Hitting Struggles

THISisTHEyear09 · May 23, 2009

Since the Cubs are struggling to score runs (scored 2 runs in their last four games) maybe we should changes in the order?

1. Soriano 2B

2. Theriot SS

3. Fukodome CF

4. Bradley RF

5. Hoffpauir LF

6. J. Fox 1B

7. Soto C

8. Fontenot 3B

Also our starting pitching isnt so bad so why not get a solid bat in a trade insted of Peavy?

Backtobanks · May 23, 2009

Since the Cubs are struggling to score runs (scored 2 runs in their last four games) maybe we should changes in the order?

1. Soriano 2B
2. Theriot SS
3. Fukodome CF
4. Bradley RF
5. Hoffpauir LF
6. J. Fox 1B
7. Soto C
8. Fontenot 3B

Also our starting pitching isnt so bad so why not get a solid bat in a trade insted of Peavy?

This has been discussed in the topic "Soriano could play 2B". The obvious problem is that this lineup might give up as many runs defensively as they generate offensively. Hopefully they will call up Fox to DH during interleague play.

rawaction · May 23, 2009

So, basically the only changes are Fox for Derrek Lee and Hoffpauir everyday instead of Scales/Miles/Freel.

It's funny that everyone is in such a hurry to get Lee out of the lineup, but are perfectly fine with Fontenot, Bradley, and Soto....who have all been FAR worse than Lee this season. Not too mention the continued hope that two 4A players in their late 20s will come in and end all this team's offensive troubles.

But clearly, Derrek Lee is the team's problem and starting 5 players that are either (a) not doing as well as he is this year or (b) not going to do as well as he is this year is the answer.

Cubbie Swagger · May 23, 2009

I think the problem with Derrek Lee is not that he is having a bad year, it's that he's just not very good anymore, period. He hasn't been good for awhile now. I think it's funny how Lou keeps him in the middle of the lineup just out of habit.

Also... people need to stop talking about Jake Fox and Josh Vitters like they're everyday major league players. They are not.

Cubswin11 · May 23, 2009

I think the problem with Derrek Lee is not that he is having a bad year, it's that he's just not very good anymore, period. He hasn't been good for awhile now. I think it's funny how Lou keeps him in the middle of the lineup just out of habit.

Also... people need to stop talking about Jake Fox and Josh Vitters like they're everyday major league players. They are not.

I think the bigger issue people need to get over is to stop expecting 2005 Lee. He isn't a 40 HR .330 BA guy anymore and never really was. He had 1 year outside of his career average and people automatically assumed he would/will continue to produce 2005 numbers when he has 10+ years of averaging numbers not nearly as good as 2005. People need to give Lee a break, he is going to hit 18-22 HR drive in 85-100 and bat somewhere between .275-.310 along with GG defense. Not great, but those are fine numbers from a 1B when we should have a deep lineup and we don't need to rely on 1 guy to have 2005 Lee seasons in order for us to win games.

Fox will never be an everyday guy. Maybe platoon, bench bat at best. If you are saying that Vitters wouldn't be a everyday guy right now then you are correct. But to say a guy who is 19 in A ball who is hitting .354 with 9 HR and a OPS of .986 doesn't have a chance to be a everyday player in 3-5 years is crazy.

TruffleShuffle · May 23, 2009

Since the Cubs are struggling to score runs (scored 2 runs in their last four games) maybe we should changes in the order?

1. Soriano 2B
2. Theriot SS
3. Fukodome CF
4. Bradley RF
5. Hoffpauir LF
6. J. Fox 1B
7. Soto C
8. Fontenot 3B

Also our starting pitching isnt so bad so why not get a solid bat in a trade insted of Peavy?

holy crap this would be a bad defensive team.

rawaction · May 23, 2009

I think the problem with Derrek Lee is not that he is having a bad year, it's that he's just not very good anymore, period. He hasn't been good for awhile now. I think it's funny how Lou keeps him in the middle of the lineup just out of habit.

Also... people need to stop talking about Jake Fox and Josh Vitters like they're everyday major league players. They are not.

Yet he has still been better than Bradley, Fontenot and Soto, and will be better this year than Fox or Hoffpauir would be on the field full-time. Lee might not be "that good" anymore, but why isn't he getting the benefit of the doubt when guys like Fontenot (who wasn't a highly regarded prospect and has never performed in a full-time role) and Soto (who had a mediocre minor league career until he blew up in AAA and last year in the majors) are?

