06/23 CUBS (Zambrano) @ Detroit (Jackson) 6:05 CDT, WGN TV

[UMFan83]

Meanwhile the Cards are up 3-0 on the skeletal remains of what was once the Mets.

 

Dont' worry, they'll be back to full strength just in time to play us.

Guess that would even us up for not playing the Rockies when they were playing well.

[dew1679666265]

Closers blow games. Bad closers blow games more often than good ones. Gregg is a bad closer. Can't get mad at Gregg...you know what you are getting from him at this point. He's gonna either walk one batter or take them to at least 3 balls in every appearance, and he tends to miss his spots quite often. Counting on Kevin Gregg to close is basically not a healthy way to be a competitive ballclub.

 

That said, I can't see a better option than him on the team...maybe Guzman but he's disabled right now.

 

Gregg isn't a bad closer. He's an average or so closer.

[illiniguy]

Thing is, Woody's been just as horrible.

 

I guess we were destined to experience a crapfest at closer this year, no matter what.

 

Yeah but Wood was pitching in the National League his whole career, he is adjusting to a new, and more superior league this year. Ignore the games against the Cubs, there was emotional stuff going on right there.

 

Imagine if the Cubs didn't come back in those 3 games last week, we'd be looking at having lost 10 of our last 12 games.

This is a game you have to get. And we gave it away. I wish Kevin Gregg would get DFAd.

[illiniguy]

Meanwhile the Cards are up 3-0 on the skeletal remains of what was once the Mets.

 

Dont' worry, they'll be back to full strength just in time to play us.

Guess that would even us up for not playing the Rockies when they were playing well.

What's our break even for them getting 6 with the Royals every year?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Thing is, Woody's been just as horrible.

 

I guess we were destined to experience a crapfest at closer this year, no matter what.

 

Yeah but Wood was pitching in the National League his whole career, he is adjusting to a new, and more superior league this year. Ignore the games against the Cubs, there was emotional stuff going on right there.

 

Imagine if the Cubs didn't come back in those 3 games last week, we'd be looking at having lost 10 of our last 12 games.

This is a game you have to get. And we gave it away. I wish Kevin Gregg would get DFAd.

 

I wish hed be beaten senseless by a pissed off Z.

[UMFan83]

Thing is, Woody's been just as horrible.

 

I guess we were destined to experience a crapfest at closer this year, no matter what.

 

Yeah but Wood was pitching in the National League his whole career, he is adjusting to a new, and more superior league this year. Ignore the games against the Cubs, there was emotional stuff going on right there.

 

Imagine if the Cubs didn't come back in those 3 games last week, we'd be looking at having lost 10 of our last 12 games.

This is a game you have to get. And we gave it away. I wish Kevin Gregg would get DFAd.

 

I agree this is a game we had to get, and I agree we gave it away. But unfortunately this is a game that is lost because our bullpen, more specifically the closer, simply isn't as talented as it was last year. That's on Hendry above anyone else.

 

This loss made me upset a bit, but not as upset as some of those crappy offensive performances did. With those games, you know the offense should be better and is playing under potential. This game was simply lost because we aren't talented enough in certain departments. If we don't improve in those areas, we're not good enough to make the playoffs anyway and this game is a moot point.

[UMFan83]

Meanwhile the Cards are up 3-0 on the skeletal remains of what was once the Mets.

 

Dont' worry, they'll be back to full strength just in time to play us.

Guess that would even us up for not playing the Rockies when they were playing well.

What's our break even for them getting 6 with the Royals every year?

 

Theres none...thats a complete screw job. I was looking the other day, this year the Cardinals took 5/6, outscoring Kansas City 41-13 (I think) in the process. Wow.

[UMFan83]

Thing is, Woody's been just as horrible.

 

I guess we were destined to experience a crapfest at closer this year, no matter what.

 

Yeah but Wood was pitching in the National League his whole career, he is adjusting to a new, and more superior league this year. Ignore the games against the Cubs, there was emotional stuff going on right there.

 

Imagine if the Cubs didn't come back in those 3 games last week, we'd be looking at having lost 10 of our last 12 games.

This is a game you have to get. And we gave it away. I wish Kevin Gregg would get DFAd.

 

I wish hed be beaten senseless by a pissed off Z.

 

Why beat up Gregg. It's not like he's some awesome pitcher that didn't do his job. He's a below average pitcher who is forced into the bullpen role because he's the best of a bunch of junk.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Im not making any excuses for Gregg, but his perfomance ultimatly came down to 1 bad pitch, while the offense was squandering opportunities all night, and last night as well.

[Soul]

Thing is, Woody's been just as horrible.

 

I guess we were destined to experience a crapfest at closer this year, no matter what.

 

Yeah but Wood was pitching in the National League his whole career, he is adjusting to a new, and more superior league this year. Ignore the games against the Cubs, there was emotional stuff going on right there.

