Vitters & Carpenter to Daytona; Cashner to Tennessee

[CUBZ99]

Thanks to TT:

 

Carrie Muskat[/url]"]Josh Vitters is moving up. Vitters will join Class A Daytona on Tuesday. He had been playing for Class A Peoria, and was batting .316 with 15 homers and 46 RBIs in 70 games. The third baseman, who was the Cubs' No. 1 pick in 2007, will compete in the All-Star Futures Game for the U.S. team as well.

 

That seems weird to me. His season has been slow start, extremely hot May, very bad June with one nice weekend at the end. Why not try and see if the guy can establish some sort of consistency? Are they thinking he's like the bored genius in school who struggles because he's not challenged and doesn't try?

 

This has the signs of overaggressive Cubs promotions. A good half season in FSL means he'll almost certainly start 2010 in AA, and once that happens the pressure to call him up to the bigs will be large.

 

I don't have a problem with his promotion. If he wouldn't have had the health issues it is likely he would have started the year in Daytona this year anyways, and the consensus from most of the scouting reports indicate that his bat is A+ ready now.

[sporrer17]

No problem with pushing guys (especially highly talented ones like Vitters) now and then. Usually the Cubs are pretty laid back and let the players earn their promotions. I think Vitters earned his, but the timing seems a bit odd. My guess is they wanted to let him play in the all-star game and get back on a good streak before making the move.

[JeffH]

Thanks to TT:

 

Carrie Muskat[/url]"]Josh Vitters is moving up. Vitters will join Class A Daytona on Tuesday. He had been playing for Class A Peoria, and was batting .316 with 15 homers and 46 RBIs in 70 games. The third baseman, who was the Cubs' No. 1 pick in 2007, will compete in the All-Star Futures Game for the U.S. team as well.

 

That seems weird to me. His season has been slow start, extremely hot May, very bad June with one nice weekend at the end. Why not try and see if the guy can establish some sort of consistency? Are they thinking he's like the bored genius in school who struggles because he's not challenged and doesn't try?

 

This has the signs of overaggressive Cubs promotions. A good half season in FSL means he'll almost certainly start 2010 in AA, and once that happens the pressure to call him up to the bigs will be large.

 

I'm against the promotion, but, if called up under fan/media pressure, where would Vitters play? Assuming Aramis' separated shoulder doesn't render him useless.

[Guest]

All moves thus far - Fitzgerald and his nearly .600 BA in Mesa is the first 09 draftee to make it to full season ball:

 

RHP Chris Carpenter from Peoria to Daytona.

RHP Andrew Cashner from Daytona to Tennessee.

1B Ryan Keedy Released.

3B Josh Vitters from Peoria to Daytona.

2B/SS Nathan Samson from Daytona to Tennessee.

SS Darwin Barney from Tennessee to Iowa.

1B John Contreras from Boise to Daytona.

2B DJ Fitzgerald from Mesa to Peoria.

[sporrer17]

Thanks to TT:

 

Carrie Muskat[/url]"]Josh Vitters is moving up. Vitters will join Class A Daytona on Tuesday. He had been playing for Class A Peoria, and was batting .316 with 15 homers and 46 RBIs in 70 games. The third baseman, who was the Cubs' No. 1 pick in 2007, will compete in the All-Star Futures Game for the U.S. team as well.

 

That seems weird to me. His season has been slow start, extremely hot May, very bad June with one nice weekend at the end. Why not try and see if the guy can establish some sort of consistency? Are they thinking he's like the bored genius in school who struggles because he's not challenged and doesn't try?

 

This has the signs of overaggressive Cubs promotions. A good half season in FSL means he'll almost certainly start 2010 in AA, and once that happens the pressure to call him up to the bigs will be large.

 

I'm against the promotion, but, if called up under fan/media pressure, where would Vitters play? Assuming Aramis' separated shoulder doesn't render him useless.

 

Unless he starts next season at AA and hits extremely well, I can't see him being an option next year. He's a very good player, but he's only 19. Next year he'll be 20 still. I'd say he could be an option to start '11, maybe with Ramirez moving to 1b for Lee, who I believe is a FA after next season. We've had quite a bit of roster turnover the past few seasons, so who knows.

