Cubs 2nd to last in the NL in OPS aftrer 7th inning

[abuck1220]

in my face.

[imb]

one thing that people need to realize is that the belief in clutch players is really founded on some faulty stuff.

 

you only watch the cubs (for the most part). the players on the cubs fail more than they succeed (the old "a .300 hitter fails 7 out of 10 times" argument.) so when a player comes up in a clutch situation, the odds are already stacked against them. it's the same reason that people freak out about refs being out to screw them, they only see when calls go against their own team.

[Drew Doughty]

one thing that people need to realize is that the belief in clutch players is really founded on some faulty stuff.

 

you only watch the cubs (for the most part). the players on the cubs fail more than they succeed (the old "a .300 hitter fails 7 out of 10 times" argument.) so when a player comes up in a clutch situation, the odds are already stacked against them. it's the same reason that people freak out about refs being out to screw them, they only see when calls go against their own team.

 

i wonder where cynosure is.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

one thing that people need to realize is that the belief in clutch players is really founded on some faulty stuff.

 

One of the great/awful things about human cognitive biases is that they give us a blind spot for our cognitive biases.

[erik316wttn]

one thing that people need to realize is that the belief in clutch players is really founded on some faulty stuff.

 

you only watch the cubs (for the most part). the players on the cubs fail more than they succeed (the old "a .300 hitter fails 7 out of 10 times" argument.) so when a player comes up in a clutch situation, the odds are already stacked against them. it's the same reason that people freak out about refs being out to screw them, they only see when calls go against their own team.

 

Hey, an actual, coherent argument by IMB. I'm impressed!

[Guest]

one thing that people need to realize is that the belief in clutch players is really founded on some faulty stuff.

 

you only watch the cubs (for the most part). the players on the cubs fail more than they succeed (the old "a .300 hitter fails 7 out of 10 times" argument.) so when a player comes up in a clutch situation, the odds are already stacked against them. it's the same reason that people freak out about refs being out to screw them, they only see when calls go against their own team.

 

Hey, an actual, coherent argument by IMB. I'm impressed!

 

Are you not going to respond to it?

[Cubfanintheknow]

Is there any place to find what this statistic was for the Cubs at the end of every month? Seems like this problem surfaced its ugly head in April and has been an issue all-season long.

[SouthSideRyan]

one thing that people need to realize is that the belief in clutch players is really founded on some faulty stuff.

 

you only watch the cubs (for the most part). the players on the cubs fail more than they succeed (the old "a .300 hitter fails 7 out of 10 times" argument.) so when a player comes up in a clutch situation, the odds are already stacked against them. it's the same reason that people freak out about refs being out to screw them, they only see when calls go against their own team.

 

Hey, an actual, coherent argument by IMB. I'm impressed!

 

Are you not going to respond to it?

 

It's a coherent argument.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Is there any place to find what this statistic was for the Cubs at the end of every month? Seems like this problem surfaced its ugly head in April and has been an issue all-season long.

 

To what statistic are you referring ??

[imb]

Is there any place to find what this statistic was for the Cubs at the end of every month? Seems like this problem surfaced its ugly head in April and has been an issue all-season long.

 

www.fred.com

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Is there any place to find what this statistic was for the Cubs at the end of every month? Seems like this problem surfaced its ugly head in April and has been an issue all-season long.

 

To what statistic are you referring ??

 

I assume he means OPS in Innings 7+.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Is there any place to find what this statistic was for the Cubs at the end of every month? Seems like this problem surfaced its ugly head in April and has been an issue all-season long.

 

To what statistic are you referring ??

 

I assume he means OPS in Innings 7+.

 

In that case, here are the numbers...........

 

Late (7th on)      AB    R    H   2b   3b   HR  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS  BABIP  P/PA   IsoD   RBI%
April             236   26   53    9    0   11   23   23   57  0.225  0.295  0.403  0.698  0.250  3.87  0.070  0.107
May               270   29   71    9    0    9   27   24   69  0.263  0.323  0.396  0.720  0.323  3.90  0.060  0.143
June              342   32   74   11    0   10   30   34   87  0.216  0.291  0.336  0.628  0.261  3.87  0.075  0.122
July              292   34   69   11    4    7   30   38   73  0.236  0.325  0.373  0.699  0.292  3.85  0.089  0.146
August             92    9   20    4    1    4    8   11   21  0.217  0.308  0.413  0.721  0.239  3.77  0.090  0.077

[erik316wttn]

Ouch. June was brutal.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Ouch. June was brutal.

 

Yes, it was......

 

CUBS are 10-11 in April 
CUBS are 15-13 in May 
CUBS are 11-14 in June 
CUBS are 18-9 in July 
CUBS are 4-4 in August 

[Cubfanintheknow]

Fred, the numbers you posted are the ones I was referring to. Thank you.

 

Amazing to me that that the Cubs have really not been able to improve themselves in that area all season long. What started in April pretty much continues to this day.

 

And it sucks.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Fred, the numbers you posted are the ones I was referring to. Thank you.

 

Amazing to me that that the Cubs have really not been able to improve themselves in that area all season long. What started in April pretty much continues to this day.

 

And it sucks.

 

We're so anti-clutch !!!

[Magnetic Curses]

 

But, if a player peforms a positive result more often than most other players in clutch situations, couldn't that player be defined as "clutch?"

 

by you, and that's all that matters, right?

 

only your head is going to explode when that same player seemingly craps the bed the next season in those situations. it'll be like meeting your future self that looks totally different.

