Rios to the White Sox

[Vanilla Ice]

Dexter, why are you always the only person on your side of the argument?

[17 Seconds]

Dexter, why are you always the only person on your side of the argument?

 

Probably because most people here dislike me and have no interest in defending me if they agree

 

Any other hard hitting questions? Or would you rather just keep taking personal shots at me instead of sticking to the argument.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If nothing else, you have to commend Williams for having balls. In the past 2 weeks, hes pulled off 2 massive moves that could just as easily take his team to the top as blow up in his face. If Rios does what hes done all year for the remainder of his contract, and they let Dye and Thome walk, and Konerko the follwing year, it could look very bad. On the other hand, if Rios goes back to doing what got him that contract to begin with, Kenny looks like a genious.

[DiamondMind]

year / $$ worth / $$ paid

 

2006 / 12.1M / .4M

2007 / 18.9M / 2.5M

2008 / 24.6M / 4.8M

2009 / 4.9M / --

 

He's been worth well above his contract. Last year he was worth 54.8 runs over a replacement.

 

And yes, Kenny Williams has a giant set of stones. At least the Sox like, do stuff.

Edited August 11, 2009 by DiamondMind

[SouthSideRyan]

year / $$ worth / $$ paid

 

2006 / 12.1M / .4M

2007 / 18.9M / 2.5M

2008 / 24.6M / 4.8M

2009 / 4.9M / --

 

He's been worth well above his contract. Last year he was worth 54.8 runs over a replacement.

 

Thanks to an unsustainable defensive rating.

[DiamondMind]

year / $$ worth / $$ paid

 

2006 / 12.1M / .4M

2007 / 18.9M / 2.5M

2008 / 24.6M / 4.8M

2009 / 4.9M / --

 

He's been worth well above his contract. Last year he was worth 54.8 runs over a replacement.

 

Thanks to an unsustainable defensive rating.

 

9 runs above average, and 24 above average in 07 and 08. So yea. But not ALL his value is defensive. It just contributes more than most to his expected value.

 

I dunno, I'm a fan of this move. Thome, Dye, Quentin, Podsednik...one if not all are unsustainable. I like the Rios acquisition for the long haul, not for an attempted playoff run this year, although it should help there too.

[17 Seconds]

year / $$ worth / $$ paid

 

2006 / 12.1M / .4M

2007 / 18.9M / 2.5M

2008 / 24.6M / 4.8M

2009 / 4.9M / --

 

He's been worth well above his contract. Last year he was worth 54.8 runs over a replacement.

 

And yes, Kenny Williams has a giant set of stones. At least the Sox like, do stuff.

 

is that the same formula that had willie harris being worth like 16 million last year?

 

the fact of the matter is that right niow, teams pay for offense. they don't pay for defense. that forumla has willie harris being worth 16 million because of his defense, but it would be ridiculous to actually give him that.

 

why? because you don't have to. if all you want is a badass defender, you can get them for dirt cheap

[Little Slide Rooter]

 

And yes, Kenny Williams has a giant set of stones. At least the Sox like, do stuff.

 

The Cubs are always doing stuff. Were just handcuffed now by the sale or lack there of.

 

The White Sox keep doing these little quiet moves that end up paying off for them, such as Dye, Pierzynskie, Floyd, Danks, Podsednik, Quentin, and bringing up Gordon Beckham. They just dont tend to make splashes like they did with Peavy and Rios.

 

The Cubs dont like taking chances on players unless they're extremely low risk. I cant imagine Jim Hendry going out and signing a guy like Jermaine Dye, or trade veteran pitchers for guys like Floyd and Danks. If we were to ever sign a former top prospect like Carlos Quentin, he probably never would have made his way out of Iowa.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

why? because you don't have to. if all you want is a badass defender, you can get them for dirt cheap

 

This is why I'm not a huge Rios guy. He's only projected to barely be worth his huge contract, and you can get a reasonable proxy of his production with a platoon of like Sam Fuld and Ryan Spilborghs.

