When are the Cubs going to get a third baseman?

[dew1679666265]

beltre's actually not overpaid, but that's a different topic altogether

 

He is paid quite heftily, though, and that's not a good thing for our currently shoestring budget.

[jersey cubs fan]

Why is anybody considering Hendry will trade for a good everyday 3rd? Ramirez will be back in early July, and then what do we do with two 3rd baseman? It doesn't make sense to add a quality 3rd baseman with how much talent it will cost. When a team loses there star 3rd baseman for a 4-6 weeks there just stuck. You either pick up guys on the waiver wire, go to the minors or trade crap for crap(like Hairston for Nevin in 06). The Yankees had to use Cody Ransom at 3rd and the Mets would have the same problem if David Wright got hurt. This is just a bad thing that happen and we gotta suck it up and accept it. Not come up with crazy trade ideas that don't make sense.

 

When I said this:

I'm betting mid-August, and he'll be an average hitter.

 

I was referring to Aramis. I doubt he returns by early July, and I really don't think he'll return to form with that injury.

[cubsfan26]

Most certainly, a guy who can only play third would be further down the list, but that's why guys like Branyan, Huff, Wigginton (if available for the last two), etc. are more appealing to me. We could acquire them for better production than what we're getting now and then when Aramis gets back, they are versatile enough to still have great value even if he's fully healed.

 

Those guys are versatile but they will all play postions in which Hoffpauir will need to get AB's at. So if there not at 3rd you would be taking away playing time with Hoffpauir by playing them. Right now if anything Hoffpauir should be getting more playing time instead of less.

[fromthestretch]

Why is anybody considering Hendry will trade for a good everyday 3rd? Ramirez will be back in early July, and then what do we do with two 3rd baseman? It doesn't make sense to add a quality 3rd baseman with how much talent it will cost. When a team loses there star 3rd baseman for a 4-6 weeks there just stuck. You either pick up guys on the waiver wire, go to the minors or trade crap for crap(like Hairston for Nevin in 06). The Yankees had to use Cody Ransom at 3rd and the Mets would have the same problem if David Wright got hurt. This is just a bad thing that happen and we gotta suck it up and accept it. Not come up with crazy trade ideas that don't make sense.

 

The posted list of available third basemen also includes guys that have some positional versatility. Wigginton, DeRosa, Tracy, and Huff have all played some outfield (DeRosa and Huff moreso than Wigginton). Wigginton and DeRosa have both put in over 100 games at 2B. They've all played some first base. Crosby can play short.

 

If you acquire one of those guys, there's still potential for them to get playing time once Ramirez returns. You also need to consider that Ramirez will probably need days off here and there once he comes back.

[fromthestretch]

When a team loses it's star 3rd baseman you just need to suck it up and go with what you got.

 

Seriously? So you're saying that when a team expecting to contend loses one of its best hitters for what could very realistically be 2.5 to 3 months, they shouldn't look to fill that hole?

[jersey cubs fan]

Beltre has an OPS+ of 44 right now. He's a big OBP liability. If Seattle was looking to deal him and the price was marginal, I guess he'd be nice. But he'd almost certainly be just a rental.

[fromthestretch]

Beltre has an OPS+ of 44 right now. He's a big OBP liability. If Seattle was looking to deal him and the price was marginal, I guess he'd be nice. But he'd almost certainly be just a rental.

 

Of course. He's only signed through this season anyway, so there's no contractual commitment beyond 2009. His contract is quite pricey for this season though.

[Little Slide Rooter]

A list of potentially available third basemen:

 

Mora-yes

Beltre-yes

Atkins-take him if not other options pan out

Wigginton-I suppose

Huff-top choice

Tracy-probably not available

Helms-no thanks

Crede-too injury prone

Blalock-top choice

Crosby-no thanks

DeRosa-definitely take him

Kouzmanoff-take him if no other options pan out

 

Does Branyan have any 3B experience? maybe theres still some lightening left in that bottle.

 

Everybody but Helms or Crosby doesn't really make much sense. Because were do they play when Ramirez comes back? .

