2010 BBWAA HOF Ballot

[Guest]

and if you're flat out incapable of playing defense then you're not allowed in my hall of fame.

 

THIS x 1,000

Somewhere, Jake Fox is weeping.

[NewUserName]

Martinez could've been ok-below average as a fielder if he ever stayed healthy. He flat out couldn't in the field. Defense matters, and if you're flat out incapable of playing defense then you're not allowed in my hall of fame.

 

I could vote for a player who was predominately a DH during his career. He would need to have better overall numbers then Martinez though

[Guest]

I'll cast my vote for big Frank when he's up.

[OleMissCub]

I'll cast my vote for big Frank when he's up.

 

Frank presents a big conundrum for me because I loathe the DH so extensively but I also recognize that Big Hurt was one of the best hitters in the history of the game, so how could I not vote for the guy? I can rationalize voting for a guy who had the majority of his starts as a DH by saying that his uber-stud MVP seasons were achieved as a position player.

[bhogg]

I'm just glad we haven't made it to "you're an idiot because you think Andre Dawson is a HoF'er" level, yet. . . . .then again, we are supposed to be cub fans here :)

 

Dawson -- yes. OleMiss pretty much nailed my feelings on the Hawk. No brainer to me

Lee Smith -- yes. Sorry media people -- you glorified the save, now take your medicine and put Lee Arthur Smith in the Hall.

Alomar --- yes. Dude was awesome. I hate him, but he was awesome.

Blyleven -- for the love of Christ, yes.

Raines -- has a snowball's chance in hell, but I'd certainly put him in

Larkin -- 10 times better player than Ozzie Smith. YES

McGriff -- I put him in. For crying out loud, the guy hit 493 homers. He was a model of consistency and all indications are that he was a "clean" player.

Trammell -- yes!

 

 

I know will clark bashed our collective teeth in in '89, but I always liked him. In fact, in 1988 I began hitting left handed (I was 11) and modeled my swing after Will the Thrill. It worked -- I raked as a lefty. . . . hit .860 as a 12 year old including a game where I hit a slam and drove in 12. .. . .I was a fat will clark clone :) I also K'd 12 batters in 5 innings that game. . .. twas my ESPN moment. Bhogg for HoF!!!!!

[SouthSideRyan]

We have made it to the You're an idiot because you think Lee Smith is HOF level though.

 

Regarding my comment on defense, I meant it more that Martinez couldn't stay healthy while playing defense. Thomas sucked at playing 1B, but he was able to play it without injuring himself.

[Derwood]

Frank Thomas played nearly 1000 games at 1B, while Edgar played less than 600 games in the field (compared to nearly 1500 at DH)

[CubbieBum]

In terms of comparing Frank Thomas and Edgar Martinez its not even close.

 

Let's see Frank has 200+ more home runs, 400+ more RBIs, nearly 300 more runs, a higher OPS, 2 MVP's to Edgar's 0 (both came in year's he played almost exclusively 1B) and finally Frank played 400 more games in the field.

[Serge]

Okay, so let me preface this by saying that I'm not good at judging if guys are Hall of Famers. But what do you guys think of Gary Sheffield with regards to the Hall of Fame? I was talking about this with my roommate yesterday, and I said he should be and my roommate shouldn't be. My roommate said that while his numbers are great that for the steroid era they're not great enough, and that the Balco nonsense has to knock him down a peg. Whereas I look at the 500+ homers and the career .292/.393/.514 line, 140 OPS+, and the fact that he walked more than he struck out and I say he's not an inner circle guy, but he's a Hall of Famer. I figure you guys know more about this stuff than I do so I'm interested in what you think.

[Rob]

Okay, so let me preface this by saying that I'm not good at judging if guys are Hall of Famers. But what do you guys think of Gary Sheffield with regards to the Hall of Fame? I was talking about this with my roommate yesterday, and I said he should be and my roommate shouldn't be. My roommate said that while his numbers are great that for the steroid era they're not great enough, and that the Balco nonsense has to knock him down a peg. Whereas I look at the 500+ homers and the career .292/.393/.514 line, 140 OPS+, and the fact that he walked more than he struck out and I say he's not an inner circle guy, but he's a Hall of Famer. I figure you guys know more about this stuff than I do so I'm interested in what you think.

 

By the numbers, he's certainly got the qualifications.

 

But the Balco stuff and his generally antagonistic relationship with the media will likely keep him out.

[CubbieBum]

Okay, so let me preface this by saying that I'm not good at judging if guys are Hall of Famers. But what do you guys think of Gary Sheffield with regards to the Hall of Fame? I was talking about this with my roommate yesterday, and I said he should be and my roommate shouldn't be. My roommate said that while his numbers are great that for the steroid era they're not great enough, and that the Balco nonsense has to knock him down a peg. Whereas I look at the 500+ homers and the career .292/.393/.514 line, 140 OPS+, and the fact that he walked more than he struck out and I say he's not an inner circle guy, but he's a Hall of Famer. I figure you guys know more about this stuff than I do so I'm interested in what you think.

 

By the numbers, he's certainly got the qualifications.

 

But the Balco stuff and his generally antagonistic relationship with the media will likely keep him out.

 

I would say there is a very slim chance he gets in. Guys even somewhat rumored to have done steroids are not getting votes. Sheff is as close as it gets to knowing a guy took steroids. He is one of THE guys in BALCO and anyone associated with that will almost definitely not get in because the players with votes will blacklist them.

