MLBTR: Brewers trying to acquire Javier Vazquez

[Positive Polly]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/brewers-trying-to-deal-for-vazquez.html

The Brewers heard Ryan Braun's plea for help and they have responded. They're attempting to deal for Javier Vazquez, according to ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick. However, Atlanta likely won't part with Vazquez in a deal that doesn't bring back Mat Gamel or Alcides Escobar, a pair of youngsters Brewers GM Doug Melvin has repeatedly deemed untouchable. Buster Olney said this weekend that the Brewers wouldn't be able to acquire Vazquez for Corey Hart alone.

 

The Brewers need pitching and the Braves have rotation depth, as Tim Hudson's expected to return next month. However, Braves GM Frank Wren won't make a deal unless he's "overwhelmed," as Vazquez is a major trade chip in a pitching-thin market. Vazquez makes $11.5MM this year and next and he can't be traded to any Western division team without his permission.

[Little Slide Rooter]

4:35pm: Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel spoke with Brewers GM Doug Melvin and heard that the two teams are not discussing a trade for Vazquez.

 

Melvin needs to realize that if hes going to get any kind of good starter, hes going to have to offer up one of his 2 prized pigs. Other teams know how much the Brewers need pitching, and they're not going to make it that easy. Corey Hart might get them something, but not as much.

[XZero771679666304]

4:35pm: Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel spoke with Brewers GM Doug Melvin and heard that the two teams are not discussing a trade for Vazquez.

 

Melvin needs to realize that if hes going to get any kind of good starter, hes going to have to offer up one of his 2 prized pigs. Other teams know how much the Brewers need pitching, and they're not going to make it that easy. Corey Hart might get them something, but not as much.

 

Hart might have netted them a front end starter a year or two ago, but it's looking like isn't the player many thought he was.

 

Atlanta has all the leverage here, so if I'm Wren I'm asking for Hart and one of Escobar/Gamel.

[radarluv1]

i'm ok with the brewers giving up their top prospects to rent pitching.

[XZero771679666304]

i'm ok with the brewers giving up their top prospects to rent pitching.

 

Me too. Melvin can say what he wants, but he's not getting a difference making pitcher in this market w/o dealing one or both of his untouchables.

 

If I were Melvin, I'd probably dangle Prince and J.J. and try and land a great young starter with years left on his contract. He could then plug in Gamel at first and Escobar at SS. It might not pay off so much this year, but Prince is gone when his contract is up anyway, and they really need the pitching.

 

If he trades one or both of his two real trading chips for a guy like Vazquez, then he isn't doing his job very well.

[dew1679666265]

i'm ok with the brewers giving up their top prospects to rent pitching.

 

Yeah, a Gamel or Escobar trade for Vazquez wouldn't be good for the Brewers.

 

It wouldn't happen, but what about a Fielder for Vazquez trade? Both teams get an impact at their weak spot and the Brewers move Gamel into first base. Probably more of an offseason trade if it was going to happen. Braves could also theoretically throw in a good prospect or two to alleviate the age differential.

[radarluv1]

fielder for jurrjens? if fielder is a FA after this season that would be interesting.

[XZero771679666304]

fielder for jurrjens? if fielder is a FA after this season that would be interesting.

 

Fielder has a couple more years, iirc. I was thinking more of building a package around Prince, Hardy and maybe Hart and trying to pry Halladay from Toronto. If they have any decent pitching prospects I think they'd have a chance.

[BCVM22]

Fielder was given a two-year contract prior to this season.

[SouthSideRyan]

i'm ok with the brewers giving up their top prospects to rent pitching.

 

Yeah, a Gamel or Escobar trade for Vazquez wouldn't be good for the Brewers.

 

It wouldn't happen, but what about a Fielder for Vazquez trade? Both teams get an impact at their weak spot and the Brewers move Gamel into first base. Probably more of an offseason trade if it was going to happen. Braves could also theoretically throw in a good prospect or two to alleviate the age differential.

 

How could you theoretically endorse a Fielder for Vazquez trade but not an Escobar for Vazquez trade? Escobar is hot garbage.

[dew1679666265]

i'm ok with the brewers giving up their top prospects to rent pitching.

 

Yeah, a Gamel or Escobar trade for Vazquez wouldn't be good for the Brewers.

 

It wouldn't happen, but what about a Fielder for Vazquez trade? Both teams get an impact at their weak spot and the Brewers move Gamel into first base. Probably more of an offseason trade if it was going to happen. Braves could also theoretically throw in a good prospect or two to alleviate the age differential.