[jersey cubs fan]

Thanks to TT:

 

Carrie Muskat[/url]"]Josh Vitters is moving up. Vitters will join Class A Daytona on Tuesday. He had been playing for Class A Peoria, and was batting .316 with 15 homers and 46 RBIs in 70 games. The third baseman, who was the Cubs' No. 1 pick in 2007, will compete in the All-Star Futures Game for the U.S. team as well.

 

That seems weird to me. His season has been slow start, extremely hot May, very bad June with one nice weekend at the end. Why not try and see if the guy can establish some sort of consistency? Are they thinking he's like the bored genius in school who struggles because he's not challenged and doesn't try?

 

This has the signs of overaggressive Cubs promotions. A good half season in FSL means he'll almost certainly start 2010 in AA, and once that happens the pressure to call him up to the bigs will be large.

 

I'm against the promotion, but, if called up under fan/media pressure, where would Vitters play? Assuming Aramis' separated shoulder doesn't render him useless.

 

Well I'm talking about next year. You can assume Ramirez will miss time. You can also safely assume they will get disappointing production from one of their corner players. If he starts in AA, he will be considered a phone call away. I don't want him anywhere near Wrigley in 2010 and probalby not 2011 either. He's still got lots to work on and hasn't exactly dominated at short season A ball or low A. It's these aggressive promotions that lead to things like Ronny Cedeno needing to be dumped, guys running out of options as 24 year old, etc.

[jame.gumb]

He's still got lots to work on and hasn't exactly dominated at short season A ball or low A. It's these aggressive promotions that lead to things like Ronny Cedeno needing to be dumped, guys running out of options as 24 year old, etc.

 

He has a lot to work on, but he's fifth in the MWL in OPS and second in SLG at 19. What more did he have to do to dominate the level?

[CubsWin]

My guess is that Cashner's history as a reliever is why they're being very cautious with his workload. If his future is in the pen, then he's still getting his regular innings as it stands now. If he's being groomed as a starter, then he gets to extend himself every 5 days without a huge jump in innings that would leave him susceptible to injury.

This one. My thoughts exactly.

[jersey cubs fan]

He's still got lots to work on and hasn't exactly dominated at short season A ball or low A. It's these aggressive promotions that lead to things like Ronny Cedeno needing to be dumped, guys running out of options as 24 year old, etc.

 

He has a lot to work on, but he's fifth in the MWL in OPS and second in SLG at 19. What more did he have to do to dominate the level?

 

How about be first? He sucked in June, so I really don't see how he could be considered to have dominated the level. Had he maintained that May, or even just performed well in June, then yes you could talk of domination. But one month of high numbers over three months of a season is not domination.

[jame.gumb]

He's still got lots to work on and hasn't exactly dominated at short season A ball or low A. It's these aggressive promotions that lead to things like Ronny Cedeno needing to be dumped, guys running out of options as 24 year old, etc.

 

He has a lot to work on, but he's fifth in the MWL in OPS and second in SLG at 19. What more did he have to do to dominate the level?

 

How about be first? He sucked in June, so I really don't see how he could be considered to have dominated the level. Had he maintained that May, or even just performed well in June, then yes you could talk of domination. But one month of high numbers over three months of a season is not domination.

 

OK then. Apparently we just have different definitions of dominating. In mine, you don't have to be first, just among the best.

 

Going by your definition, Vitters was dominating the MWL for a month, leading the league in SLG. So he has dominated the league.

 

To elaborate further, when would you promote a prospect if, by what I'm inferring from your post, you have to be THE best player in a league?

[jersey cubs fan]

OK then. Apparently we just have different definitions of dominating. In mine, you don't have to be first, just among the best.

 

Going by your definition, Vitters was dominating the MWL for a month, leading the league in SLG. So he has dominated the league.

 

To elaborate further, when would you promote a prospect if, by what I'm inferring from your post, you have to be THE best player in a league?

 

You don't have to be the best to get a promotion, but you should earn it by more than one month of a great play. I'm of the opinion that Vitters should have stayed in the MWL all year long unless he proved he was so far ahead of the competition that it was doing him a disservice to stay. Clearly that is not the case. He's young, he's inconsistent, and he's yet to dominate either of the two low level leagues he has played in.

