Seriously

[jersey cubs fan]

Why the hell would we fire Lou?

 

Because he's a poor manager?

 

"What are you talking about?!? He won us back to back division titles and won 97 games last season!"

 

Seriously, Lou has gotten progressively worse since he's gotten here, and has been flat out BRUTAL this season.

 

I'm not even saying he should or will be fired, but come on. There's a very good reason a lot of people want him gone. Stop looking at win/loss records to determine how good a manager is. Look at the moves he makes and what he does. If you do that, it's easy to see that he's been pretty awful.

 

If Lou is terrible and should have won more games with the team he has, then Hendry must have put together a 100 win team. You can't hate Hendry AND Lou AND acknowledge that there have been a ridiculous number of injuries/under-performances. Lou is a great manager despite his flaws.

 

What evidence is there that he "is great"?

[Gmoney08]

naturally, he makes some valid points and the only responses are making fun of his spelling. great conversation fellas

 

+1

 

Actually it's a bunch of BS. We're supposed to be happy with this team because they won the division 2 years in a row and are 2nd now? They've had one really good year in the Hendry era. One 90+ win season. They won the division with 85 wins the year before, a win by default more than accomplishment. They should be dominating this division every year with their incredible financial advantage over the competition, but their inefficient use of those resources is a waste. You have a manager whining about stupid stuff like needing left handers and a GM who is more than happy to waste money providing those unnecessarily specific demands.

 

And the health excuse is a bunch of garbage. Rich Harden is going to be on the DL. We knew that before he was acquired, they acknowledge it when he was acquired. The fact that they decided to stop with the preventive measures of extra rest for him this year doesn't all of a sudden make it accepable to say, "oh geez this season would be great if Harden didn't surprise us and go on the DL." And Zambrano? He has an issue every season, plus he's a pitcher with a ton of innings on his arm the past several years, he is going to miss time. Bradley is an injury machine. Ramirez gets hurt every year.

 

The team we have is fine? If fine is what you want, then be happy. But I think being a fan of a team, and wanting them to win a lot, would seem to be a good reason to want more than fine. Fine gets you 85 wins, which normally doesn't get you in the playoffs.

 

Quit bitching about fans who actually want the team they root for to win lots of games. Because this team isn't and they will need improvements to do so.

 

Except Harden wasnt the only player injured this year? We have had like 8 players who have been in the All Star game the past 3 years injured.

[jersey cubs fan]

naturally, he makes some valid points and the only responses are making fun of his spelling. great conversation fellas

 

+1

 

Actually it's a bunch of BS. We're supposed to be happy with this team because they won the division 2 years in a row and are 2nd now? They've had one really good year in the Hendry era. One 90+ win season. They won the division with 85 wins the year before, a win by default more than accomplishment. They should be dominating this division every year with their incredible financial advantage over the competition, but their inefficient use of those resources is a waste. You have a manager whining about stupid stuff like needing left handers and a GM who is more than happy to waste money providing those unnecessarily specific demands.

 

And the health excuse is a bunch of garbage. Rich Harden is going to be on the DL. We knew that before he was acquired, they acknowledge it when he was acquired. The fact that they decided to stop with the preventive measures of extra rest for him this year doesn't all of a sudden make it accepable to say, "oh geez this season would be great if Harden didn't surprise us and go on the DL." And Zambrano? He has an issue every season, plus he's a pitcher with a ton of innings on his arm the past several years, he is going to miss time. Bradley is an injury machine. Ramirez gets hurt every year.

 

The team we have is fine? If fine is what you want, then be happy. But I think being a fan of a team, and wanting them to win a lot, would seem to be a good reason to want more than fine. Fine gets you 85 wins, which normally doesn't get you in the playoffs.

 

Quit bitching about fans who actually want the team they root for to win lots of games. Because this team isn't and they will need improvements to do so.

 

Except Harden wasnt the only player injured this year? We have had like 8 players who have been in the All Star game the past 3 years injured.

