Maybe look to Oakland for a middle infielder?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Oakland seems to have a surplus of middle infielders. The problem is, some may or may not be an upgrade over what we have, but as bad as what we have has been, at least as far as second base goes, may as well give it a look see.

 

-Adam Kennedy has been having a nice year with a .291/.353/.444 line, with 7 home runs. Hed be my top target, but if we cant get him we could settle for..

 

-Orlando Cabrera-hes Orlando Cabrera. Hes had some good years, and some bad years. This year, at .262/.299/.343, clearly not doing great, but still he could be worth a try.

 

-And then theres Mark Ellis and Bobby Crosby. Ellis has had some good years, and Beane has shown a lot of man love toward him in the past, but maybe hes ready to move him. Bobby Crosby is similar to Khalil Greene in that hes one of those guys whose shown great potential and you wonder if change of scenery could do him good.

 

-And then theres Nomar.

 

I dont think any of these guys would be too costly in terms of money, but as far as prospects go, you never know when it comes to Beane.

 

I know none of these guys are going to make or break a team, but without the finances for a Sanchez, Uggla, or Cantu, this could be our best non Ray Durham bet.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Little Slide Rooter

[JeffH]

Oakland seems to have a surplus of middle infielders. The problem is, some may or may not be an upgrade over what we have, but as bad as what we have has been, at least as far as second base goes, may as well give it a look see.

 

-Adam Kennedy has been having a nice year with a .291/.353/.444 line, with 7 home runs. Hed be my top target, but if we cant get him we could settle for..

 

-Orlando Hudson-hes Orlando Hudson. Hes had some good years, and some bad years. This year, at .262/.299/.343, clearly not doing great, but still he could be worth a try.

 

-And then theres Mark Ellis and Bobby Crosby. Ellis has had some good years, and Beane has shown a lot of man love toward him in the past, but maybe hes ready to move him. Bobby Crosby is similar to Khalil Greene in that hes one of those guys whose shown great potential and you wonder if change of scenery could do him good.

 

-And then theres Nomar.

 

I dont think any of these guys would be too costly in terms of money, but as far as prospects go, you never know when it comes to Beane.

 

I know none of these guys are going to make or break a team, but without the finances for a Sanchez, Uggla, or Cantu, this could be our best non Ray Durham bet.

 

Cabrera.

[TruffleShuffle]

nomar isn't a middle infielder.

[JimSorgi]

nomar isn't a middle infielder.

I don't think he's even a fielder anymore.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Oakland seems to have a surplus of middle infielders. The problem is, some may or may not be an upgrade over what we have, but as bad as what we have has been, at least as far as second base goes, may as well give it a look see.

 

-Adam Kennedy has been having a nice year with a .291/.353/.444 line, with 7 home runs. Hed be my top target, but if we cant get him we could settle for..

 

-Orlando Hudson-hes Orlando Hudson. Hes had some good years, and some bad years. This year, at .262/.299/.343, clearly not doing great, but still he could be worth a try.

 

-And then theres Mark Ellis and Bobby Crosby. Ellis has had some good years, and Beane has shown a lot of man love toward him in the past, but maybe hes ready to move him. Bobby Crosby is similar to Khalil Greene in that hes one of those guys whose shown great potential and you wonder if change of scenery could do him good.

 

-And then theres Nomar.

 

I dont think any of these guys would be too costly in terms of money, but as far as prospects go, you never know when it comes to Beane.

 

I know none of these guys are going to make or break a team, but without the finances for a Sanchez, Uggla, or Cantu, this could be our best non Ray Durham bet.

 

Cabrera.

 

Yeah, him. Id rather have Hudson, but I dont see the Dodgers moving him.

[manbearcub]

id go for all of them

[17 Seconds]

Oakland seems to have a surplus of middle infielders. The problem is, some may or may not be an upgrade over what we have, but as bad as what we have has been, at least as far as second base goes, may as well give it a look see.

 

-Adam Kennedy has been having a nice year with a .291/.353/.444 line, with 7 home runs. Hed be my top target, but if we cant get him we could settle for..