[Geech]

Oh, man. Do you guys realize what this means? We might have to face him in the series. :(

[Little Slide Rooter]

Oh, man. Do you guys realize what this means? We might have to face him in the series. :(

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO a sub .800 OPSer. Were DOOOMMED

[cubsfan26]

From 1999-2003 Jacque Jones hit 291/332/797 with 85 HR and 323 RBI's. Rios from 2004-2009 has hit 285/335/786 with 81 HR's and 335 RBI's. Now I'm not saying Rios is Jacque Jones, but that just shows as a hitter he's not a 12m per year player. Sure with his defense if he was making 6-8m per year, over the next three years or so I would say it was a good deal. But 5 years at 60m for this guy is a huge gamble. The simple fact is if Rios was a free agent this offseason, there's no way he would get anything close to that contract. So it's currently a bad contract and a risky contract to take on long term. So unless Rios starts putting up numbers like he did in 07 or better year after year. The Chicago media is going to turn on this guy quick.

[SweetZombieJesus]

From 1999-2003 Jacque Jones hit 291/332/797 with 85 HR and 323 RBI's. Rios from 2004-2009 has hit 285/335/786 with 81 HR's and 335 RBI's. Now I'm not saying Rios is Jacque Jones, but that just shows as a hitter he's not a 12m per year player. Sure with his defense if he was making 6-8m per year, over the next three years or so I would say it was a good deal. But 5 years at 60m for this guy is a huge gamble. The simple fact is if Rios was a free agent this offseason, there's no way he would get anything close to that contract. So it's currently a bad contract and a risky contract to take on long term. So unless Rios starts putting up numbers like he did in 07 or better year after year. The Chicago media is going to turn on this guy quick.

 

Except as a corner OF they are not 12 million dollar players. At CF it's debatable. according to the major league split. The difference between the average RF compared to the average CF is between 30-40 points of OPS

[RedFlash]

From 1999-2003 Jacque Jones hit 291/332/797 with 85 HR and 323 RBI's. Rios from 2004-2009 has hit 285/335/786 with 81 HR's and 335 RBI's. Now I'm not saying Rios is Jacque Jones, but that just shows as a hitter he's not a 12m per year player. Sure with his defense if he was making 6-8m per year, over the next three years or so I would say it was a good deal. But 5 years at 60m for this guy is a huge gamble. The simple fact is if Rios was a free agent this offseason, there's no way he would get anything close to that contract. So it's currently a bad contract and a risky contract to take on long term. So unless Rios starts putting up numbers like he did in 07 or better year after year. The Chicago media is going to turn on this guy quick.

 

Except as a corner OF they are not 12 million dollar players. At CF it's debatable. according to the major league split. The difference between the average RF compared to the average CF is between 30-40 points of OPS

 

Rios will play CF this yr and most think he is the eventual replacement to Dye in RF. Rios in RF= bad contract for his production. Rios in CF=tolerable contract for essential a league average at the position player. So if the Sox move him back to RF starting in 10 then this is awfully big gamble.

[SweetZombieJesus]

From 1999-2003 Jacque Jones hit 291/332/797 with 85 HR and 323 RBI's. Rios from 2004-2009 has hit 285/335/786 with 81 HR's and 335 RBI's. Now I'm not saying Rios is Jacque Jones, but that just shows as a hitter he's not a 12m per year player. Sure with his defense if he was making 6-8m per year, over the next three years or so I would say it was a good deal. But 5 years at 60m for this guy is a huge gamble. The simple fact is if Rios was a free agent this offseason, there's no way he would get anything close to that contract. So it's currently a bad contract and a risky contract to take on long term. So unless Rios starts putting up numbers like he did in 07 or better year after year. The Chicago media is going to turn on this guy quick.

 

Except as a corner OF they are not 12 million dollar players. At CF it's debatable. according to the major league split. The difference between the average RF compared to the average CF is between 30-40 points of OPS

 

Rios will play CF this yr and most think he is the eventual replacement to Dye in RF. Rios in RF= bad contract for his production. Rios in CF=tolerable contract for essential a league average at the position player. So if the Sox move him back to RF starting in 10 then this is awfully big gamble.