 

How could you theoretically endorse a Fielder for Vazquez trade but not an Escobar for Vazquez trade? Escobar is hot garbage.

 

A Vazquez for Escobar trade would be better than a Gamel for Vazquez trade. I like Escobar's potential more than you do, though, as his numbers have been improving and he's only 22. The biggest reason for the Fielder trade from the Brewers perspective, though, would be to find a place for Gamel to play (without his defense hurting that much) and freeing themselves of Fielder's stout and soon to be increasing salary.

[jersey cubs fan]

The biggest reason for the Fielder trade from the Brewers perspective, though, would be to find a place for Gamel to play (without his defense hurting that much) and freeing themselves of Fielder's stout and soon to be increasing salary.

 

Do you really solve that issue by trading him for an inconsistent 30-something pitcher due to make $11.5m next year and then become a free agent? If the Cubs were to trade a 25 year old stud hitter who is signed through next season for a soon to be 33 year old pitcher who never really built on his early career success and has been unimpressive in 4 of the past 6 seasons, I'd be pissed.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Id much rather they get Vazquez than this:

 

I see the Phillies and Brewers as the best fits(for Roy Halladay), since they crave pitching, have young talent and play in another league.

[dew1679666265]

The biggest reason for the Fielder trade from the Brewers perspective, though, would be to find a place for Gamel to play (without his defense hurting that much) and freeing themselves of Fielder's stout and soon to be increasing salary.

 

Do you really solve that issue by trading him for an inconsistent 30-something pitcher due to make $11.5m next year and then become a free agent? If the Cubs were to trade a 25 year old stud hitter who is signed through next season for a soon to be 33 year old pitcher who never really built on his early career success and has been unimpressive in 4 of the past 6 seasons, I'd be pissed.

 

Vazquez's K:BB ratio has always been very good, he's a lock to give you 200+ solid innings, the last two seasons he's struck out more than 200 batters and the three years before that he K'd between 150 and 192 and he averages around 1 HR/9.

 

He gets hit a little too hard sometimes, but overall is a very productive pitcher. Maybe not an ace, but his peripherals are very solid. Prince is a very good hitter and only 25, but he's not that good defensively right now (-9.4 UZR/150) and may get worse as he bulks up. He's still more valuable than Vazquez in a one-for-one deal, but that's why I brought up the Braves tossing in a good prospect or two to make up the difference.

[jersey cubs fan]

A prospect or two doesn't really make up the difference between a 25 year old stud hitter and a 33 year old non-stud pitcher.

[dew1679666265]

A prospect or two doesn't really make up the difference between a 25 year old stud hitter and a 33 year old non-stud pitcher.

 

Will the Brewers want/be able to keep Fielder long term? He's making around $10 million right now, that price is going to go up quite a bit the next time he signs a new deal (which will be 2011). Gamel will be cheap for much longer.

 

If the prospects are good enough, then the trade gives the Brewers a very good starter this year and next and two good, young, cheap prospects for the future - plus it gives Gamel a place to play where his defense won't hurt.

[jersey cubs fan]

A prospect or two doesn't really make up the difference between a 25 year old stud hitter and a 33 year old non-stud pitcher.

 

Will the Brewers want/be able to keep Fielder long term? He's making around $10 million right now, that price is going to go up quite a bit the next time he signs a new deal (which will be 2011). Gamel will be cheap for much longer.

 

If the prospects are good enough, then the trade gives the Brewers a very good starter this year and next and two good, young, cheap prospects for the future - plus it gives Gamel a place to play where his defense won't hurt.

 

Well, if they are top notch prospects, sure but the way you presented the deal it seemed more like those would be throw ins than impactful. They could have Fielder for this year and next or Vasquez. Worry about losing Fielder in 2011, trading for Vasquez now doesn't solve the problem.

[dew1679666265]

A prospect or two doesn't really make up the difference between a 25 year old stud hitter and a 33 year old non-stud pitcher.

 

Will the Brewers want/be able to keep Fielder long term? He's making around $10 million right now, that price is going to go up quite a bit the next time he signs a new deal (which will be 2011). Gamel will be cheap for much longer.

 

If the prospects are good enough, then the trade gives the Brewers a very good starter this year and next and two good, young, cheap prospects for the future - plus it gives Gamel a place to play where his defense won't hurt.

 

Well, if they are top notch prospects, sure but the way you presented the deal it seemed more like those would be throw ins than impactful. They could have Fielder for this year and next or Vasquez. Worry about losing Fielder in 2011, trading for Vasquez now doesn't solve the problem.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean elite prospects but still quite good ones. And acquiring Vazquez now does solve a problem - the need for pitching.

