Selig reconsidering Pete Rose

[RedFlash]

If you go to MLB.com and look up the all time hit leaders Pete Rose is listed number 1. Nobody is ignoring his accomplishment. They just aren't honoring him for it and why should they? Pete Rose disgraced and disrespected the game. He only stopped lying about betting on baseball when he wrote a book and wanted to promote it. He is nothing but an opportunist that broke the cardinal rule in baseball. I am perfectly fine with the way things are. Pete Rose is the all time hits leader and is documented as such but he definitely doesn't deserve to be celebrated.

 

Unless Rose betted on baseball as a player, it shouldn't matter what he did as manager. Don't allow him to work in baseball, or make money from baseball, but don't make light of what he did as a player. Yes he's scum (or so was Ty Cobb among others), but being a scum doesn't make him any less of a great ballplayer. The HOF is already a joke with at least 10 to 15 players (if not more) in the HOF is are not legit HOFers, so keeping Pete Rose and for that matter Shoeless Joe Jackson out of the HOF continues to make the HOF illegitimate and a fraud.

[SouthSideRyan]

Rose did bet on the Reds while he was a player-manager.

[circlecitycub]

If you go to MLB.com and look up the all time hit leaders Pete Rose is listed number 1. Nobody is ignoring his accomplishment. They just aren't honoring him for it and why should they? Pete Rose disgraced and disrespected the game. He only stopped lying about betting on baseball when he wrote a book and wanted to promote it. He is nothing but an opportunist that broke the cardinal rule in baseball. I am perfectly fine with the way things are. Pete Rose is the all time hits leader and is documented as such but he definitely doesn't deserve to be celebrated.

 

Unless Rose betted on baseball as a player, it shouldn't matter what he did as manager. Don't allow him to work in baseball, or make money from baseball, but don't make light of what he did as a player. Yes he's scum (or so was Ty Cobb among others), but being a scum doesn't make him any less of a great ballplayer. The HOF is already a joke with at least 10 to 15 players (if not more) in the HOF is are not legit HOFers, so keeping Pete Rose and for that matter Shoeless Joe Jackson out of the HOF continues to make the HOF illegitimate and a fraud.

 

What's the difference if he was a player or a manager? He has far more control over the outcome of the game as a manager. People always say "but he only bet on the Reds to win". That is still compromising the integrity of the game. Ty Cobb has nothing to do with this. It's not about what's right and wrong it's about the integrity of baseball.

[RedFlash]

What's the difference if he was a player or a manager? He has far more control over the outcome of the game as a manager. People always say "but he only bet on the Reds to win". That is still compromising the integrity of the game. Ty Cobb has nothing to do with this. It's not about what's right and wrong it's about the integrity of baseball.

 

If you watched Pete Rose play you wouldn't have to ask that question. Nobody would have questioned Pete Rose on betting on baseball as a player....it was when he was a manager he disrespected the game. Pete Rose, aka Charlie Hustle, is a HOF regardless of what Pete Rose, aka the Gambler did as a manager.

[SouthSideRyan]

Rose did bet on the Reds while he was a player-manager.

[circlecitycub]

What's the difference if he was a player or a manager? He has far more control over the outcome of the game as a manager. People always say "but he only bet on the Reds to win". That is still compromising the integrity of the game. Ty Cobb has nothing to do with this. It's not about what's right and wrong it's about the integrity of baseball.

 

If you watched Pete Rose play you wouldn't have to ask that question. Nobody would have questioned Pete Rose on betting on baseball as a player....it was when he was a manager he disrespected the game. Pete Rose, aka Charlie Hustle, is a HOF regardless of what Pete Rose, aka the Gambler did as a manager.

 

My point is that it doesn't matter if he did it as a player or a manager. He didn't care enough about the game to respect it so why does he deserve to be respected by the game?

[Jehrico]

and then the steriod-era guys, who, unlike Rose, used substances to pad their stats, and it's a huge mess.