Arnold Layne · May 23, 2009

I think the problem with Derrek Lee is not that he is having a bad year, it's that he's just not very good anymore, period. He hasn't been good for awhile now. I think it's funny how Lou keeps him in the middle of the lineup just out of habit.

Also... people need to stop talking about Jake Fox and Josh Vitters like they're everyday major league players. They are not.
I think the bigger issue people need to get over is to stop expecting 2005 Lee. He isn't a 40 HR .330 BA guy anymore and never really was. He had 1 year outside of his career average and people automatically assumed he would/will continue to produce 2005 numbers when he has 10+ years of averaging numbers not nearly as good as 2005. People need to give Lee a break, he is going to hit 18-22 HR drive in 85-100 and bat somewhere between .275-.310 along with GG defense. Not great, but those are fine numbers from a 1B when we should have a deep lineup and we don't need to rely on 1 guy to have 2005 Lee seasons in order for us to win games.

Fox will never be an everyday guy. Maybe platoon, bench bat at best. If you are saying that Vitters wouldn't be a everyday guy right now then you are correct. But to say a guy who is 19 in A ball who is hitting .354 with 9 HR and a OPS of .986 doesn't have a chance to be a everyday player in 3-5 years is crazy.

Have you seen Lee's road stats this year? I viewed them on another forum. Shocking.

He's bad. Real bad.

Arnold Layne · May 23, 2009

I think the problem with Derrek Lee is not that he is having a bad year, it's that he's just not very good anymore, period. He hasn't been good for awhile now. I think it's funny how Lou keeps him in the middle of the lineup just out of habit.

Also... people need to stop talking about Jake Fox and Josh Vitters like they're everyday major league players. They are not.

Yet he has still been better than Bradley, Fontenot and Soto, and will be better this year than Fox or Hoffpauir would be on the field full-time. Lee might not be "that good" anymore, but why isn't he getting the benefit of the doubt when guys like Fontenot (who wasn't a highly regarded prospect and has never performed in a full-time role) and Soto (who had a mediocre minor league career until he blew up in AAA and last year in the majors) are?

Because those guys are making close to the league minimum? Also, the fact he is taking up $13.25 million in payroll this year might have something to do with it.

TruffleShuffle · May 23, 2009

I think the problem with Derrek Lee is not that he is having a bad year, it's that he's just not very good anymore, period. He hasn't been good for awhile now. I think it's funny how Lou keeps him in the middle of the lineup just out of habit.

Also... people need to stop talking about Jake Fox and Josh Vitters like they're everyday major league players. They are not.

Yet he has still been better than Bradley, Fontenot and Soto, and will be better this year than Fox or Hoffpauir would be on the field full-time. Lee might not be "that good" anymore, but why isn't he getting the benefit of the doubt when guys like Fontenot (who wasn't a highly regarded prospect and has never performed in a full-time role) and Soto (who had a mediocre minor league career until he blew up in AAA and last year in the majors) are?

Because those guys are making close to the league minimum? Also, the fact he is taking up $13.25 million in payroll this year might have something to do with it.

and that's a sunk cost. you don't bench a guy just because he's not performing up to the amount of money that he's making.

THISisTHEyear09 · May 23, 2009

I think Soriano to second makes a lot of sense. They can get rid of Miles(who doesnt do a thing) because they will have Fontenot on the bench. Put Hoffpauir and Johnson in a platoon in Left and bring up Fox to be the power guy off the bench. And you keep the Gold Golve Lee in the field.

cubfan · May 23, 2009

Since the Cubs are struggling to score runs (scored 2 runs in their last four games) maybe we should changes in the order?

1. Soriano 2B
2. Theriot SS
3. Fukodome CF
4. Bradley RF
5. Hoffpauir LF
6. J. Fox 1B
7. Soto C
8. Fontenot 3B

Also our starting pitching isnt so bad so why not get a solid bat in a trade insted of Peavy?

Wouldn't it be better to put Hoffpauir at 1b and Fox in LF in this scenario? Hoff is a pretty good def 1b and Fox will be below avg no matter where he plays. This way the def is only bad in one spot vs two. Realistically I'd rather leave Lee at 1b and have Fox and Hoff platoon in LF while seeing how bad Soriano would be at 2B.

Arnold Layne · May 23, 2009

I think the problem with Derrek Lee is not that he is having a bad year, it's that he's just not very good anymore, period. He hasn't been good for awhile now. I think it's funny how Lou keeps him in the middle of the lineup just out of habit.