 

-Orlando Cabrera-hes Orlando Cabrera. Hes had some good years, and some bad years. This year, at .262/.299/.343, clearly not doing great, but still he could be worth a try.

 

-And then theres Mark Ellis and Bobby Crosby. Ellis has had some good years, and Beane has shown a lot of man love toward him in the past, but maybe hes ready to move him. Bobby Crosby is similar to Khalil Greene in that hes one of those guys whose shown great potential and you wonder if change of scenery could do him good.

 

-And then theres Nomar.

 

I dont think any of these guys would be too costly in terms of money, but as far as prospects go, you never know when it comes to Beane.

 

I know none of these guys are going to make or break a team, but without the finances for a Sanchez, Uggla, or Cantu, this could be our best non Ray Durham bet.

 

why do you want to bring in more terrible players? if we got any of those guys you'd be screaming for hendry to get rid of them after they have one bad game anyways.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Oakland seems to have a surplus of middle infielders. The problem is, some may or may not be an upgrade over what we have, but as bad as what we have has been, at least as far as second base goes, may as well give it a look see.

 

-Adam Kennedy has been having a nice year with a .291/.353/.444 line, with 7 home runs. Hed be my top target, but if we cant get him we could settle for..

 

-Orlando Cabrera-hes Orlando Cabrera. Hes had some good years, and some bad years. This year, at .262/.299/.343, clearly not doing great, but still he could be worth a try.

 

-And then theres Mark Ellis and Bobby Crosby. Ellis has had some good years, and Beane has shown a lot of man love toward him in the past, but maybe hes ready to move him. Bobby Crosby is similar to Khalil Greene in that hes one of those guys whose shown great potential and you wonder if change of scenery could do him good.

 

-And then theres Nomar.

 

I dont think any of these guys would be too costly in terms of money, but as far as prospects go, you never know when it comes to Beane.

 

I know none of these guys are going to make or break a team, but without the finances for a Sanchez, Uggla, or Cantu, this could be our best non Ray Durham bet.

 

why do you want to bring in more terrible players? if we got any of those guys you'd be screaming for hendry to get rid of them after they have one bad game anyways.

 

Apparently, you're idea of a terible player is one whose not a superstar. Kennedy and Cabrera are not horrible players. Any manager would love either guy at the 8 spot in their lineup. Both Ellis and Crosby have the potential to be just as bad as Fontenot, Baker, Miles, et al., but they also have a high upside, which Fontenot and Baker have as well, but weve given Fontenot over half a season and Baker is showing no signs that he'll be any better. Everyone says we need a new second baseman, or a shortstop and move Theriot to 2nd, but nobody wants the guys we can afford.

[fromthestretch]

Kennedy and Cabrera are not horrible players. Any manager would love either guy at the 8 spot in their lineup. Both Ellis and Crosby have the potential to be just as bad as Fontenot, Baker, Miles, et al., but they also have a high upside, which Fontenot and Baker have as well, but weve given Fontenot over half a season and Baker is showing no signs that he'll be any better. Everyone says we need a new second baseman, or a shortstop and move Theriot to 2nd, but nobody wants the guys we can afford.

 

2009 OPS+

Fontenot 72

Cabrera 74

Ellis 66

 

Neither is really an upgrade over Fontenot. A Fontenot/Baker platoon should outproduce either of them.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Kennedy and Cabrera are not horrible players. Any manager would love either guy at the 8 spot in their lineup. Both Ellis and Crosby have the potential to be just as bad as Fontenot, Baker, Miles, et al., but they also have a high upside, which Fontenot and Baker have as well, but weve given Fontenot over half a season and Baker is showing no signs that he'll be any better. Everyone says we need a new second baseman, or a shortstop and move Theriot to 2nd, but nobody wants the guys we can afford.

 

2009 OPS+

Fontenot 72

Cabrera 74

Ellis 66

 

Neither is really an upgrade over Fontenot. A Fontenot/Baker platoon should outproduce either of them.

 

You conveniantly left out-Kennedy 115. Maybe we just picked up the wrong Cardinal cast off this off season.