I don't see the correlation there. The roid guys aren't banned, and would still have to get voted in. They're separate issues. It would affect Shoeless Joe, but so what.

 

You're right. They're not banned, and I should have clarified:

 

There will be ENDLESS debate in the press about "You let Rose in. Now you have to vote (insert steroid-era great player here) in!"

I don't think that the decision should be based upon how we'll be inundated with ignorant media articles that wrongly link Rose and roiders, regardless of how you feel about Rose.

[Guest]

Rose did bet on the Reds while he was a player-manager.

 

I think he's completely ignoring your posts.

[photoguy9883]

If you go to MLB.com and look up the all time hit leaders Pete Rose is listed number 1. Nobody is ignoring his accomplishment. They just aren't honoring him for it and why should they? Pete Rose disgraced and disrespected the game. He only stopped lying about betting on baseball when he wrote a book and wanted to promote it. He is nothing but an opportunist that broke the cardinal rule in baseball. I am perfectly fine with the way things are. Pete Rose is the all time hits leader and is documented as such but he definitely doesn't deserve to be celebrated.

 

Unless Rose betted on baseball as a player, it shouldn't matter what he did as manager. Don't allow him to work in baseball, or make money from baseball, but don't make light of what he did as a player. Yes he's scum (or so was Ty Cobb among others), but being a scum doesn't make him any less of a great ballplayer. The HOF is already a joke with at least 10 to 15 players (if not more) in the HOF is are not legit HOFers, so keeping Pete Rose and for that matter Shoeless Joe Jackson out of the HOF continues to make the HOF illegitimate and a fraud.

 

How do we know Rose didn't bet on games before he was a manager or player-manager? He lied for years about betting on baseball at all. How do we know he isn't still lying about it?

[fromthestretch]

Illegal substances helped Barry Bonds set the all-time Home Run record. However, betting on baseball did not help Pete Rose attain even one of his 4256 hits.

 

You're right. Betting didn't help him get to over 4000 hits. Playing five years longer than he should have did.

 

The last five years of his career were pretty much a joke offensively, and he collected 559 of his hits during that time. He was also playing primarily first base and corner outfield during that time, positions where you'd actually expect to get some offense.

 

Yes, Pete Rose has the all-time hits record. He also has more games played, plate appearances and at-bats than anyone in the history of the game, which certainly didn't hurt him in his quest for most hits.

 

I agree he probably stuck around longer than he should have. However, lots of the greats have had terrible seasons at the end of their careers: Ruth, Mays, Aaron, and many others stuck around a little too long. However, there isn't a Hall of Fame exception for artificially extending one's career. HOF voters look at the stats first. He had more hits than anyone who ever played. He should be in.

 

OPS+ for the last three years of their respective careers:

 

Ruth: 176, 161, 118

Aaron: 128, 95, 102

Mays: 158, 131, 81

Rose: 99, 99, 61

 

On top of that, Rose posted an OPS+ of 90 and 69 the two years leading up to that. He didn't stick around a little too long. He stuck around WAY too long.

[fromthestretch]

Pete hit .268 his last 5 years. Well below his career average, and other statistics dropped as well, but it's not exactly like he went out like a chump.

 

He only posted an OPS over .700 once in his final five years, and that was a whopping .713. He pretty much had no extra-base power during those seasons, and his OBP was only acceptable in two of those seasons. For a guy who had a career .807 OPS going into the 1982 season, he did kind of go out like a chump.

 

I can understand him playing in 1982. He just came off a season in which he hit .325, so he probably felt like he still had something in the tank. And I guess if teams are going to continue to throw money at you to play, then keep playing. However, he has the most hits because he played five unproductive years at the end of his career to reach that milestone, not because he was hitting at a exceptional rate.

[erik316wttn]

Even if you take away the last 5 years of his career, he still ends up at 3697 hits, which is still the National League record, and still HOF worthy.