 

Then as Rob said he was a complete jerk with the media so he won't get help from them.

[logn2k5]

My HOF question is: will anyone ever get the 100% vote? What happens when Maddux comes up, what arguments could someone come up with for voting against him, other than Babe Ruth didn't get 100%? Or maybe Jeter whenever that happens, productive and a media darling.

[Guest]

My HOF question is: will anyone ever get the 100% vote? What happens when Maddux comes up, what arguments could someone come up with for voting against him, other than Babe Ruth didn't get 100%? Or maybe Jeter whenever that happens, productive and a media darling.

 

No, and its because regardless of how good a player is, there's always one dumbass who doesn't vote for him.

[champaignchris]

What happens when Maddux comes up, what arguments could someone come up with for voting against him, other than Babe Ruth didn't get 100%?

 

Maddux was a better pitcher than Ruth was, so that should go out the window. :D

[Rob]

My HOF question is: will anyone ever get the 100% vote? What happens when Maddux comes up, what arguments could someone come up with for voting against him, other than Babe Ruth didn't get 100%? Or maybe Jeter whenever that happens, productive and a media darling.

 

It'll never happen.

 

Because the idiot who doesn't vote for what should be a unanimous guy will give his newspaper a pretty hefty boost in readership, at least for a few days.

[GlassCow]

Roberto Alomar

Bert Blyleven

Barry Larkin

Mark McGwire

Tim Raines

Alan Trammell

 

The Hawk doesn't make your list? For me it would be:

 

Dawson

Blyleven

Smith

Alomar

Larkin

[Clem Fandango]

Not sure if it's been posted, but there's a website devoted entirely to geting Tim Raines elected and has loads of facts as well as comments on articles proving the writers wrong. It's hugely informative and fun to read, and makes Tim Raines not being in the hall a grave injustice, which it is.

 

http://raines30.com/

[ELCABALLO45]

Blyleven should be a slam dunk.

[OleMissCub]

Kurkjian's case for Dawson

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=4776214

 

Some of his numbers speak loudly. There aren't too many Hall of Famers that won a rookie of the year, an MVP, finished second in the MVP race in two other seasons, started seven All-Star Games, won eight Gold Gloves and four Silver Sluggers. Dawson was one of the greatest combinations of speed, power and defense in history. He had 438 home runs and 314 steals; Barry Bonds and Willie Mays are the only others in the 400-300 club.

 

There are 18 players eligible for Cooperstown that have 1,500 RBIs and 400 homers, and they are all in. There are 11 eligible players with 2,700 hits, 1,500 RBIs and 400 homers. They're all in.

 

Dawson was as good defensively as offensively. He, Willie Mays, Mike Schmidt, Ken Griffey Jr. and Barry Bonds are the only players to hit 400 homers and win eight Gold Gloves.

 

Not sure about Gwynn's statement here. He had some dreadful OBP's numbers before he was "the man" on bad teams.

 

The main thing keeping Dawson out of Cooperstown is his .323 career on-base average, which clearly is not a Hall of Fame number, especially for an outfielder. Understandably, some voters can't get past that.

 

"They say his numbers fall short, but on his teams, he had to be the man," Gwynn said. "And when you're the man, sometimes you have to sacrifice your on-base percentage, not take a walk, to drive in a run and help your team win."

 

 

Personally, I can get over the OBP thing because of the rest of his body of work, coupled with the era he played, and his character strength/intangibles.

[SouthSideRyan]

The only case for Dawson I find acceptable is that Olympic Stadium ruined his knees sapping him of his speed, thus taking away his gold glove defense in CF. Dawson's #s from a RF aren't hall worthy. Gwynn's quote reminds of the Jim Rice FEAR garbage. Dawson's certainly more worthy than Rice was, but so are 50 other guys not in the hall.

[TruffleShuffle]

there were a couple of years when the giants' lineup was trash + barry bonds and his obp was about .900

[OleMissCub]

there were a couple of years when the giants' lineup was trash + barry bonds and his obp was about .900

 

that's because he genuinely WAS the most feared hitter in baseball

[erik316wttn]

there were a couple of years when the giants' lineup was trash + barry bonds and his obp was about .900

 

that's because he genuinely WAS the most feared hitter in baseball

 

Wasn't Andre once IBB'ed like 4 times in a single game?

 

And Andre was my absolute favorite player growing up, so I'd love to see him immortalized in Cooperstown. I'd go on eBay and buy another Dawson jersey (the blue one, to match the white one I already have)

[TruffleShuffle]

there were a couple of years when the giants' lineup was trash + barry bonds and his obp was about .900

 

that's because he genuinely WAS the most feared hitter in baseball

 

Wasn't Andre once IBB'ed like 4 times in a single game?

 

i don't know, but barry bonds was IBB'ed more in 2004 than andre dawson was during his entire career.

[Guest]

there were a couple of years when the giants' lineup was trash + barry bonds and his obp was about .900

 

that's because he genuinely WAS the most feared hitter in baseball

 

Wasn't Andre once IBB'ed like 4 times in a single game?

 

And Andre was my absolute favorite player growing up, so I'd love to see him immortalized in Cooperstown. I'd go on eBay and buy another Dawson jersey (the blue one, to match the white one I already have)

 

He was actually intentionally walked five times in this May 22, 1990 game against the Reds, though it came in 16 innings. It's the ML record for most IBB's in a single game.