 

We worry about that when Ramirez comes back.

[Clem Fandango]

Beltre has an OPS+ of 44 right now. He's a big OBP liability. If Seattle was looking to deal him and the price was marginal, I guess he'd be nice. But he'd almost certainly be just a rental.

 

Of course. He's only signed through this season anyway, so there's no contractual commitment beyond 2009. His contract is quite pricey for this season though.

 

With the way he is playing there's no way the Mariners wouldn't eat some of his salary this year.

[dew1679666265]

Most certainly, a guy who can only play third would be further down the list, but that's why guys like Branyan, Huff, Wigginton (if available for the last two), etc. are more appealing to me. We could acquire them for better production than what we're getting now and then when Aramis gets back, they are versatile enough to still have great value even if he's fully healed.

 

Those guys are versatile but they will all play postions in which Hoffpauir will need to get AB's at. So if there not at 3rd you would be taking away playing time with Hoffpauir by playing them. Right now if anything Hoffpauir should be getting more playing time instead of less.

 

They can all play the outfield and despite his bat, Hoff shouldn't be getting too many appearances out there. Wigginton (120 games) has also played a decent amount of second base in his career, something we'll need if Fontenot's bat doesn't begin to warm up.

 

Like I said, though, I'd be more in favor of signing Ray Durham and playing Fontenot/Scales at 3B rather than trading for someone. Then when Aram comes back, Fontenot becomes a very solid hitter off the bench.

[fromthestretch]

Beltre has an OPS+ of 44 right now. He's a big OBP liability. If Seattle was looking to deal him and the price was marginal, I guess he'd be nice. But he'd almost certainly be just a rental.

 

Of course. He's only signed through this season anyway, so there's no contractual commitment beyond 2009. His contract is quite pricey for this season though.

 

With the way he is playing there's no way the Mariners wouldn't eat some of his salary this year.

 

They may ask for more in return as far as quality of player(s) in order to eat some of that salary though. Depends on the asking price I guess.

 

For what it's worth, I'd just really like to have DeRosa back. He's probably the most versatile of the bunch, plus Cleveland has pretty much made it known he's available.

[cubsfan26]

When a team loses it's star 3rd baseman you just need to suck it up and go with what you got.

 

Seriously? So you're saying that when a team expecting to contend loses one of its best hitters for what could very realistically be 2.5 to 3 months, they shouldn't look to fill that hole?

 

I have heard 1.5 to 2 months(Ramirez had the same injury before and came back after 6 weeks) and if it happens this early in the season it's not much you can do. Teams out of the race might be just droping salary so you might get some average veteran to fill that role. But teams right now aren't giving away 3rd baseman and you can't go trade good propsects when Ramirez is coming back. Like I said before the Yankees had the same issue with A-Rod and the Mets would have the same issue with David Wright if he got hurt. When a guy gets hurt early in the season and is scheduled to come back you can't really do much. Sure if the Orioles wanna give up Huff or Wigginton or the Indians wanna give us Mark DeRosa for Kevin Hart and other crap in the minors. Then sure fill the hole, but teams at this time of the year just aren't giving away players for nothing. So like I said your just stuck and have to deal with having crap, unless you get really really lucky.

[dew1679666265]

When a team loses it's star 3rd baseman you just need to suck it up and go with what you got.

 

Seriously? So you're saying that when a team expecting to contend loses one of its best hitters for what could very realistically be 2.5 to 3 months, they shouldn't look to fill that hole?

 

I have heard 1.5 to 2 months(Ramirez had the same injury before and came back after 6 weeks) and if it happens this early in the season it's not much you can do. Teams out of the race might be just droping salary so you might get some average veteran to fill that role. But teams right now aren't giving away 3rd baseman and you can't go trade good propsects when Ramirez is coming back. Like I said before the Yankees had the same issue with A-Rod and the Mets would have the same issue with David Wright if he got hurt. When a guy gets hurt early in the season and is scheduled to come back you can't really do much. Sure if the Orioles wanna give up Huff or Wigginton or the Indians wanna give us Mark DeRosa for Kevin Hart and other crap in the minors. Then sure fill the hole, but teams at this time of the year just aren't giving away players for nothing. So like I said your just stuck and have to deal with having crap, unless you get really really lucky.

