Re-sign Harden or let him walk?

[soapy]

 

what about trading Lilly? 1 year $12 million left with no-trade protection.

 

I'd definitely entertain offers. Not sure you'd get much for one year of a 34 year old non ace pitcher. But they probably have to do something to free up money and bringing in more talent to the organization.

 

Right. The bolded would be my main objective. They need to upgrade the offense and may have the depth at SP to trade Lilly or Dempster if Harden is re-signed.

[soapy]

 

what about trading Lilly? 1 year $12 million left with no-trade protection.

We are still trying to win next year aren't we? Why in the world would you trade one of your top two starters?

As some others have pointed out, I don't think trading Lilly means they aren't trying to win next year. They may have the SP depth to do both. If the offense is going to be upgraded, they likely need to free up some money. I think Lilly, and possibly Dempster, are among the few tradeable assets the Cubs have they may bring is some reasonable value and free up cash.

[dew1679666265]

 

what about trading Lilly? 1 year $12 million left with no-trade protection.

We are still trying to win next year aren't we? Why in the world would you trade one of your top two starters?

As some others have pointed out, I don't think trading Lilly means they aren't trying to win next year. They may have the SP depth to do both. If the offense is going to be upgraded, they likely need to free up some money. I think Lilly, and possibly Dempster, are among the few tradeable assets the Cubs have they may bring is some reasonable value and free up cash.

 

I'm not sure who fits the bill, but they could deal Lilly to a pitching starved team and that team send back an impact bat at either second base or shortstop.

 

Instead of a Lilly for prospects deal, do a Lilly for impact bat deal.

[Keener98]

 

what about trading Lilly? 1 year $12 million left with no-trade protection.

We are still trying to win next year aren't we? Why in the world would you trade one of your top two starters?

As some others have pointed out, I don't think trading Lilly means they aren't trying to win next year. They may have the SP depth to do both. If the offense is going to be upgraded, they likely need to free up some money. I think Lilly, and possibly Dempster, are among the few tradeable assets the Cubs have they may bring is some reasonable value and free up cash.

 

I'm not sure who fits the bill, but they could deal Lilly to a pitching starved team and that team send back an impact bat at either second base or shortstop.

 

Instead of a Lilly for prospects deal, do a Lilly for impact bat deal.

 

The Mets?

[SouthSideRyan]

 

what about trading Lilly? 1 year $12 million left with no-trade protection.

We are still trying to win next year aren't we? Why in the world would you trade one of your top two starters?

As some others have pointed out, I don't think trading Lilly means they aren't trying to win next year. They may have the SP depth to do both. If the offense is going to be upgraded, they likely need to free up some money. I think Lilly, and possibly Dempster, are among the few tradeable assets the Cubs have they may bring is some reasonable value and free up cash.

 

I'm not sure who fits the bill, but they could deal Lilly to a pitching starved team and that team send back an impact bat at either second base or shortstop.

 

Instead of a Lilly for prospects deal, do a Lilly for impact bat deal.

 

The Mets?

 

The Mets aren't giving up Jose Reyes for 1 year of Ted Lilly, and Luis Castillo sucks.

[soapy]

I don't think you can get an impact player for Lilly anyway.

[nick23]

I don't think you can get an impact player for Lilly anyway.

I agree. Also, Lilly has been really good over the last 3 years. With Harden's injury history I'm not very confident with Wells, Gorz, and Marshall as our 4-6 starters.

[Keener98]

 

The Mets?

 

The Mets aren't giving up Jose Reyes for 1 year of Ted Lilly, and Luis Castillo sucks.

 

Way to ruin my dream damnit. Although if the Cubs had Reyes, they would probably move him to 2nd and keep Theriot at SS...

[soapy]

I don't think you can get an impact player for Lilly anyway.

I agree. Also, Lilly has been really good over the last 3 years. With Harden's injury history I'm not very confident with Wells, Gorz, and Marshall as our 4-6 starters.

 

I think you may see Cashner and Samardzija in the mix next year too (as sixth or seventh options). It's still a risk, I acknowledge, but I think it's likely their only chance at improving the offense enough to still make a run next season.

[dew1679666265]

I don't think you can get an impact player for Lilly anyway.

 

It depends on how loosely you define impact. I'm not talking about a Reyes or Rollins or Utley or similar to that.

 

The Braves wouldn't do this because they need offense, but more in the idea of Lilly (+ prospect?) for Yunel Escobar. Or to the Marlins for Dan Uggla.

 

Not an elite bat, but a highly productive player on a strong offensive team that needs pitching and might be willing to overpay a bit for a guy who's been really good since becoming a Cub. Like I said, there may not be a fit, but it'd be an avenue to look at.

[Cubbie Swagger]

If we can get Harden to come back for a reasonable price, I'd keep him around. I love the guy.

[Pushfrog98]

I'd let him walk, as illogical as it sounds this is the Cubs and should they re-sign him he'll spend most of the season on the DL, take the picks.

But how many of our picks actually turn into something?

 

How many of the top picks? At the very least, any 1st/2nd round pick should hold trade value in the first couple years of their professional career. Even if they never become big leaguers, they can be assets. The key is not offering them no-trade clauses.

How many of our recent 1st/2nd rounders have we given no-trade clauses to? I know Samardzija, but outside of him, I don't know.

 

None. And while it doesn't matter for the sake of this argument, Samardzija was a 5th rounder.

frick, I knew that too... I just had a brain fart.