[fromthestretch]

Kennedy and Cabrera are not horrible players. Any manager would love either guy at the 8 spot in their lineup. Both Ellis and Crosby have the potential to be just as bad as Fontenot, Baker, Miles, et al., but they also have a high upside, which Fontenot and Baker have as well, but weve given Fontenot over half a season and Baker is showing no signs that he'll be any better. Everyone says we need a new second baseman, or a shortstop and move Theriot to 2nd, but nobody wants the guys we can afford.

 

2009 OPS+

Fontenot 72

Cabrera 74

Ellis 66

 

Neither is really an upgrade over Fontenot. A Fontenot/Baker platoon should outproduce either of them.

 

You conveniantly left out-Kennedy 115. Maybe we just picked up the wrong Cardinal cast off this off season.

 

Perhaps I wasn't clear, but I was responding to your statement that Ellis and Cabrera "have a high upside". Neither really has a high upside at all at this stage in their careers, especially offensively. And while Kennedy has been playing well, there's nothing in his past three seasons to indicate he'll continue to produce, especially when you look at his last 100 at-bats or so (.664 OPS in his last 142 plate appearances). Furthermore, it's a bit irrational to say "Baker is showing no signs that he'll be any better" when he's had a whopping 16 plate appearances with the Cubs, including quite a few against right-handed pitching.

 

There's a reason "nobody wants the guys we can afford." It's because they suck.

[dew1679666265]

You conveniantly left out-Kennedy 115. Maybe we just picked up the wrong Cardinal cast off this off season.

 

Kennedy might be an option, problem is, we're buying very high on him. He's been a little bit lucky so far this season, meaning his numbers will likely drop off some. He's also been much better this year than he ever has been.

 

I would expect his OPS to settle down into 2004-2005 range (.724-.757) and I think Fontenot can at least come close to that in a platoon with Baker. If Kennedy came cheap enough, he might be an option but he'll probably cost too much in terms of prospects.

 

I'd still rather go for Freddy Sanchez or just go with the Baker/Fontenot platoon.

[SouthSideRyan]

Hey, WSR stop acquiring other teams crap.

 

Thanks.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Hey, WSR stop acquiring other teams crap.

 

Thanks.

 

I knew youd be just around the corner with such a comment.

 

Everyone wants to add players, we dont have the money at this time for a big name, and nobody wants to give up a lot of prospects. Therefore, the options are A. other teams crap B. our own crap.

[Sammy Sofa]

So why waste anything on other team's crap if we already have our own crap?

[dew1679666265]

Hey, WSR stop acquiring other teams crap.

 

Thanks.

 

I knew youd be just around the corner with such a comment.

 

Everyone wants to add players, we dont have the money at this time for a big name, and nobody wants to give up a lot of prospects. Therefore, the options are A. other teams crap B. our own crap.

 

If those are the only options, then B is by far the best option. No reason to give up prospects for guys who aren't very likely to be better than the guys we have.

 

When a GM makes a trade, it should be for a clear upgrade - or someone who can be a clear upgrade - at a position.

[SouthSideRyan]

So why waste anything on other team's crap if we already have our own crap?

 

Because Orlando Cabrera was good 6 years ago.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Hey, WSR stop acquiring other teams crap.

 

Thanks.

 

I knew youd be just around the corner with such a comment.

 

Everyone wants to add players, we dont have the money at this time for a big name, and nobody wants to give up a lot of prospects. Therefore, the options are A. other teams crap B. our own crap.

 

If those are the only options, then B is by far the best option. No reason to give up prospects for guys who aren't very likely to be better than the guys we have.

 

When a GM makes a trade, it should be for a clear upgrade - or someone who can be a clear upgrade - at a position.

 

If we could get Kennedy or Cabrera for cheap, Id be all about it. I think thyed be clear upgrades over ours. They're far from game changers, but both would be very nice in the 7 or 8 spot. Ellis or Crosbly would be iffier, but could worth the risk, again if were not giving up a lot for them.