 

Imagine if the Cubs didn't come back in those 3 games last week, we'd be looking at having lost 10 of our last 12 games.

 

Woody's been bad pretty much the whole time. Not every AL team is good you know.

 

I asked an Indians fan what he thought about Wood after watching him blow those two games against us. He said "same thing we've thought about him since he's gotten here."

 

It's not all explainable by the league change. Woody's having a bad year, it's not something that can simply be excused.

[UMFan83]

Im not making any excuses for Gregg, but his perfomance ultimatly came down to 1 bad pitch, while the offense was squandering opportunities all night, and last night as well.

 

The offense was ok today. At least they have the excuse that they were facing mostly good pitching. I've never heard of the guy that homered off Gregg.

[Soul]

Stop making excuses for Gregg. That was a meatball crappy curve, like the 10th in a row, to a no-name hitter even the Tigers announcers were bemoaning had to hit.

 

Gregg was total and complete crap tonight. And he's been that way too often this season. He's junk. Period.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Im not making any excuses for Gregg, but his perfomance ultimatly came down to 1 bad pitch, while the offense was squandering opportunities all night, and last night as well.

 

The offense was ok today. At least they have the excuse that they were facing mostly good pitching. I've never heard of the guy that homered off Gregg.

 

And how many Tigers fans have heard of Micah Hoffpauir?

[Soul]

Im not making any excuses for Gregg, but his perfomance ultimatly came down to 1 bad pitch, while the offense was squandering opportunities all night, and last night as well.

 

The offense was ok today. At least they have the excuse that they were facing mostly good pitching. I've never heard of the guy that homered off Gregg.

 

And how many Tigers fans have heard of Micah Hoffpauir?

 

 

yeah, I was just thinking that.

 

Screw it.

 

The only reason we even had the lead is because Zumaya inexplicably decided to throw a crappy offspeed pitch to Micah, when it was clear he couldn't catch up to his fastball.

[erik316wttn]

Why is it always the no-name loser scrubs that kill us? Some guy named Luis Valbuena hit 600 home runs off of us in the Indians series, and now this joker hits a walk-off.

 

Game thread will be up before 11 am.

[Guest]

And it wasn't even a cheap HR that was pulled right down the line.

 

That guy hit the crap out of the ball.

[Cubbie Swagger]

Closers blow games. Bad closers blow games more often than good ones. Gregg is a bad closer. Can't get mad at Gregg...you know what you are getting from him at this point. He's gonna either walk one batter or take them to at least 3 balls in every appearance, and he tends to miss his spots quite often. Counting on Kevin Gregg to close is basically not a healthy way to be a competitive ballclub.

 

That said, I can't see a better option than him on the team...maybe Guzman but he's disabled right now.

 

Gregg isn't a bad closer. He's an average or so closer.

Then I pose this question to you... who IS a bad closer?

[Andy]

Closers blow games. Bad closers blow games more often than good ones. Gregg is a bad closer. Can't get mad at Gregg...you know what you are getting from him at this point. He's gonna either walk one batter or take them to at least 3 balls in every appearance, and he tends to miss his spots quite often. Counting on Kevin Gregg to close is basically not a healthy way to be a competitive ballclub.

 

That said, I can't see a better option than him on the team...maybe Guzman but he's disabled right now.

 

Gregg isn't a bad closer. He's an average or so closer.

Then I pose this question to you... who IS a bad closer?

Me. You. Others on NSBB.

 

Gregg sucks. His ERA is 3.66, mediocre at best for a closer, his WHIP is higher than it's been in either of his prior two seasons closing in Florida, his H/9 is a ridiculous 8.4, his HR/9 is a career high 1.4 right now. (All those stats are entering the game tonight.)

[dew1679666265]

Closers blow games. Bad closers blow games more often than good ones. Gregg is a bad closer. Can't get mad at Gregg...you know what you are getting from him at this point. He's gonna either walk one batter or take them to at least 3 balls in every appearance, and he tends to miss his spots quite often. Counting on Kevin Gregg to close is basically not a healthy way to be a competitive ballclub.

 

That said, I can't see a better option than him on the team...maybe Guzman but he's disabled right now.

 

Gregg isn't a bad closer. He's an average or so closer.

Then I pose this question to you... who IS a bad closer?

 

Guys with bad stats in that role. I can't call someone with good to decent stats a bad player. It just doesn't make sense.

 

Mel Rojas was a bad closer for the Cubs, as was Alfonseca. Gregg is much better than either of those two.

[jersey cubs fan]

Mel Rojas was a bad closer for the Cubs, as was Alfonseca. Gregg is much better than either of those two.