[Flames24Rulz]

If we can get Harden to come back for a reasonable price, I'd keep him around. I love the guy.

 

This.

 

Problem is SP's are always in extremely high demand on the market, so I doubt that'll happen.

[MADD_DOG_31]

I don't think you can get an impact player for Lilly anyway.

I agree. Also, Lilly has been really good over the last 3 years. With Harden's injury history I'm not very confident with Wells, Gorz, and Marshall as our 4-6 starters.

 

I think you may see Cashner and Samardzija in the mix next year too (as sixth or seventh options). It's still a risk, I acknowledge, but I think it's likely their only chance at improving the offense enough to still make a run next season.

 

Samardzija is so far from being even a decent major league starter its not funny...the guy has one pitch that is a big league level pitch(Fastball) and he doesn't even have control of it....I really don't see him as anything but a marginal prospect at this point considering he hasn't really developed at all and his age

[Outshined_One]

Cashner might be in the rotation mix come mid-season, depending on where he starts and how he is looking health-wise. Apparently he's developed his changeup enough this season that he might end up with three quality pitches (along with his FB and slider), which would be excellent news for the Cubs. I'll be shocked if he starts the season in the Cubs' rotation, though.

 

Samardzija...I've pretty much given up on trying to evaluate the guy. He still has a huge ceiling and a ton of promise, but the Cubs rushed him to the majors before he could effectively develop his offspeed stuff. He could develop enough in the offseason to vie for a rotation spot, but my gut is that he'll probably start next season in the AAA rotation until Lou gets grumpy with the bullpen and decides he needs another arm to yo-yo back and forth between the majors and AAA (along with the bullpen and rotation).

[soapy]

as i said, i'm throwing in their names as 6th or 7th options as injury fill-ins and what not. i don't expect them to make the Cubs rotation out of ST or anything.

[jersey cubs fan]

as i said, i'm throwing in their names as 6th or 7th options as injury fill-ins and what not. i don't expect them to make the Cubs rotation out of ST or anything.

 

So a non-Lilly rotation with those guys as the 6/7 spots would look like:

 

Zambrano

Harden

Dempster

Wells

Gorzelanny? Marshall?

[wilk]

As a couple posters have already pointed out, you offer him arbitration and then you try to sign him for 2 years. However I'd be a little less pleased with the picks than some, so I'd get him signed. If it takes trading Wells or finding a taker for Dempster, we'd find a fit. I'd take Harden before any other starter on the roster going forward considering he's unquestionably the best pitcher.

[jersey cubs fan]

As a couple posters have already pointed out, you offer him arbitration and then you try to sign him for 2 years. However I'd be a little less pleased with the picks than some, so I'd get him signed. If it takes trading Wells or finding a taker for Dempster, we'd find a fit. I'd take Harden before any other starter on the roster going forward considering he's unquestionably the best pitcher.

 

It's questionable. At his best he's better than any other guys' best, but he's not often at his best and his injury history is a real setback.

[wilk]

I was talking about his "pitching ability" though and not necessarily his quantity of success. His "setbacks" are what will keep him from being a $150M pitcher and what even made him available to us. As the balance is, I absolutely take his talent and ability (and risks) at that rate.

[soapy]

as i said, i'm throwing in their names as 6th or 7th options as injury fill-ins and what not. i don't expect them to make the Cubs rotation out of ST or anything.

 

So a non-Lilly rotation with those guys as the 6/7 spots would look like:

 

Zambrano

Harden

Dempster

Wells

Gorzelanny? Marshall?

basically, yeah.

[Guest]

jackson, carpenter and cashner will all begin the season in AA or better. The Cubs should be able to fill the back end of a rotation adequately next year.

 

Problem is that they're likely to need better than adequate production from pitching to be a great team next year as the offense looks to simply age another year. Perhaps not quite as many injuries / poor performances as this year's near worst case scenario, but not a lot of changes are going to be made to upgrade things, either.

[loukycub]

this team need an offensive presence badly in the lineup, preferably 2b-ss, but wherever you can get it at this point.

 

if you let harden walk, who could we sign with the money that would have been allocated to harden that would fit fitting the offensive needs and/or defensive needs?

 

i don't know much about the upcoming free agent pool. i don't suspect that it has any decent middle infielders or impact bats in it. if there's no one out there to bring in with harden's money, i say offer arbitration or just resign him outright. i believe its easier to keep effective starters (because with his injury i don't think he's going to get any better offers than what we would give him) than it is to go get effective starters.

 

i'd much rather see if someone would take bradley off our hands (full disclosure, i was against his signing). it's not because he's not productive because he has been, he's just been productive in areas that we don't really need his production and he's not producing the way his contract says he should be producing. if bradley is not going to be used where his obp can be used to its maximum (that being leadoff or second), we don't need a second kosuke who is slower, more injury prone and plays worse defense.

[Outshined_One]

i don't know much about the upcoming free agent pool. i don't suspect that it has any decent middle infielders or impact bats in it.

 

Link

[Guest]

 

The Mets?

 

The Mets aren't giving up Jose Reyes for 1 year of Ted Lilly, and Luis Castillo sucks.

 

Way to ruin my dream damnit. Although if the Cubs had Reyes, they would probably move him to 2nd and keep Theriot at SS...

I'll bet a thousand cyberdollars that Omar gets fired and Reyes gets traded this offseason.

 

I don't know if Lilly would be what/who they would look for though.