Also... people need to stop talking about Jake Fox and Josh Vitters like they're everyday major league players. They are not.

Yet he has still been better than Bradley, Fontenot and Soto, and will be better this year than Fox or Hoffpauir would be on the field full-time. Lee might not be "that good" anymore, but why isn't he getting the benefit of the doubt when guys like Fontenot (who wasn't a highly regarded prospect and has never performed in a full-time role) and Soto (who had a mediocre minor league career until he blew up in AAA and last year in the majors) are?

Because those guys are making close to the league minimum? Also, the fact he is taking up $13.25 million in payroll this year might have something to do with it.

and that's a sunk cost. you don't bench a guy just because he's not performing up to the amount of money that he's making.

That wasn't the argument. The question asked why Lee wasn't getting the benefit of the doubt.

Sammy Sofa · May 23, 2009

I think the problem with Derrek Lee is not that he is having a bad year, it's that he's just not very good anymore, period. He hasn't been good for awhile now. I think it's funny how Lou keeps him in the middle of the lineup just out of habit.

Also... people need to stop talking about Jake Fox and Josh Vitters like they're everyday major league players. They are not.

Yet he has still been better than Bradley, Fontenot and Soto, and will be better this year than Fox or Hoffpauir would be on the field full-time. Lee might not be "that good" anymore, but why isn't he getting the benefit of the doubt when guys like Fontenot (who wasn't a highly regarded prospect and has never performed in a full-time role) and Soto (who had a mediocre minor league career until he blew up in AAA and last year in the majors) are?

Because those guys are making close to the league minimum? Also, the fact he is taking up $13.25 million in payroll this year might have something to do with it.

and that's a sunk cost. you don't bench a guy just because he's not performing up to the amount of money that he's making.

That wasn't the argument. The question asked why Lee wasn't getting the benefit of the doubt.

That's a piss-poor argument then. Production is ultimately production, and right now the Cubs have to work with what they have.

chasinf5s · May 23, 2009

Scales needs to be in that lineup at 3rd instead of Fontenot

17 Seconds · May 24, 2009

I think Soriano to second makes a lot of sense.

Only if you want to keep losing games

Cubbie Swagger · May 24, 2009

I think the problem with Derrek Lee is not that he is having a bad year, it's that he's just not very good anymore, period. He hasn't been good for awhile now. I think it's funny how Lou keeps him in the middle of the lineup just out of habit.

Also... people need to stop talking about Jake Fox and Josh Vitters like they're everyday major league players. They are not.
I think the bigger issue people need to get over is to stop expecting 2005 Lee. He isn't a 40 HR .330 BA guy anymore and never really was. He had 1 year outside of his career average and people automatically assumed he would/will continue to produce 2005 numbers when he has 10+ years of averaging numbers not nearly as good as 2005. People need to give Lee a break, he is going to hit 18-22 HR drive in 85-100 and bat somewhere between .275-.310 along with GG defense. Not great, but those are fine numbers from a 1B when we should have a deep lineup and we don't need to rely on 1 guy to have 2005 Lee seasons in order for us to win games.

Fox will never be an everyday guy. Maybe platoon, bench bat at best. If you are saying that Vitters wouldn't be a everyday guy right now then you are correct. But to say a guy who is 19 in A ball who is hitting .354 with 9 HR and a OPS of .986 doesn't have a chance to be a everyday player in 3-5 years is crazy.

I agree. I don't think Lee is terrible... he's just nothing special offensively. Obviously the contract is not good, but that's not a knock on him as a player. I don't mind him at all as our first baseman... .280/20/80 with a decent OBP and gold glove defense is perfectly acceptable. The problem is that he's been glued to the 3 hole in our lineup far too long. I think if everyone were healthy (and hitting like they should) Lee would be better off in the 6 or 7 hole.

It's funny, Lee has alot of "blind" fans. It's almost like when Sosa was here... and everyone just loved Sammy because they loved him and he was the face of our team. Alot of the people at Wrigley wearing Lee jerseys don't even know his stats, and alot of them probably don't realize he's not still the 2005 Derrek Lee. They just cheer and cheer when he comes to the playe because he's Derrek Lee.

As far as Vitters and Fox... yes, I was referring to their abilities as of this season. I'm sure Vitters is gonna be a solid major league player someday, but he's not gonna be the final piece of the puzzle that turns the 2009 Cubs around.

hardcorecubfan · May 24, 2009

Who is being called up for the DH position in inter league?

CubColtPacer · May 24, 2009

Who is being called up for the DH position in inter league?