 

He also wasn't the only one I mentioned. Zambrano has an issue every season now, Ramirez gets hurt every season, Bradley is almost always hurt, Lilly doesn't have a long history of high innings and health, he was due to go down at least part of his contract.

 

You have a team of 30+ year olds with injury histories, you can't pretend the injuries are a fluke and everything is fine and will stay fine. Soto was a fat catcher who got in shape for two years and then came into this season fat. He's the only real "can you believe that" injury guy, yet it's hardly a fluke. Besides, he's a catcher, they always get hurt.

[Rob]

Why the hell would we fire Lou?

 

Because he's a poor manager?

 

"What are you talking about?!? He won us back to back division titles and won 97 games last season!"

 

Seriously, Lou has gotten progressively worse since he's gotten here, and has been flat out BRUTAL this season.

 

I'm not even saying he should or will be fired, but come on. There's a very good reason a lot of people want him gone. Stop looking at win/loss records to determine how good a manager is. Look at the moves he makes and what he does. If you do that, it's easy to see that he's been pretty awful.

 

If Lou is terrible and should have won more games with the team he has, then Hendry must have put together a 100 win team. You can't hate Hendry AND Lou AND acknowledge that there have been a ridiculous number of injuries/under-performances. Lou is a great manager despite his flaws.

 

What evidence is there that he "is great"?

 

I don't know if it's enough to qualify him as great... but he certainly does have some great attributes.

 

For one, we know that he absolutely has a positive effect in certain ways. This is Lou Piniella's Cubs everytime the media mentions it. We don't get a bunch of negative attention for showboating players, clubhouse fights, etc... he absolutely takes a lot of media pressure off the team by being the one in the spotlight all the time.

 

Also, I really have to give it to him... he does a fantastic job of handing the workloads of our starting pitchers. He could be a bit better working the back of the bullpen guys into more games... but all in all I have very few qualms about how he handles our pitching staff (aside from the occasional guy like Wuertz or Hill whom gets stuck in his doghouse and can never get out).

 

His lineups generally didn't contain Andres Blanco batting first or second... He brought in Trammell, who has done an excellent job as the bench coach.

 

And I'm sure there's plenty more. Like many of you, he was far from my first choice... but that doesn't mean he hasn't done quite an admirable job of managing... despite the occasional hit and run gone bad.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't know if it's enough to qualify him as great... but he certainly does have some great attributes.

 

For one, we know that he absolutely has a positive effect in certain ways. This is Lou Piniella's Cubs everytime the media mentions it. We don't get a bunch of negative attention for showboating players, clubhouse fights, etc... he absolutely takes a lot of media pressure off the team by being the one in the spotlight all the time.

 

Also, I really have to give it to him... he does a fantastic job of handing the workloads of our starting pitchers. He could be a bit better working the back of the bullpen guys into more games... but all in all I have very few qualms about how he handles our pitching staff (aside from the occasional guy like Wuertz or Hill whom gets stuck in his doghouse and can never get out).

 

His lineups generally didn't contain Andres Blanco batting first or second... He brought in Trammell, who has done an excellent job as the bench coach.

 

And I'm sure there's plenty more. Like many of you, he was far from my first choice... but that doesn't mean he hasn't done quite an admirable job of managing... despite the occasional hit and run gone bad.

 

I would say the bolded is what sets him apart from the worst of the worst like Baker, plus at least an acceptance that it is important to get on base by any means necessary. Plus he appears to have the ability to think more than a one bat in advance. But he tries to make things happen too much, has a ridiculous doghouse/first impressions are all that matter mentality, and obsession with righties and lefties, that makes him like most managers. All of that says to me he's not great. He's a manager, they don't win games, they can only screw things up. He does it from time to time, but is not too much of a problem.

[Soul]

I'm all for the "Lou's an idiot thread." But I believe it would be longer with some other managers. Doesn't mean we can't improve. I will be very interested to see where we go next, when the time comes.