 

Really? 30 year old Antonio Alfonseca threw 74 1/3 inning for the 2000 Chicago Cubs with a

4.00 ERA, 1.466 WHIP, 61 K, 36 BB and allowed 5 HR. Kevin Gregg is much better than that? Gregg is essentially what Alfonseca was before coming to the Cubs. A wholly unimpressive relief pitcher who had the fortune of being used at the end of games for the Marlins, thus earning the tag "proven closer" and therefore being a justifiable choice to finish games for the Cubs. Mel Rojas was actually a bit more effective reliever earlier in his career who had one partial season with the Cubs that was fairly similar to what Kevin Gregg has done in his partial season with the Cubs.

 

Kevin Gregg is not "much better" than either guy, he might not even be any better. And if either guy is an indication, his unimpressive career is likely going to be imploding soon.

[dew1679666265]

Mel Rojas was a bad closer for the Cubs, as was Alfonseca. Gregg is much better than either of those two.

 

Really? 30 year old Antonio Alfonseca threw 74 1/3 inning for the 2000 Chicago Cubs with a

4.00 ERA, 1.466 WHIP, 61 K, 36 BB and allowed 5 HR. Kevin Gregg is much better than that? Gregg is essentially what Alfonseca was before coming to the Cubs. A wholly unimpressive relief pitcher who had the fortune of being used at the end of games for the Marlins, thus earning the tag "proven closer" and therefore being a justifiable choice to finish games for the Cubs. Mel Rojas was actually a bit more effective reliever earlier in his career who had one partial season with the Cubs that was fairly similar to what Kevin Gregg has done in his partial season with the Cubs.

 

Kevin Gregg is not "much better" than either guy, he might not even be any better. And if either guy is an indication, his unimpressive career is likely going to be imploding soon.

 

Gregg put up in the last two seasons better numbers than Alf. Until last night's blown save, his numbers this year were better as well. He's also saved a better percentage of his chances than Alf did as a Cub. Much better may be overstating it, but Gregg is a better closer than Alfonseca. Rojas was also worse in his time as a Cub than Gregg has been as a closer.

[jersey cubs fan]

Mel Rojas was a bad closer for the Cubs, as was Alfonseca. Gregg is much better than either of those two.

 

Really? 30 year old Antonio Alfonseca threw 74 1/3 inning for the 2000 Chicago Cubs with a

4.00 ERA, 1.466 WHIP, 61 K, 36 BB and allowed 5 HR. Kevin Gregg is much better than that? Gregg is essentially what Alfonseca was before coming to the Cubs. A wholly unimpressive relief pitcher who had the fortune of being used at the end of games for the Marlins, thus earning the tag "proven closer" and therefore being a justifiable choice to finish games for the Cubs. Mel Rojas was actually a bit more effective reliever earlier in his career who had one partial season with the Cubs that was fairly similar to what Kevin Gregg has done in his partial season with the Cubs.

 

Kevin Gregg is not "much better" than either guy, he might not even be any better. And if either guy is an indication, his unimpressive career is likely going to be imploding soon.

 

Gregg put up in the last two seasons better numbers than Alf. Until last night's blown save, his numbers this year were better as well. He's also saved a better percentage of his chances than Alf did as a Cub. Much better may be overstating it, but Gregg is a better closer than Alfonseca. Rojas was also worse in his time as a Cub than Gregg has been as a closer.

 

Sorry, but you're wrong. You can't just erase his bad outings and then say 'see he's better'. He's the same uinmpressive relief pitcher who is overcompensated because he was a closer. And how do you justify defining Gregg by his last two years but limiting those guys to only their time with the Cubs? Gregg's the same freaking guy. He lets too many guys get on base, gives up too many runs. Maybe the Cubs can get by with that by surrounding him with a better team than those guys had when they were Cubs, but he's not much better than either, if any better.

[dew1679666265]

Sorry, but you're wrong. You can't just erase his bad outings and then say 'see he's better'. He's the same uinmpressive relief pitcher who is overcompensated because he was a closer. And how do you justify defining Gregg by his last two years but limiting those guys to only their time with the Cubs? Gregg's the same freaking guy. He lets too many guys get on base, gives up too many runs. Maybe the Cubs can get by with that by surrounding him with a better team than those guys had when they were Cubs, but he's not much better than either, if any better.

 

I'm not eliminating any bad outings. I'm pointing out that looking only at this season is using a very small sample size. One bad outing (last night) dropped his numbers considerably.

 

The reason I'm looking at the past two years for Gregg is because they were (mostly) full seasons. And the reason I'm looking at the Cubs tenure of Rojas and Alf is because I was pointing out they were bad closers during their Cubs tenure. Gregg has not been a bad closer throughout career. He hasn't been particularly good this season, but at least part of that is because of a horrible start to the year. For the past month he's been terrific, though, so there's reason to believe he'll be better the rest of the way than his start to the season. If he is, this year's numbers will be much better than what Alf and Rojas did as Cubs. If not, then he'll have been a bad closer for the Cubs as well.

 

Looking at the past two seasons, it's likely Gregg's numbers will improve and his overall numbers will look pretty average (like they have the past two years) by the end of the season. That's the point I'm trying to make.