[DivineBovine]

I don't understand why people find it so hard to believe that "clutch" exists. Athletes in every sport ever played have choked. Football players. Basketball players. Golfers. Speedskaters. Some people handle pressure better than others. Is it so hard to believe that this is the case in baseball as well? How can statisticians equate the act of hitting a ball moving irregularly and unpredictable near 100 mph to a coin flip or a roll of the dice?

 

The Cubs have been playing under more pressure in the past 5 years than any other team in baseball. The Red Sox have won. The White Sox have won. The Yankees win all the time. Cub fans have suffered more than any other fans in sports. It's only natural the players want to win badly, and feel the pressure, no matter what they say.

 

Look at the "clutch" stats. Look at the dismal playoff record in recent years. Look at what we do when we have a critical series against the Rockies while the Cards play AAAA teams. We lose. We leave men on base. We strike out. We can't make pitches.

 

Believe me, I am as scientific as the next guy. But I am definitely a believer in the effects pressure has on a ballclub. To me, that is what "clutch" means. Performance under pressure. I definitely feel that the Cubs are under a ton of pressure, and I definitely believe in "clutch".

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Believe me, I am as scientific as the next guy. But I am definitely a believer in the effects pressure has on a ballclub. To me, that is what "clutch" means. Performance under pressure. I definitely feel that the Cubs are under a ton of pressure, and I definitely believe in "clutch".

 

So your theory is:

 

Play in high school and know scouts are in the stands? No problem.

Play in minor leagues knowing your future as a ballplayer is on the line each and every season? No problem.

Break into the big leagues, knowing that rookies need to perform immediately or get labeled "AAAA," No problem.

Play for a team whose fans really want to win? Oh no, too much pressure!

[abuck1220]

I don't understand why people find it so hard to believe that "clutch" exists. Athletes in every sport ever played have choked.

 

right, and choking exists. clutch does not.

[17 Seconds]

Believe me, I am as scientific as the next guy. But I am definitely a believer in the effects pressure has on a ballclub. To me, that is what "clutch" means. Performance under pressure. I definitely feel that the Cubs are under a ton of pressure, and I definitely believe in "clutch".

 

So your theory is:

 

Play in high school and know scouts are in the stands? No problem.

Play in minor leagues knowing your future as a ballplayer is on the line each and every season? No problem.

Break into the big leagues, knowing that rookies need to perform immediately or get labeled "AAAA," No problem.

Play for a team whose fans really want to win? Oh no, too much pressure!

 

There's a difference between pressure coming from yourself and pressure coming from millions of rabid fans who are ready to label you satan if you don't perform in the biggest situations.

 

I mean, are you really going to pretend like the Cubs getting swept the last 2 seasons had absolutely nothing to do with pressure and choking?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

There's a difference between pressure coming from yourself and pressure coming from millions of rabid fans who are ready to label you satan if you don't perform in the biggest situations.

 

I mean, are you really going to pretend like the Cubs getting swept the last 2 seasons had absolutely nothing to do with pressure and choking?

 

Are you really going to pretend that Cubs fans are anywhere close to the most pressure-inducing fans in baseball?

 

I suspect anyone who would argue that fans put more pressure on the athletes than their own self-interests has never, in their entire life, actually met an athlete.

[webjim25]

Believe me, I am as scientific as the next guy. But I am definitely a believer in the effects pressure has on a ballclub. To me, that is what "clutch" means. Performance under pressure. I definitely feel that the Cubs are under a ton of pressure, and I definitely believe in "clutch".

 

So your theory is:

 

Play in high school and know scouts are in the stands? No problem.

Play in minor leagues knowing your future as a ballplayer is on the line each and every season? No problem.

Break into the big leagues, knowing that rookies need to perform immediately or get labeled "AAAA," No problem.

Play for a team whose fans really want to win? Oh no, too much pressure!

 

There's a difference between pressure coming from yourself and pressure coming from millions of rabid fans who are ready to label you satan if you don't perform in the biggest situations.

 

I mean, are you really going to pretend like the Cubs getting swept the last 2 seasons had absolutely nothing to do with pressure and choking?

 

Seeing as how Arizona and LA had just as much "pressure," the answer is pressure had the least to do with it.

[17 Seconds]

Believe me, I am as scientific as the next guy. But I am definitely a believer in the effects pressure has on a ballclub. To me, that is what "clutch" means. Performance under pressure. I definitely feel that the Cubs are under a ton of pressure, and I definitely believe in "clutch".

 

So your theory is:

 

Play in high school and know scouts are in the stands? No problem.

Play in minor leagues knowing your future as a ballplayer is on the line each and every season? No problem.

Break into the big leagues, knowing that rookies need to perform immediately or get labeled "AAAA," No problem.

Play for a team whose fans really want to win? Oh no, too much pressure!

 

There's a difference between pressure coming from yourself and pressure coming from millions of rabid fans who are ready to label you satan if you don't perform in the biggest situations.

 

I mean, are you really going to pretend like the Cubs getting swept the last 2 seasons had absolutely nothing to do with pressure and choking?

 

Seeing as how Arizona and LA had just as much "pressure," the answer is pressure had the least to do with it.

 

Umm, either that or they handled the pressure better, which is the whole point of this thread.

 

Also, those teams did not have as much pressure on them as the Cubs. Not even close.

 

Are you telling me you don't think the Cubs choked at all in the past 2 postseasons?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Umm, either that or they handled the pressure better, which is the whole point of this thread.

 

Also, those teams did not have as much pressure on them as the Cubs. Not even close.

 

Are you telling me you don't think the Cubs choked at all in the past 2 postseasons?

 

I'm telling you that you are absolutely, positively, 100% delusional on this subject if you think that athletes give one whit of care how much the fans want the team to win.