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Re: Bears Offseason Thread

Soul

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WrigleyField 22 Knoxville Smokies

WrigleyField 22

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You think Forte isn't that good. I don't think he's that bad. But first, let's start with the going rate for a free agent, veteran RB. I know NFL contracts are different birds from other sports, but Correll Buckhalter got 4 years/10 Mil last offseason. Derrick Ward got 4/$17M. Maurice Morris got 3/$7M. All 3 are average RBs who were brought in to share carries. They all got on average 2.5Mil/year. A guy like Pierre Thomas, who is better than all 3, will get A LOT more.

 

I don't mind adding talent to any position, but I think 2.5Mil or more for a RB to share carries is a misuse of funds with so many other needs. Forte is a good enough receiver that he has to be on the field in most passing downs.

 

Additionally, the Bears called 597 pass plays this year (555 Cutler ATT, 8 Hanie, 35 sacks) to just 333 run plays. *Note: I took out runs by Cutler not knowing if they were QB sneaks or scrambles* So, do you pay a lot of money for a guy to get 150 carries and 20-25 catches? Especially when those catches are coming at the expense of a RB who has been in the top 3 in catches in both his years in the league? I understand the need to take touches away from Forte, I really do. But I don't understand the desire to spend a couple million on a FA or draft one with one of the two top 150 picks the Bears have for a guy to get 175-200 touches.

 

More talent at RB isn't going to make the Bears run game better. More talent at tackle, center, and guard will. Do you think Carolina became a good running team the last couple years because of Williams and Stewart? Sure that helped, but they also drafted, developed, and signed probably the best OL in the league. What about the Jets? Did Thomas Jones make them that good of a running team and it's just coincedence that the Jets became a great run team when they brought in Faneca, D'Brick, and Mangold?

Its not just about the number of carries. The guys I've suggested for the most part would offer the speed and elusiveness that Forte really hasn't shown.

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rawaction Chicago Cubs

rawaction

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You think Forte isn't that good. I don't think he's that bad. But first, let's start with the going rate for a free agent, veteran RB. I know NFL contracts are different birds from other sports, but Correll Buckhalter got 4 years/10 Mil last offseason. Derrick Ward got 4/$17M. Maurice Morris got 3/$7M. All 3 are average RBs who were brought in to share carries. They all got on average 2.5Mil/year. A guy like Pierre Thomas, who is better than all 3, will get A LOT more.

 

I don't mind adding talent to any position, but I think 2.5Mil or more for a RB to share carries is a misuse of funds with so many other needs. Forte is a good enough receiver that he has to be on the field in most passing downs.

 

Additionally, the Bears called 597 pass plays this year (555 Cutler ATT, 8 Hanie, 35 sacks) to just 333 run plays. *Note: I took out runs by Cutler not knowing if they were QB sneaks or scrambles* So, do you pay a lot of money for a guy to get 150 carries and 20-25 catches? Especially when those catches are coming at the expense of a RB who has been in the top 3 in catches in both his years in the league? I understand the need to take touches away from Forte, I really do. But I don't understand the desire to spend a couple million on a FA or draft one with one of the two top 150 picks the Bears have for a guy to get 175-200 touches.

 

More talent at RB isn't going to make the Bears run game better. More talent at tackle, center, and guard will. Do you think Carolina became a good running team the last couple years because of Williams and Stewart? Sure that helped, but they also drafted, developed, and signed probably the best OL in the league. What about the Jets? Did Thomas Jones make them that good of a running team and it's just coincedence that the Jets became a great run team when they brought in Faneca, D'Brick, and Mangold?

Its not just about the number of carries. The guys I've suggested for the most part would offer the speed and elusiveness that Forte really hasn't shown.

 

I don't remember who you suggested. But do you want a RB who can produce or one that looks pretty? You can have both, but how much do you want to pay for that? The guys I listed all got $2.5M per. Anyone better than them would obviously cost more. Elusive players at a similar production level will cost the same. I wouldn't want to pay too much more than that for a backup RB who isn't going to see the field on most passing downs, which for the Bears was 64% of the plays last year. Give Bell more of a role for basically free and see what he can do. Draft a guy like Demarco Murray or Ben Tate in the 5th round to help out. If Forte has another crappy year, you go get somebody in 2011, when hopefully you already have a strong passing attack.

tfarks ACL Cubs

tfarks

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Mike Martz, sadly.

 

I don't mind Martz, and I mind him less if Bates goes to Seattle.

 

Coming out of this with Martz and Fewell, it could be a hell of a lot worse. I'd prefer Bates, but Martz should be a significant improvement over the Shoop/Shea/Turners of the world. If Angelo fixes the O-line with at least 1 premium talent and they pluck some good defenders out of the draft my optimism is gonna jump right back up for this team.

minnesotacubsfan Chicago Cubs

minnesotacubsfan

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god I wish we could win the SB to get 1/2 of those a-holes outta Chicago's spotlight. I guess that why Virginia likes Lovie so much. He's come the closest.