 

You don't OPS sub 700 for a month and then get promoted based on your "dominance". I'd rather see them treat him like the Mets did with David Wright, who played his entire age 19 season in low A, then his entire age 20 season in the FSL. I'm just afraid that bumping him up to high A at 19 is going to increase the likelihood that starts next year in AA and gets put on the fast track to Wrigley because this team's decision makers are so desperate to win now so they can keep their jobs that they'd feel pressure to call him up to the bigs at some point next season.

[jame.gumb]

OK then. Apparently we just have different definitions of dominating. In mine, you don't have to be first, just among the best.

 

Going by your definition, Vitters was dominating the MWL for a month, leading the league in SLG. So he has dominated the league.

 

To elaborate further, when would you promote a prospect if, by what I'm inferring from your post, you have to be THE best player in a league?

 

You don't have to be the best to get a promotion, but you should earn it by more than one month of a great play. I'm of the opinion that Vitters should have stayed in the MWL all year long unless he proved he was so far ahead of the competition that it was doing him a disservice to stay. Clearly that is not the case. He's young, he's inconsistent, and he's yet to dominate either of the two low level leagues he has played in.

 

You don't OPS sub 700 for a month and then get promoted based on your "dominance". I'd rather see them treat him like the Mets did with David Wright, who played his entire age 19 season in low A, then his entire age 20 season in the FSL. I'm just afraid that bumping him up to high A at 19 is going to increase the likelihood that starts next year in AA and gets put on the fast track to Wrigley because this team's decision makers are so desperate to win now so they can keep their jobs that they'd feel pressure to call him up to the bigs at some point next season.

 

That's a valid concern, but he's shown he can hit MWL pitching, imo. What he needs to show is that he can distinguish between a ball and a strike against better pitching.

 

Also, to be fair, I think he would have been at Peoria all year last year if he hadn't sustained an injury and started at Daytona this year. My guess is that the Cubs brass thought Vitters was pretty much ready for Daytona at the beginning of the year. Hitters tend to have down years at Daytona, iirc, so it makes sense to me that they wanted him to see that he could hit in full-season ball before they unleashed him in A+.

[KaiserCesar]

OK then. Apparently we just have different definitions of dominating. In mine, you don't have to be first, just among the best.

 

Going by your definition, Vitters was dominating the MWL for a month, leading the league in SLG. So he has dominated the league.

 

To elaborate further, when would you promote a prospect if, by what I'm inferring from your post, you have to be THE best player in a league?

 

You don't have to be the best to get a promotion, but you should earn it by more than one month of a great play. I'm of the opinion that Vitters should have stayed in the MWL all year long unless he proved he was so far ahead of the competition that it was doing him a disservice to stay. Clearly that is not the case. He's young, he's inconsistent, and he's yet to dominate either of the two low level leagues he has played in.

 

You don't OPS sub 700 for a month and then get promoted based on your "dominance". I'd rather see them treat him like the Mets did with David Wright, who played his entire age 19 season in low A, then his entire age 20 season in the FSL. I'm just afraid that bumping him up to high A at 19 is going to increase the likelihood that starts next year in AA and gets put on the fast track to Wrigley because this team's decision makers are so desperate to win now so they can keep their jobs that they'd feel pressure to call him up to the bigs at some point next season.

 

Vitters in Peoria .316/.351/.535

Wright at Columbia .266/.367/.401

 

Vitters also has a good season in Boise on his resume and appears to have shown his power a bit earlier than Wright. They are clearly different players and their situations aren't quite analogous either.

[Guest]

That's a valid concern, but he's shown he can hit MWL pitching, imo. What he needs to show is that he can distinguish between a ball and a strike against better pitching.

 

I think it's more nuanced than that. Vitters needs to show that he can distinguish between strikes/pitches that he can hit well and strikes/pitches that he cannot. Vlad Guerrero types that pan out at the big league level are very rare.

[jame.gumb]

That's a valid concern, but he's shown he can hit MWL pitching, imo. What he needs to show is that he can distinguish between a ball and a strike against better pitching.

 

I think it's more nuanced than that. Vitters needs to show that he can distinguish between strikes/pitches that he can hit well and strikes/pitches that he cannot. Vlad Guerrero types that pan out at the big league level are very rare.

