Why carry 12 pitchers?

[soapy]

I thought Bruce's most recent blog would make for an interesting discussion topic. Bruce questions the need for 12 pitchers, given that they really aren't even using 12.

 

Patton hasn't appeared in a game since May 9. He's appeared in one of the last eleven games. His 1.784 WHIP isn't exactly lighting the world on fire, not that one would expect much more from a guy who's never thrown above A. At what point is it no longer worth holding a roster spot for him just so you don't have to give him back? What are you going to get from Patton that you can't get from someone like, say, Jeff Stevens (as one example).

 

Of course the other candidate to be removed is Cotts. Lou has finally stopped going to him, and now seems poised to make Marshall his lefty out of the pen. Setting aside whether or not that's a good idea, things appear headed that way, particularly if Wells puts together a few more good starts.

 

Point being, the Cubs aren't even use 12 pitchers. At this point it seems the extra bat could be of more help. Despite not having a position, it probably makes sense to call up Jake Fox and take advantage of his incredible hot streak (or maybe it's even more than that). He could get plenty of PAs as a pinch-hitter and getting a little time at 1B, LF, RF or even (gulp) 3B.

 

Curious to see where everyone else comes out on this.

[Backtobanks]

I think Patton has to stay or go through waivers, but I agree that Fox makes more sense than Cotts/Patton/Ascanio or Miles/Freel. Maybe they will call him up when they get to inter-league play to use as DH. Of course, by then he will be slumping or injured.

[jersey cubs fan]

It's the norm to keep 12, but that doesn't make it right, just like countless other bits of conventional wisdom in baseball. The Cubs have routinely kept 12 guys without using that 7th reliever much, if at all. Juan Cruz was once the guy who sat for weeks at a time. If you have a solid 1-8 lineup with few, if any holes, and little need for offense off your bench, then great. But right now this team doesn't have a 3rd baseman and they are getting piss poor production from 1B, 2B and C. They could use a potentially potent bench bat much more than they could use an ineffecitive arm in the bullpen.

[SouthSideRyan]

Because we can't afford to lose a 25 year old guy who never got beyond A ball

[Keener98]

It's the norm to keep 12, but that doesn't make it right, just like countless other bits of conventional wisdom in baseball. The Cubs have routinely kept 12 guys without using that 7th reliever much, if at all. Juan Cruz was once the guy who sat for weeks at a time. If you have a solid 1-8 lineup with few, if any holes, and little need for offense off your bench, then great. But right now this team doesn't have a 3rd baseman and they are getting piss poor production from 1B, 2B and C. They could use a potentially potent bench bat much more than they could use an ineffecitive arm in the bullpen.

 

 

I agree with everything you say, except I think we can take catcher out of the piss poor production category. Soto in May has an OPS near .800 and they only reason thats so low is hes not hitting for power. Everything else in his stat line in May is pretty damn good, and Id be ecstatic if his average and OBP are where they are for the month of May in his final stat line.

 

.298 .382 .404 .786 so far in the exact same amount of at bats as April. Damn that slugging is piss poor though

[Old Style]

Because we can't afford to lose a 25 year old guy who never got beyond A ball

Didn't ESPN.com run an article the other day about MLB teams using the DL creatively to keep from having to released high priced players that haven't been living up to their contract? We could do that for Patton if they're so worried about losing him.

[jersey cubs fan]

It's the norm to keep 12, but that doesn't make it right, just like countless other bits of conventional wisdom in baseball. The Cubs have routinely kept 12 guys without using that 7th reliever much, if at all. Juan Cruz was once the guy who sat for weeks at a time. If you have a solid 1-8 lineup with few, if any holes, and little need for offense off your bench, then great. But right now this team doesn't have a 3rd baseman and they are getting piss poor production from 1B, 2B and C. They could use a potentially potent bench bat much more than they could use an ineffecitive arm in the bullpen.

 

 

I agree with everything you say, except I think we can take catcher out of the piss poor production category. Soto in May has an OPS near .800 and they only reason thats so low is hes not hitting for power. Everything else in his stat line in May is pretty damn good, and Id be ecstatic if his average and OBP are where they are for the month of May in his final stat line.

 

.298 .382 .404 .786 so far in the exact same amount of at bats as April. Damn that slugging is piss poor though

 

The catcher production sucks for the year, and that is the point.