If they call somebody up, it will be Fox and they'll go to 11 pitchers. Bruce hinted that the Cubs might be somewhat close to ending the Patton experiment the other day on his blog.

But it's still somewhat likely that they call up nobody and use Hoffpauir as the DH (or do as they did last year and let their regulars DH while bench players trade off playing the field).

Soonernation · May 24, 2009

Right now i would be willing to sacrifice some defense if it meant more runs; you don't win many games scoring 1 run per game no matter how good your defense is

dew1679666265 · May 24, 2009

Right now i would be willing to sacrifice some defense if it meant more runs; you don't win many games scoring 1 run per game no matter how good your defense is

Problem is, the likelihood is that we'd be trading off a lot of defense for an unknown amount of offense. Getting Hoff in the lineup full time would be nice, but the only sure thing about Fox is that he can't play defense. He might be able to hit like crazy, he may struggle - nobody knows for sure. But he'll have to put up near his minor league numbers right now to make up for that defensive alignment.

Iowa Cub · May 26, 2009

I think the problem with Derrek Lee is not that he is having a bad year, it's that he's just not very good anymore, period. He hasn't been good for awhile now. I think it's funny how Lou keeps him in the middle of the lineup just out of habit.

Also... people need to stop talking about Jake Fox and Josh Vitters like they're everyday major league players. They are not.

Yet he has still been better than Bradley, Fontenot and Soto, and will be better this year than Fox or Hoffpauir would be on the field full-time. Lee might not be "that good" anymore, but why isn't he getting the benefit of the doubt when guys like Fontenot (who wasn't a highly regarded prospect and has never performed in a full-time role) and Soto (who had a mediocre minor league career until he blew up in AAA and last year in the majors) are?

Wow, Hoffpauir has a much better stick than DLee and Derrek's defense doesn't make up for his lack of offensive production. What next, are you going to tell us that Koyie Hill has better pop in his bat than Nelson Cruz?

17 Seconds · May 26, 2009

Derrek Lee in May - .333/.404/.608

Tracer Bullet · May 26, 2009

I think the problem with Derrek Lee is not that he is having a bad year, it's that he's just not very good anymore, period. He hasn't been good for awhile now. I think it's funny how Lou keeps him in the middle of the lineup just out of habit.

Also... people need to stop talking about Jake Fox and Josh Vitters like they're everyday major league players. They are not.

Yet he has still been better than Bradley, Fontenot and Soto, and will be better this year than Fox or Hoffpauir would be on the field full-time. Lee might not be "that good" anymore, but why isn't he getting the benefit of the doubt when guys like Fontenot (who wasn't a highly regarded prospect and has never performed in a full-time role) and Soto (who had a mediocre minor league career until he blew up in AAA and last year in the majors) are?

Because those guys are making close to the league minimum? Also, the fact he is taking up $13.25 million in payroll this year might have something to do with it.

and that's a sunk cost. you don't bench a guy just because he's not performing up to the amount of money that he's making.

That wasn't the argument. The question asked why Lee wasn't getting the benefit of the doubt.

Of course it's the argument. If we're trying to figure out who should get the benefit of the doubt in terms of increased ABs going forward, why would contract matter but history of performance in the majors not matter? That makes no sense.

The question isn't "why are fans frustrated with Lee?" In that case, it's obviously b/c his contract is ridiculous for his level of production. But taking him out of the lineup to take a shot that Fox can OPS 900 in the majors makes no sense. How much Lee and Fox make this year is irrelevant to that discussion.

Tracer Bullet · May 26, 2009

I think the problem with Derrek Lee is not that he is having a bad year, it's that he's just not very good anymore, period. He hasn't been good for awhile now. I think it's funny how Lou keeps him in the middle of the lineup just out of habit.

Also... people need to stop talking about Jake Fox and Josh Vitters like they're everyday major league players. They are not.

Yet he has still been better than Bradley, Fontenot and Soto, and will be better this year than Fox or Hoffpauir would be on the field full-time. Lee might not be "that good" anymore, but why isn't he getting the benefit of the doubt when guys like Fontenot (who wasn't a highly regarded prospect and has never performed in a full-time role) and Soto (who had a mediocre minor league career until he blew up in AAA and last year in the majors) are?
Wow, Hoffpauir has a much better stick than DLee and Derrek's defense doesn't make up for his lack of offensive production. What next, are you going to tell us that Koyie Hill has better pop in his bat than Nelson Cruz?

Based on what?

Hitting Struggles

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