 

If they move him to RF it's a terrible contract and the same kind of stupidity that did the Jay's in. Moving rios to right means you better have Sizemore, Kemp or Beltran not scott freaking posednik.

[Backtobanks]

Basically, Rios in CF with power hitters at the corners in the OF and 1B is a decent option. Losing one or more of the older power hitters (Dye, Thome, Konerko) could lead to problems. So much for all of the "Ozzie-ball" talk including Posednick. Solid, decent, and overpriced are the best adjectives for Rios.

[illiniguy]

Does a move to that park project to help his offense enough to make this game worthwhile.

[Backtobanks]

Does a move to that park project to help his offense enough to make this game worthwhile.

 

Of course any increased offensive production by Rios because of the Cell will be nullified by decreased pitching production by Peavy.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Does a move to that park project to help his offense enough to make this game worthwhile.

 

Of course any increased offensive production by Rios because of the Cell will be nullified by decreased pitching production by Peavy.

 

That doesnt really make sense. Peavy will do what he does every 5th day. While I dont see him doing what he did in the NL, he'll still be a significant upgrade over what they have. Rios and Peavy are both part of a rebuilding process which will see guys like Konerko, Dye, Thome, Contreres, and AJ leaving town in the next 2 years.

[Backtobanks]

Does a move to that park project to help his offense enough to make this game worthwhile.

 

Of course any increased offensive production by Rios because of the Cell will be nullified by decreased pitching production by Peavy.

 

That doesnt really make sense. Peavy will do what he does every 5th day. While I dont see him doing what he did in the NL, he'll still be a significant upgrade over what they have. Rios and Peavy are both part of a rebuilding process which will see guys like Konerko, Dye, Thome, Contreres, and AJ leaving town in the next 2 years.

 

There's no doubt that Peavy and Rios are (and will be) significant upgrades over what the WS have now, but the question remains as to whether each of them will be worth the price paid (in dollars and players). For all of the talk about Ozzie-ball, he has been able to count on the bombs by Konerko, Dye, and Thome for quite a few years now. Where are those big power numbers going to come from after they leave? Trying to trade for or sign a big-time slugger is going to cost money or prospects that they don't have.

[Backtobanks]

Quite a few links to Chicago from MLBTR:

 

Zambrano was listed as one type of bad contract (not one of the worst)

 

A different kind of bad contract: Carlos Zambrano (5 years, $91.5 million). The contracts that I list below as the worst are those where (in my opinion) a team has wildly overpaid a player for the production they will get. This could be the case with Zambrano, certainly, but it’s a different deal because Zambrano’s still a good pitcher, and quite often an awesome pitcher. His problems are … er … tougher to define

 

Worst Contracts in Baseball Blog by Joe Posanski

 

11. B.J. Ryan (out of baseball). Blue Jays still owe Ryan $10 million NEXT YEAR off 5 year, $47 million. To be fair to Ricciardi, I said I was going to consider injuries and Ryan was dominant in 2006 before having Tommy John surgery in 2007. But you know what? You give a 30-year-old relief pitcher (coming off one good season) that much money, and you end up having to release him with about $15 million still on the books … yeah, that’s a disastrous decision.

 

10. Jeff Suppan (MIlwaukee Brewers). He has two years and $25 million left on a contract — $27 million if you count the buyout. And he is 15-18 with a 5.09 ERA since start of the 2008 season. And he turns 35 in January. I’m just not too sure you’re going to make big strides as a team by signing 32-year-old inning-eaters for a lot of money.

 

9. Travis Hafner (Cleveland Indians). He has three years at $13 million per left on his four-year deal … and a buyout on top. The reason this is not higher on the list is you can certainly understand why the Indians made the deal. Hafner had led the American League in OPS+ twice. He was coming off a year when he hit .308/.439/.649 — tough to argue with those numbers.

 

BUT … they gave him the contract in the middle of the 2007 season, when he turned 30, when his numbers had already started to take a precipitous fall, when he had not shown an ability to stay healthy (he had never even played 150 games in a season when they gave him the deal). PLUS, he’s a big, slow guy who literally cannot play a single defensive position … he has not put on a glove for a big league game since 2007. Hafner has shown a little spark of offensive life this year, but he has so many injury problems, and he’s 32 years old, and this contract surely will only look worse as time goes on.