 

If your crap isnt doing the job and shows no signs of improving, theres at least the glimmer of hope that the new crap will be better for a new team.

[Sammy Sofa]

That's turrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrible, son.

[dew1679666265]

If we could get Kennedy or Cabrera for cheap, Id be all about it. I think thyed be clear upgrades over ours. They're far from game changers, but both would be very nice in the 7 or 8 spot. Ellis or Crosbly would be iffier, but could worth the risk, again if were not giving up a lot for them.

 

If your crap isnt doing the job and shows no signs of improving, theres at least the glimmer of hope that the new crap will be better for a new team.

 

There's no evidence Cabrera would be a clear upgrade over Fontenot alone, much less a Fontenot/Baker platoon. A clear upgrade is a player who is - right now - better, and usually significantly so, than the current player. Cabrera has not been better than Fontenot this year, so he is not a clear upgrade over Fontenot.

 

Why is Cabrera very nice in the 7 or 8 spot in the lineup with a .643 OPS, but Fontenot is not with a .665 OPS? And if there's a glimmer of hope that a 34-year-old Cabrera will be good for us, why is there not a glimmer of hope that a 29-year-old Fontenot will be good the rest of the way?

[Little Slide Rooter]

If we could get Kennedy or Cabrera for cheap, Id be all about it. I think thyed be clear upgrades over ours. They're far from game changers, but both would be very nice in the 7 or 8 spot. Ellis or Crosbly would be iffier, but could worth the risk, again if were not giving up a lot for them.

 

If your crap isnt doing the job and shows no signs of improving, theres at least the glimmer of hope that the new crap will be better for a new team.

 

There's no evidence Cabrera would be a clear upgrade over Fontenot alone, much less a Fontenot/Baker platoon. A clear upgrade is a player who is - right now - better, and usually significantly so, than the current player. Cabrera has not been better than Fontenot this year, so he is not a clear upgrade over Fontenot.

 

Why is Cabrera very nice in the 7 or 8 spot in the lineup with a .643 OPS, but Fontenot is not with a .665 OPS? And if there's a glimmer of hope that a 34-year-old Cabrera will be good for us, why is there not a glimmer of hope that a 29-year-old Fontenot will be good the rest of the way?

 

Its about taking a chance on a guy with a history of major league sucess. Hes usually an OK average guy ranging between the .270s and .280s and has a bit of power which is all most teams can expect from an 8 hitter. Fontenots been given half a season to right himself.

[Sammy Sofa]

You're talking the unremarkable past success of an older player. It would be a waste of prospects. Nobody is going to argue that Fontenot to this point this season has been a huge letdown but he still has a good chance to show much improvement now that he's back at 2nd and if played in a strict platoon with Baker.

[dew1679666265]

Its about taking a chance on a guy with a history of major league sucess. Hes usually an OK average guy ranging between the .270s and .280s and has a bit of power which is all most teams can expect from an 8 hitter. Fontenots been given half a season to right himself.

 

And if he doesn't perform - which is likely - then we've given up prospects for a downgrade from Fontenot.

 

Cabrera has never been that good an offensive player - he's been very similar to Aaron Miles in all honesty. If we could get 2003 production out of him, that might interest me a bit but I'm very confident Fontenot has a better chance of reaching just about every other offensive year Cabrera has posted.

[fromthestretch]

Its about taking a chance on a guy with a history of major league sucess. Hes usually an OK average guy ranging between the .270s and .280s and has a bit of power which is all most teams can expect from an 8 hitter. Fontenots been given half a season to right himself.

 

So have Cabrera and Ellis, albeit with another team. Neither of them is anymore likely to turn things around in the second half than Fontenot is. Also, when you consider past performance, even if either of them does revert back to career norms, it's really not a big enough improvement to justify trading prospects away. Both Cabrera and Ellis are on the wrong side of 30 and are low-.700 OPS guys. A Fontenot/Baker platoon is just as capable (if not moreso) of putting up an OPS over .775 in the second half and wouldn't cost anything to acquire, since they're already on the roster.

[Tarver]

man love

 

UGH. Please let that die