 instead of 25 isn't meaningful.

I think the issue is that you're implying that "an old backup RB is an old backup RB."

 

Would you prefer that I imply than an old backup RB is a young porn star?

You can imply whatever you want, but saying a blanket statement like "that's a lot for an old backup RB" is a little bit misguided.

 

Not all 31 year old RBs are in the same playing condition.

[jersey cubs fan]

It is a lot of money for Taylor. But the Bears so clearly have too many holes and too few picks that they needed the uncapped year to fill them. I'm not sure that filling RB is how I would prioritize things, but at least there is some recognition that Forte wasn't going to cut it as a single feature back.

 

Yeah, this is absolutely what they had to do, without any high picks. There really wasn't any choice. If they didn't "go hog wild" in free agency, they stood very little chance of being significantly, if any, better next year.

[SpongeWorthy]

Done deal?

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4969071

[hawkeyecub]

Taylor's age shouldn't be much of an issue. Next year he'll be on roughly the same level he was last year. With the salary cap gone and the way the deal is structured, next year is really what matters. With the old system they probably wouldn't have been able to work out a deal like this and his age would have been more of a problem.

 

The only thing that really matters with Chester is how good you think he is and how you think he fits in with Forte.

 

Age is a much more relevant issue with Peppers in my opinion.

 

 

I've seen more elite DE's last into their mid 30's than elite RB's....

 

Of course he'll last longer than the RB. But he'll also be paid more for a longer period of time where his contract could be an issue in the last few years. Chester's deal is basically just a ton of money up front in an uncapped year.

Individually it's also more because the biggest questions on him are effort, work ethic and consistency which would figure to be more pressing as you get to your mid-30's.

[David]

Zaidman is saying that from what he's hearing, they're not trying to move Olsen, and Bernstein is insisting that they are.

[SpongeWorthy]

If we can get two motivated years out of Peppers and Tommie simultaneously I will consider it a victory.

[jersey cubs fan]

Zaidman is saying that from what he's hearing, they're not trying to move Olsen, and Bernstein is insisting that they are.

 

I'm of the belief that they aren't "actively" shopping but by the time the draft comes along, they will be.