 

8. Kerry Wood (Cleveland Indians). He signed before this season for 2 years at $11 million per and there’s a reasonable chance it will kick in and become a three-year deal. He has been terrible this year but that’s not even the problem … Why would you spend all that money to sign a 31-turning-32-year-old pitcher with a long line of injury problems who has never pitched in the American League and has had one decent year as a closer? Mark Shapiro seems to me a bright guy who has done some good things … but this was a head-scratcher to me.

 

7. Alex Rios (Chicago White Sox). I originally had this as the second-worst contract in the game … but that was blowing this out of proportion. Several readers make the strong point that it really is not THAT bad, and I’m probably overreacting to the off-season he’s having now. Either way, this is the third deal where Ricciardi has hit the ejector button in the middle of the contract (B.J. Ryan and Frank Thomas coming first). At least this one, someone else picked up the tab — and yes, Kenny Williams will now be the one judged on how this contract turns out.

 

6. Gary Matthews (Angels). Still has two years and $23 million left on his contract, which is tough because he has become one of the worst hitters in baseball (74 OPS+ and .346 slugging percentage last two years) and the two big defensive stats I like — UZR and Dewan — both suggest he has lost whatever he might have had defensively. This was another example of a player with a long history of being below average (89 career OPS+ for seven teams between 1999 and 2005), then having one good year and making one incredible catch, and then signing for big money at age 32.

 

One funny part of this, though, is that I don’t think the Angels have a lot of buyer’s remorse here. They are a weird team, the Angels. They just chug along, year after year. They pretty wildly overpay for a player now and again. They give players odd roles. They do odd things that make you wonder what the heck is going on over there. But they make the playoffs almost every year, and they seem to deal pretty well with whatever mistakes they make. Matthews plays quite a lot for the Angels, and he has a 69 OPS+, but the Angels continue to score runs like crazy. It’s just weird over there.

 

5. Alfonso Soriano (Cubs). Wow, the Cubs owe him $18 million per year for the next four. And he’s going to be 34 years old in January. And he has a 90 OPS+ this year and he seems to have lost his speed, which was a big part of his game. Bad stuff.

 

Funny, I kind of thought that in many ways Soriano was underrated when the Cubs signed him … underrated because a lot of people seemed to be talking about all the things he couldn’t do (he didn’t walk, he struck out a ton, he was moody and didn’t want to change positions) and were kind of missing some of the obvious things he could DO such as the fact that he had a 40-40 season (and was one homer away from a SECOND 40-40 season) and was showing improvement even in those troubled areas (he walked a career high 67 times in Washington and moved to left field).

 

Still … eight-year deal. Damn. You better be SURE before you give someone an eight year deal, especially a guy two months away from his 31st birthday. Check that: There’s no way you could be THAT sure about a player about to turn 31. Soriano still has some value as a player, but you’ve got to think that deal will only look worse from here on in.

 

4. Carlos Silva (Seattle Mariners). Three years left on that four year, $48 million deal … and a buyout to boot. Funny, people will constantly rip the Yankees and Red Sox and teams like that for all the money they spend … but it is teams like the Mariners, Royals, Brewers, Blue Jays and Indians that seem to actually make the worst signings.

 

I have absolutely no idea what the heck the Mariners could have been thinking when they gave Sliva that money. The previous two years, he was 24-29 with a 5.01 ERA. He never could strike out anyone. He was turning 29, which ain’t exactly young. Of course he went 4-15 with a 6.46 ERA last year with the Mariners. Of course he was dreadful this year and then got hurt. Of course. This is the sort of signing that makes me wish, just once, I could be in on one of these meetings just so I could HEAR what these people are saying when they make these moves.