 

of course, I would be more happy if someone bought Virginia out of power.

jersey cubs fan GOAT

jersey cubs fan

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But do you want a RB who can produce or one that looks pretty?

one that produces would be nice, since forte is neither

 

you keep glossing over the fact that forte is a terrible runner. You don't learn rb, you either have it or you don't. Forte may have had it 3 years ago, but he was probably overused in college and his rookie year, and he doesn't have it now. He should be a third down back only. The bears have no money tied into rb, and can easily afford to get one with actual talent.

rawaction Chicago Cubs

rawaction

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But do you want a RB who can produce or one that looks pretty?

one that produces would be nice, since forte is neither

 

you keep glossing over the fact that forte is a terrible runner. You don't learn rb, you either have it or you don't. Forte may have had it 3 years ago, but he was probably overused in college and his rookie year, and he doesn't have it now. He should be a third down back only. The bears have no money tied into rb, and can easily afford to get one with actual talent.

 

LOL. So, just because you say Forte is a terrible runner makes it fact? I've already stated that I think you are wrong and he is not terrible. In fact, you have even said yourself that he is "barely adequate". So is he horrible or adequate? Or does it change depending on your argument as it has every other post?

 

I know this doesn't mean anything as far as Forte goes, but do you think Brandon Jacobs is a terrible runner? He had a worse year than Forte running the ball with what is regarded as a much better O-line.

 

And again, stop using the no money tied into RB excuse. The Cubs have a ton of money tied into the offense. Does that mean they shouldn't spend on more offense? No, because you have to look at the entire team. You argue that the running game is pointless then want to spend money on a RB. If this is a passing league, why not use that money to make the passing game better?

SpongeWorthy Iowa Cubs

SpongeWorthy

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But do you want a RB who can produce or one that looks pretty?

one that produces would be nice, since forte is neither

 

you keep glossing over the fact that forte is a terrible runner. You don't learn rb, you either have it or you don't. Forte may have had it 3 years ago, but he was probably overused in college and his rookie year, and he doesn't have it now. He should be a third down back only. The bears have no money tied into rb, and can easily afford to get one with actual talent.

 

LOL. So, just because you say Forte is a terrible runner makes it fact? I've already stated that I think you are wrong and he is not terrible. In fact, you have even said yourself that he is "barely adequate". So is he horrible or adequate? Or does it change depending on your argument as it has every other post?

 

I know this doesn't mean anything as far as Forte goes, but do you think Brandon Jacobs is a terrible runner? He had a worse year than Forte running the ball with what is regarded as a much better O-line.

 

And again, stop using the no money tied into RB excuse. The Cubs have a ton of money tied into the offense. Does that mean they shouldn't spend on more offense? No, because you have to look at the entire team. You argue that the running game is pointless then want to spend money on a RB. If this is a passing league, why not use that money to make the passing game better?

 

He's got no shake, he's horrible at finishing runs (how often does Forte push a pile forward or get low and fall forward?), and he doesn't break tackles. I think his speed is fine...there are certainly slower, more effective backs than him but his burst isn't going to blow you away either.

 

When everything's blocked perfectly he can be effective but that just doesn't happen much in the NFL.

RedFlash ACL Cubs

RedFlash

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Yes! I want the Bears to get Bates in some capacity. That article mentions the Tennessee OC as a candidate. I don't know much about him, but I do think I want more experience than Bates as OC. Bates as QB coach would be ideal.

 

I wonder if Carroll tried to convince Bates come with him to Seattle, but Bates turned him down. I could live with Bates as the QB coach, and Martz as OC, with Bates becoming the OC in a couple of years.

SpongeWorthy Iowa Cubs

SpongeWorthy

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Martz and Bates do not run very similar systems at all.

 

All the Chow-USC-Tennessee-Denver connections are pretty incestuous. Carroll is definitely a Monte Kiffin disciple. You would not see much difference, schematically, if you brought in Sarkisian, Chow, Kiffin, or Bates. And I think Bates would want to be OC wherever he goes, IMO.

dew1679666265 Iowa Cubs

dew1679666265

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Yes! I want the Bears to get Bates in some capacity. That article mentions the Tennessee OC as a candidate. I don't know much about him, but I do think I want more experience than Bates as OC. Bates as QB coach would be ideal.

 

From everything I've heard, Jim Chaney is very good at working with quarterbacks - that's the main reason Lane brought him to Tennessee. As far as his offensive schemes and playcalling, I'm not certain what from UT this year was Chaney and what was Lane Kiffin. Chaney has the OC title, but it's pretty obvious the offense is Lane Kiffin's. For what it's worth, the Tennessee offense this year very closely mirrored what USC has run under Pete Carroll. There were a few more shotgun formations and bootlegs than I've generally seen from USC in most years, though.

 

That said, Chaney was the OC at Purdue in that great run they had with Painter, Brees, Orton, etc. He's got an excellent collegiate resume, but I can't speak to how he'd do as an NFL offensive coordinator.

Soul MVP

Soul

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Yes! I want the Bears to get Bates in some capacity. That article mentions the Tennessee OC as a candidate. I don't know much about him, but I do think I want more experience than Bates as OC. Bates as QB coach would be ideal.

 

I wonder if Carroll tried to convince Bates come with him to Seattle, but Bates turned him down. I could live with Bates as the QB coach, and Martz as OC, with Bates becoming the OC in a couple of years.

If that story is true, it likely means Carroll isn't all that confident Bates is ready to run an NFL offense.

dew1679666265 Iowa Cubs

dew1679666265

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More Perry Fewell news:

 

Former Buffalo Bills interim head coach Perry Fewell is likely to become the Chicago Bears new defensive coordinator this week, an NFL source told ESPN Insider Adam Schefter.

Fewell is scheduled to meet with Bears officials, including head coach Lovie Smith, on Monday. But a source said Fewell has decided to accept the job.

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