[Keener98]

It's the norm to keep 12, but that doesn't make it right, just like countless other bits of conventional wisdom in baseball. The Cubs have routinely kept 12 guys without using that 7th reliever much, if at all. Juan Cruz was once the guy who sat for weeks at a time. If you have a solid 1-8 lineup with few, if any holes, and little need for offense off your bench, then great. But right now this team doesn't have a 3rd baseman and they are getting piss poor production from 1B, 2B and C. They could use a potentially potent bench bat much more than they could use an ineffecitive arm in the bullpen.

 

 

I agree with everything you say, except I think we can take catcher out of the piss poor production category. Soto in May has an OPS near .800 and they only reason thats so low is hes not hitting for power. Everything else in his stat line in May is pretty damn good, and Id be ecstatic if his average and OBP are where they are for the month of May in his final stat line.

 

.298 .382 .404 .786 so far in the exact same amount of at bats as April. Damn that slugging is piss poor though

 

The catcher production sucks for the year, and that is the point.

 

It sucked for the first 47 at bats and has been above average for the 2nd 47 at bats. Your statement that they are getting piss poor production from catcher right now is wrong. Right now they arent getting piss poor production from catcher.

[SouthSideRyan]

Because we can't afford to lose a 25 year old guy who never got beyond A ball

Didn't ESPN.com run an article the other day about MLB teams using the DL creatively to keep from having to released high priced players that haven't been living up to their contract? We could do that for Patton if they're so worried about losing him.

 

There's a minimum # of days he has to be on the active roster in order to be able to send him down next year.

[jersey cubs fan]

It's the norm to keep 12, but that doesn't make it right, just like countless other bits of conventional wisdom in baseball. The Cubs have routinely kept 12 guys without using that 7th reliever much, if at all. Juan Cruz was once the guy who sat for weeks at a time. If you have a solid 1-8 lineup with few, if any holes, and little need for offense off your bench, then great. But right now this team doesn't have a 3rd baseman and they are getting piss poor production from 1B, 2B and C. They could use a potentially potent bench bat much more than they could use an ineffecitive arm in the bullpen.

 

 

I agree with everything you say, except I think we can take catcher out of the piss poor production category. Soto in May has an OPS near .800 and they only reason thats so low is hes not hitting for power. Everything else in his stat line in May is pretty damn good, and Id be ecstatic if his average and OBP are where they are for the month of May in his final stat line.

 

.298 .382 .404 .786 so far in the exact same amount of at bats as April. Damn that slugging is piss poor though

 

The catcher production sucks for the year, and that is the point.

 

It sucked for the first 47 at bats and has been above average for the 2nd 47 at bats. Your statement that they are getting piss poor production from catcher right now is wrong. Right now they arent getting piss poor production from catcher.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=OPS&split=78&group=8&season=2009&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg

 

The Cubs have a 674 OPS out of the catchers spot this year, 15th out of 16 NL teams. Sorry, I'm not wrong. They have a worthless 7th reliever, no 3rd baseman and are getting piss poor production from 2b, 1b and catcher.

[Rob]

Because we can't afford to lose a 25 year old guy who never got beyond A ball

Didn't ESPN.com run an article the other day about MLB teams using the DL creatively to keep from having to released high priced players that haven't been living up to their contract? We could do that for Patton if they're so worried about losing him.

 

There's a minimum # of days he has to be on the active roster in order to be able to send him down next year.

 

If memory serves, it's all of them.

 

Basically, any time he spends on the DL this year, he would have to make up on the active roster next year before we would be able to send him down.

[Little Slide Rooter]

He could always have a social anxiety order.

[Keener98]

It's the norm to keep 12, but that doesn't make it right, just like countless other bits of conventional wisdom in baseball. The Cubs have routinely kept 12 guys without using that 7th reliever much, if at all. Juan Cruz was once the guy who sat for weeks at a time. If you have a solid 1-8 lineup with few, if any holes, and little need for offense off your bench, then great. But right now this team doesn't have a 3rd baseman and they are getting piss poor production from 1B, 2B and C. They could use a potentially potent bench bat much more than they could use an ineffecitive arm in the bullpen.

 

 

I agree with everything you say, except I think we can take catcher out of the piss poor production category. Soto in May has an OPS near .800 and they only reason thats so low is hes not hitting for power. Everything else in his stat line in May is pretty damn good, and Id be ecstatic if his average and OBP are where they are for the month of May in his final stat line.

 

.298 .382 .404 .786 so far in the exact same amount of at bats as April. Damn that slugging is piss poor though

 

The catcher production sucks for the year, and that is the point.