 

Vazquez has been very good so far this year and likely will be very good again next year. If they want to win, they'll need a pitcher of that caliber. Giving up Gamel wouldn't be a good idea because of how cheap he'll be for the next few years, but giving up Fielder and getting a couple good prospects in return along with Vazquez might be worth the consideration.

 

I'm thinking prospects in the Jo-Jo Reyes mold more than a Tommy Hanson type. Good, but not top 5 in the system.

[jersey cubs fan]

Vazquez has been very good so far this year and likely will be very good again next year.

 

Why? When was the last time he put together back to back very good seasons? He's an inconsistent soon-to-be 33 year old pitcher who can get hit hard quite frequently.

[dew1679666265]

Vazquez has been very good so far this year and likely will be very good again next year.

 

Why? When was the last time he put together back to back very good seasons? He's an inconsistent soon-to-be 33 year old pitcher who can get hit hard quite frequently.

 

The only thing inconsistent I'm seeing from Vazquez is his ERA. He's had very good K:BB ratios, more than 200 Ks, low HR/9, and high K/9 over the past few seasons.

[jersey cubs fan]

Vazquez has been very good so far this year and likely will be very good again next year.

 

Why? When was the last time he put together back to back very good seasons? He's an inconsistent soon-to-be 33 year old pitcher who can get hit hard quite frequently.

 

The only thing inconsistent I'm seeing from Vazquez is his ERA. He's had very good K:BB ratios, more than 200 Ks, low HR/9, and high K/9 over the past few seasons.

 

And he's very hittable, plus he's 33 already. He's been a nice pitcher, but trading Fielder anywhere close to straight up for him would be a horrible idea. The prospects would have to be very significant to even up that deal of a pre-prime hitter for an aging pitcher, both of them signed through next year, with Vazquez making $1m more.

[dew1679666265]

Vazquez has been very good so far this year and likely will be very good again next year.

 

Why? When was the last time he put together back to back very good seasons? He's an inconsistent soon-to-be 33 year old pitcher who can get hit hard quite frequently.

 

The only thing inconsistent I'm seeing from Vazquez is his ERA. He's had very good K:BB ratios, more than 200 Ks, low HR/9, and high K/9 over the past few seasons.

 

And he's very hittable, plus he's 33 already. He's been a nice pitcher, but trading Fielder anywhere close to straight up for him would be a horrible idea. The prospects would have to be very significant to even up that deal of a pre-prime hitter for an aging pitcher, both of them signed through next year, with Vazquez making $1m more.

 

He's hittable, but he also strikes out a lot of batters and doesn't walk many. The age is an issue especially since he's a power pitcher, but Jo-jo Reyes/Jordan Schafer or Brandon Jones type duo of prospects might make it worthwhile.

[BeerHere]

Vazquez has been very good so far this year and likely will be very good again next year.

 

Why? When was the last time he put together back to back very good seasons? He's an inconsistent soon-to-be 33 year old pitcher who can get hit hard quite frequently.

 

The only thing inconsistent I'm seeing from Vazquez is his ERA. He's had very good K:BB ratios, more than 200 Ks, low HR/9, and high K/9 over the past few seasons.

 

And he's very hittable, plus he's 33 already. He's been a nice pitcher, but trading Fielder anywhere close to straight up for him would be a horrible idea.

Which is why I'm 100% behind this trade idea.

[Ball And Glove]

I wouldn't be opposed to trading Hart plus a decent-ish prospect (I'd suggest maybe Angel Salome, but they're already set at catcher) for Vazquez, but two problems would arise from that:

 

- The Brewers would be effectively left with Jody Gerut or Frank Catalanotto getting extensive ABs out of right field. While Hart has been anything but consistent this year, he's still better than either of those options.

- Due to Vazquez's 2010 salary, they would almost have to trade J.J. Hardy in the offseason in order to make room for him. The budget is set so that they could possibly take the remainder of this year's salary without too much of a problem, but if they're going to pay the full salary in 2010, they need to create room, and no one is going to take Bill Hall off their hands. Instead of hanging onto Hardy and letting Escobar get more ABs at AAA, they'd more or less be forced into starting Escobar at short next year, for better or worse.

 

Considering how badly the Braves have been wanting to get rid of Frenchy, I guess you could expand the deal to Vazquez and Francoeur for Hart, a decent-ish prospect, and a throw in, but I'd rather see the Brewers give someone in AAA (like Katin) a chance over a lost cause like Francoeur.

[SouthSideRyan]

Francouer doesn't make enough money for the Braves to need to dump him to get a lesser return in a trade.