 

Or you can get a guy like Wigginton or Branyan who can fill other roles after Aramis is back (assuming he's fully healed). Or you can sign Ray Durham and upgrade the entire team.

[cubsfan26]

We worry about that when Ramirez comes back.

 

Sounds great despite the fact that were not gonna get those players for nothing. Where either gonna have to take on a high salary or trade away quality talent that will stop us from making other moves. It sucks but fans just need to accept the cards that were dealt. Until Ramirez comes back were gonna have Fontenot, Freel and Scales over there and who knows we might add another bad back up 3rd. But guys like Huff, DeRosa, Wigginton, Mora, Beltre, Blalock and others aren't realistic.

[fromthestretch]

When a team loses it's star 3rd baseman you just need to suck it up and go with what you got.

 

Seriously? So you're saying that when a team expecting to contend loses one of its best hitters for what could very realistically be 2.5 to 3 months, they shouldn't look to fill that hole?

 

I have heard 1.5 to 2 months(Ramirez had the same injury before and came back after 6 weeks) and if it happens this early in the season it's not much you can do. Teams out of the race might be just droping salary so you might get some average veteran to fill that role. But teams right now aren't giving away 3rd baseman and you can't go trade good propsects when Ramirez is coming back. Like I said before the Yankees had the same issue with A-Rod and the Mets would have the same issue with David Wright if he got hurt. When a guy gets hurt early in the season and is scheduled to come back you can't really do much. Sure if the Orioles wanna give up Huff or Wigginton or the Indians wanna give us Mark DeRosa for Kevin Hart and other crap in the minors. Then sure fill the hole, but teams at this time of the year just aren't giving away players for nothing. So like I said your just stuck and have to deal with having crap, unless you get really really lucky.

 

That's a horrible approach to have. You can't just assume that you're stuck. At the very least, you need to explore the available options. Yes, there's a chance you won't find anything you like for a price you're willing to pay, and if that happens, you stand pat. But you can't just sit on your hands and assume that Ramirez comes back in a reasonable amount of time AND produces at the level he's been at for the past several years once he does return.

[jersey cubs fan]

When a team loses it's star 3rd baseman you just need to suck it up and go with what you got.

 

Seriously? So you're saying that when a team expecting to contend loses one of its best hitters for what could very realistically be 2.5 to 3 months, they shouldn't look to fill that hole?

 

I have heard 1.5 to 2 months(Ramirez had the same injury before and came back after 6 weeks) and if it happens this early in the season it's not much you can do. Teams out of the race might be just droping salary so you might get some average veteran to fill that role. But teams right now aren't giving away 3rd baseman and you can't go trade good propsects when Ramirez is coming back. Like I said before the Yankees had the same issue with A-Rod and the Mets would have the same issue with David Wright if he got hurt. When a guy gets hurt early in the season and is scheduled to come back you can't really do much. Sure if the Orioles wanna give up Huff or Wigginton or the Indians wanna give us Mark DeRosa for Kevin Hart and other crap in the minors. Then sure fill the hole, but teams at this time of the year just aren't giving away players for nothing. So like I said your just stuck and have to deal with having crap, unless you get really really lucky.

 

The Yankees did not have the same situation with ARod. He missed 1 month, and they were a great hitting team without him. The Cubs are going to miss Aramis for a huge chunk of the middle of the season, and they kind of stink at hitting and scoring runs. And given that it was a serious shoulder injury that could very easily affect his very violent swing when he does come back, we don't even know what he'll produce upon returning. On top of that, given all his other health issues, there's no telling how long he'll stay healthy before going down again.

[dew1679666265]

We worry about that when Ramirez comes back.

 

Sounds great despite the fact that were not gonna get those players for nothing. Where either gonna have to take on a high salary or trade away quality talent that will stop us from making other moves. It sucks but fans just need to accept the cards that were dealt. Until Ramirez comes back were gonna have Fontenot, Freel and Scales over there and who knows we might add another bad back up 3rd. But guys like Huff, DeRosa, Wigginton, Mora, Beltre, Blalock and others aren't realistic.