 

It sucked for the first 47 at bats and has been above average for the 2nd 47 at bats. Your statement that they are getting piss poor production from catcher right now is wrong. Right now they arent getting piss poor production from catcher.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=OPS&split=78&group=8&season=2009&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg

 

The Cubs have a 674 OPS out of the catchers spot this year, 15th out of 16 NL teams. Sorry, I'm not wrong. They have a worthless 7th reliever, no 3rd baseman and are getting piss poor production from 2b, 1b and catcher.

 

Those numbers are like that from his 1st 47 at bats when they were getting piss poor production. You said "right now" they are getting piss poor production, which is false. An OPS of near .800 in his last 47 at bats, and an OPS over 1.000 in his last 7 games is not getting piss poor production RIGHT NOW.

[Old Style]

Because we can't afford to lose a 25 year old guy who never got beyond A ball

Didn't ESPN.com run an article the other day about MLB teams using the DL creatively to keep from having to released high priced players that haven't been living up to their contract? We could do that for Patton if they're so worried about losing him.

 

There's a minimum # of days he has to be on the active roster in order to be able to send him down next year.

 

If memory serves, it's all of them.

 

Basically, any time he spends on the DL this year, he would have to make up on the active roster next year before we would be able to send him down.

If you trust Wikipedia as a source, it's only 90 days.

To prevent the abuse of the Rule 5 draft, the rule also states that the draftee must be active for at least 90 days. This keeps teams from drafting players, then placing them on the disabled list for the majority of the season. For example, if a Rule 5 draftee was only active for 67 days in his first season with his new club, he must be active for an additional 23 games in his second season to satisfy the Rule 5 requirements.

[jersey cubs fan]

Those numbers are like that from his 1st 47 at bats when they were getting piss poor production. You said "right now" they are getting piss poor production, which is false. An OPS of near .800 in his last 47 at bats, and an OPS over 1.000 in his last 7 games is not getting piss poor production RIGHT NOW.

 

Okay Bill Clinton. I don't care that Lee had a nice weekend either, the stats suck at multiple positions including catcher, and they've had a worthless 7th reliever all year.

 

RIGHT NOW they aren't playing a game, so it doesn't matter who they have at what position.

[Keener98]

Those numbers are like that from his 1st 47 at bats when they were getting piss poor production. You said "right now" they are getting piss poor production, which is false. An OPS of near .800 in his last 47 at bats, and an OPS over 1.000 in his last 7 games is not getting piss poor production RIGHT NOW.

 

Okay Bill Clinton. I don't care that Lee had a nice weekend either, the stats suck at multiple positions including catcher, and they've had a worthless 7th reliever all year.

 

 

Like I said I agreed with everything else you said, but the notion that Soto is giving piss poor production right now isnt true, and Lee having a good game, not weekend, isnt in the same category. The stats are on a very strong upward trend for catcher, unlike the other positions you mentioned, so I feel it is pretty unfair to lump catcher into the piss poor production right now category. They have had a worthless 7th reliever all year, and I agree 100% that calling up a bat to use in place of that reliever is a good idea.

[SouthSideRyan]

Because we can't afford to lose a 25 year old guy who never got beyond A ball

Didn't ESPN.com run an article the other day about MLB teams using the DL creatively to keep from having to released high priced players that haven't been living up to their contract? We could do that for Patton if they're so worried about losing him.

 

There's a minimum # of days he has to be on the active roster in order to be able to send him down next year.

 

If memory serves, it's all of them.

 

Basically, any time he spends on the DL this year, he would have to make up on the active roster next year before we would be able to send him down.

If you trust Wikipedia as a source, it's only 90 days.

To prevent the abuse of the Rule 5 draft, the rule also states that the draftee must be active for at least 90 days. This keeps teams from drafting players, then placing them on the disabled list for the majority of the season. For example, if a Rule 5 draftee was only active for 67 days in his first season with his new club, he must be active for an additional 23 games in his second season to satisfy the Rule 5 requirements.

 

I thought it was 120, but it might be 90 pre-September days. I know there are exceptions for September rosterings in some regard because of expanded rosters.

[Guest]

I always thought it was 90 but I'm worried that I'm agreeing with Wikipedia.

[NCCubFan]

I always thought it was 90 but I'm worried that I'm agreeing with Wikipedia.

I always thought it was 90 too. That's essentially half the season (more than half of the part of the season with the 25-man roster limit).