 

Maybe it's as simple as he has to learn to distinguish between pitches he can hit well that are strikes versus pitches he thinks he can hit well that aren't. I've never faced MWL or FSL pitching, but I'd imagine he's going to start seeing more pitches that look like strikes before they disappear. In other words, maybe this problem will work itself out as he sees more advanced pitching and decides he can't hit everything near the zone.

[falcon]

I think Onieri Fleita has a screw loose or the heat is getting to him. He released a proven hitter, Sean Hoorelbeke from Boise after getting him a whopping 16 at bats. The guy batted .322 last summer in 58 games with a .938 OPS. IN turn, he promotes an unproven NDFA John Contreras to Daytona. Go figure ?????? Another good player we drafted out of college, Ryan Keedy got released yesterday from Daytona. Another college player, Kurt Calvert, quit in spring training after being told he was down the promotion list.Why even draft college players if your not going to play them everyday for a couple of seasons to see if they develop into prospects? It seems that if you're a NDFA from Venezuela or the Dominican Republic, the Cubs minor league system is taylored for you.I sure hope that Hoorelbeke, Keedy, and the other college players they cut can sign with organizations that will give them a better chance to show the obvious skills that got them drafted in the first place. :banghead: :banghead:

[Guest]

They cut Hoorelbeke too? Wow.

[Outshined_One]

They cut Hoorelbeke too? Wow.

 

He's no longer listed on Boise's roster. Looks like they moved up Matt Williams and Corey Martin from the AZ League.

[cubweiser03]

Vitters is the guy id like to see firsthand the most. Id like to see his strikezone coverage and also what kind of contact he makes with pitches outside the zone. Normally i like to see the pitchers the most to gauge their stuff but Vitters is an exception for me.

[Tony Thomas]

Fitzgerald is now on the Peoria roster, so I guess he was promoted.

[Guest]

Fitzgerald is now on the Peoria roster, so I guess he was promoted.

 

Correct, it was in the Peoria press release from last night about Carpenter and Vitters being promoted.

[falcon]

I think Onieri Fleita has a screw loose or the heat is getting to him. He released a proven hitter, Sean Hoorelbeke from Boise after getting him a whopping 16 at bats. The guy batted .322 last summer in 58 games with a .938 OPS. IN turn, he promotes an unproven NDFA John Contreras to Daytona. Go figure ?????? Another good player we drafted out of college, Ryan Keedy got released yesterday from Daytona. Another college player, Kurt Calvert, quit in spring training after being told he was down the promotion list.Why even draft college players if your not going to play them everyday for a couple of seasons to see if they develop into prospects? It seems that if you're a NDFA from Venezuela or the Dominican Republic, the Cubs minor league system is taylored for you.I sure hope that Hoorelbeke, Keedy, and the other college players they cut can sign with organizations that will give them a better chance to show the obvious skills that got them drafted in the first place. :banghead: :banghead:

Don't know the real reasons these guys got their pink slips but it could be because they're both 24 years old (wow,that's really old! )

[sporrer17]

Keedy had a .540 OPS with 0 HRs, 0 SBs, and a 24/9 K/BB ratio in 89 ABs as a 23 year old in Daytona. And the fact that Hoorelbeke was 24 and back in Boise was telling enough for me.

[squally1313]

That's a valid concern, but he's shown he can hit MWL pitching, imo. What he needs to show is that he can distinguish between a ball and a strike against better pitching.

 

I think it's more nuanced than that. Vitters needs to show that he can distinguish between strikes/pitches that he can hit well and strikes/pitches that he cannot. Vlad Guerrero types that pan out at the big league level are very rare.

 

And to elaborate further on that, why didn't Vitters have to show that he can distinguish between a ball and a strike against lesser pitching (ie, the pitching he faced in Peoria)? Is that a skill that becomes easier to acquire against harder pitching? I don't see any reason to rush him. If it was their intention to promote him midseason, I don't understand how they looked at his numbers a month ago, after he tore up May, and thought he needed more at bats, then watched his last month of sub700 OPS and realized that he was ready now.

[sporrer17]

I still think it had more to do with getting the all-star games out of the way before the promotions were made (although for Barney at AA, he's going to miss his I believe)