 

If Aramis does get back in early July, what is stopping us from acquiring a guy now (say Branyan or Wigginton) and then shipping that player off when/if Aramis gets back fully healthy? It may not be a likely occurence, but it'd be something to consider.

[cubsfan26]

Or you can get a guy like Wigginton or Branyan who can fill other roles after Aramis is back (assuming he's fully healed). Or you can sign Ray Durham and upgrade the entire team.

 

Were gonna have to give up decent talent to even get Wigginton or Branyan at this point of the year. Wigginton is signed for next year as well, and wouldn't have a spot on the team when Ramirez came back due to Hoffpauir and not really being able to play good defense at 2nd(is horrible at 3rd to). Branyan probably makes more sense because after he's back you can just use him as a pinch hitter and still play Hoffpauir over him. But again he makes very little money, and it's still early in the season. The Mariners aren't just gonna give him away unless they get something of value. Ray Durham might not be a bad idea and it's worth a try. But at the same time he's old and hasn't played baseball since last year and by the time he's ready to produce Ramirez might be on his way back already. We can't sign Durham now and expect him to be a effective hitter for at least a month and he might have to go in the minors to get himself ready.

[fromthestretch]

But guys like Huff, DeRosa, Wigginton, Mora, Beltre, Blalock and others aren't realistic.

 

Some of them very well could be realistic.

[Old Style]

Doesn't Blalock play 1B too?

[Post Count Padder]

Beltre has an OPS+ of 44 right now. He's a big OBP liability. If Seattle was looking to deal him and the price was marginal, I guess he'd be nice. But he'd almost certainly be just a rental.

Yeah, he's not really that good.

[cubsfan26]

(say Branyan or Wigginton) and then shipping that player off when/if Aramis gets back fully healthy? It may not be a likely occurence, but it'd be something to consider.

 

Supply and demand right now your gonna have to give up something good for one of those players. Teams know the Cubs have a problem and don't have reasons to trade those players. So the asking price is gonna be higher then it should be. In July or even August those guys will only cost a average prospect. Because teams with holes at 3rd will have alot more options with more teams out of the race and cutting salary.

[fromthestretch]

Or you can get a guy like Wigginton or Branyan who can fill other roles after Aramis is back (assuming he's fully healed). Or you can sign Ray Durham and upgrade the entire team.

 

Were gonna have to give up decent talent to even get Wigginton or Branyan at this point of the year. Wigginton is signed for next year as well, and wouldn't have a spot on the team when Ramirez came back due to Hoffpauir and not really being able to play good defense at 2nd(is horrible at 3rd to). Branyan probably makes more sense because after he's back you can just use him as a pinch hitter and still play Hoffpauir over him. But again he makes very little money, and it's still early in the season. The Mariners aren't just gonna give him away unless they get something of value. Ray Durham might not be a bad idea and it's worth a try. But at the same time he's old and hasn't played baseball since last year and by the time he's ready to produce Ramirez might be on his way back already. We can't sign Durham now and expect him to be a effective hitter for at least a month and he might have to go in the minors to get himself ready.

 

Wigginton would definitely have a spot on the roster when Ramirez gets back. Freel's the one that probably wouldn't have a spot.

 

I agree with you about Durham. There was something on MLBTradeRumors about his agent saying he would need some time to get ready.

[cubsfan26]

But guys like Huff, DeRosa, Wigginton, Mora, Beltre, Blalock and others aren't realistic.

 

Some of them very well could be realistic.

 

 

Think what you wanna think but Ramirez isn't gonna get replaced with a player like those guys at this point of the season. Unless Hendry has to give up prospects that people won't like him giving up for them.

[soapy]

for dew and anyone else suggesting Durham: how long is it going to take a 37 year old who hasn't been playing to get in "game shape"? i can't really see him as a viable option as far as replacing some of Ramirez' production.

 

edit: i guess some others already beat me to that question.

Edited May 21, 2009 by soapy