 

3. Barry Zito (San Francisco Giants). Four more years at about $19 million per and a huge $7 million buyout on the end. Well, what can you say? It’s the most famous bad contract in baseball right now … but the tide could be shifting a bit. Zito, you probably noticed, is pitching better. He’s 8-10 with a 4.40 ERA, which isn’t exactly Koufax — it’s not even Murray Koufax — but he has pitched better of late, and he has the makings of a crafty lefty, and crafty lefties can sometimes age quite well. Plus he has endured through some bad times. Look, when the Giants made this deal it was very clear that they had completely lost their minds. And no matter what happens, this contract will be known as a masterpiece of excess. But — and admittedly this is just a hunch — Zito might still be a reasonably valuable pitcher for the Giants.

 

2. Jose Guillen (Kansas City Royals). One more year at $12 million. I will admit that I’m grading this one on a curve … the Royals, more than other teams, cannot afford titanic blunders like this one. Everything about this deal baffled from the start. The Royals talked about wanting to get players who get on base — Guillen doesn’t and never has. The Royals talked about wanting players who are leaders — Guillen had played for nine different teams and was suspended for the playoffs by the Angels for inappropriate conduct. The Royals talked about players with good character — Guillen was facing a drug suspension when the Royals signed him (he was given amnesty).

 

But more than anything: Guillen was almost 32 when the Royals signed him to a three-year, $36 million deal … and he’s precisely the sort of player who starts going wildly downhill at that age. And … so he has. Guillen led the team in RBIs in 2008 despite having a pretty bad year. This year, he has been perhaps the worst everyday player in baseball. His power is gone — .371 slugging percentage — he can’t play the outfield any more and his quick bat (the one thing he always had) has slowed measurably. Funny thing is, I have found him to be quite a likable guy, and he has been brutally honest in his own self-assessment. “If I suck then I suck,” he says. “And I suck.” Probably not worth $36 million, but entertaining still.

 

1. Vernon Wells (Toronto Blue Jays). Cot’s Baseball Contracts — the incredibly awesome site where I got these numbers from — is one of my favorite Internet stops. And on occasion, just for fun, I will go to the site just to look up Vernon Wells’ contract. I don’t know why. It gives me hope, somehow. It tells me that in this world, anything is possible. It tells me that good things happen, funny things, unexpected things. Don’t tell me that I won’t win the lottery … just look at Vernon Wells’ contract.

 

In 2011, Vernon Wells will get paid $23 million. No. Really. He will get paid $23 million.

 

In 2012, he will have to take a paycut and will only get $21 million. Same in 2013. And same again in 2014.

 

This isn’t a baseball contract. This is a testament to the power of mankind to do the impossible.

 

Oh, Vernon Wells also has a full no-trade clause in his contract. Well, sure, why not? Then, what difference would it make? This is the most untradable contract in the history of the world. Vernon Wells turns 31 this year. The Dewan has him a minus-29 centerfielder, which means he’s exactly as bad defensively as you can be while a manager who is still breathing allows you to play centerfield. He has an 85 OPS+. He has a lifetime .329 on-base percentage. He’s slugging .408. He IS third in the American League in making outs. So he has that going for him.

 

And it never made sense. Ever. Wells had a very good year in 2003 (and he was a very good fielder then), a couple of OK years, a good year in 2006 at age 27. But he never got on base much, and he was inconsistent, and … then the Blue Jays gave him this hysterical contract.

[inari]

So, Rios has done so badly that it's hard not to take notice. He's hitting .140/.156/.215 with a -6 OPS+ for the Sox.

[RedFlash]

So, Rios has done so badly that it's hard not to take notice. He's hitting .140/.156/.215 with a -6 OPS+ for the Sox.

 

Yeah, the Blue Jays are definately smiling that they no longer are on the hook for THAT contract.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I still cant figure out if the White Sox were trying to block the Tigers and expected The Jays to pull Rios off waivers or if they really wanted him. I mean Dye has been beyond brutal the entire 2nd half and isnt getting any younger, I cant see Pods doing what hes doing again next year, and 2008 Carlos Quentin is inching toward fluke territory, and the Sox have been whinig about not having a legit CF ever since they moved Aaron Rowand, so maybe they really wanted the guy. With Peavy, Buerhle. Danks, and Floyd, they'll have the best pitching in the division, maybe the AL next year, so maybe they'll be a primarily pitching based team, which you dont see much in the AL.