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Lou says "no more Hoff in RF"

Keener98

By Keener98,
in Chicago Cubs Talk

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SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

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Moving Soriano down in the lineup is the most overhyped "problem" this team has. There's about a billionty other things that need fixing before that.

 

Soriano is a perfectly capabale leadoff hitter, nobodys denying that. However, lack of production at the heart of the lineup is a big problem, and if moving Soriano to the center of the lineup could potentially fix that problem. With guys like Fontenot, Soto, Bradley and Lee, they'll just have to work themselves out of their little funks, and theres nothing Lou can do to fix that, but if he can add a productive power bat where its needed most, that should be at the top of your to do list.

 

So then lack of production from the beginning of the lineup can be a problem.

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Colin Wyers Prep Ball

Colin Wyers

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That's disingenuous. Since the end of last May, Derrek Lee has been utterly worthless offensively. There is no explanation why he started off so well last year and ended up what he has been for the last 11 months or so, but it is what happened.

 

Since the end of last May, not including his 65 or so PAs this season, Lee has a 108 OPS+. Your notion of "utterly useless" is questionable at best. (And I'd argue that OPS+ underweights Lee's offensive production - I used it because that's how the splits are presented at B-Ref.)

jersey cubs fan GOAT

jersey cubs fan

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That's disingenuous. Since the end of last May, Derrek Lee has been utterly worthless offensively. There is no explanation why he started off so well last year and ended up what he has been for the last 11 months or so, but it is what happened.

 

Since the end of last May, not including his 65 or so PAs this season, Lee has a 108 OPS+. Your notion of "utterly useless" is questionable at best. (And I'd argue that OPS+ underweights Lee's offensive production - I used it because that's how the splits are presented at B-Ref.)

 

I find that hard to believe. However, why the end of May and why would you not include his PA this year, that's dumb? He sucked starting at the end of April. From May 1 to today he's got to be sub 100 OPS+.

Little Slide Rooter MVP

Little Slide Rooter

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Moving Soriano down in the lineup is the most overhyped "problem" this team has. There's about a billionty other things that need fixing before that.

 

Soriano is a perfectly capabale leadoff hitter, nobodys denying that. However, lack of production at the heart of the lineup is a big problem, and if moving Soriano to the center of the lineup could potentially fix that problem. With guys like Fontenot, Soto, Bradley and Lee, they'll just have to work themselves out of their little funks, and theres nothing Lou can do to fix that, but if he can add a productive power bat where its needed most, that should be at the top of your to do list.

 

So then lack of production from the beginning of the lineup can be a problem.

 

If Theriot and Fukudome keep doing what theyve been doing so far, than it wont be.

Andy GOAT

Andy

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fwiw. lee's sops+ was over 100 last june. and july. and august. and september.

Unfortunately for him, he's playing a position where barely eclipsing 100 OPS+ isn't nearly good enough.

Tracer Bullet Knoxville Smokies

Tracer Bullet

Old-Timey Member
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Posted
so is it mediocrity or utterly worthless? Doesn't seem like it can be both.

 

Doesn't seem like the same person said both.

 

No and I didn't suggest otherwise. I don't think meph posted those numbers to suggest mediocrity from Lee was a great thing.

Careless Knoxville Smokies

Careless

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What happened? I didn't watch the game.

 

Hoff misplayed a single for a two base error and two runs scored. I don't think anything else happened besides that.

Well, he also played 2 other balls poorly. Didn't affect how the play turned out, but he came visibly close to screwing up.

badnews First Round Pick

badnews

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Derrek Lee would be a badass hitting shortstop. And you know what? If Pat Burrell played a legitimate center field he'd be making way more money.

 

But when you start ranking Derrek Lee among first baseman, in the here and now, no, it looks bad. If you want to rank Derrek Lee among shortstops in hitting, yes, well, then he'd look good. But how many first baseman would you take above Derrek Lee at this point, like a hundred billion? I mean, he's not as bad as Lyle Overbay but if he was getting paid like Lyle Overbay I wouldn't mind. The money is inseparable from the production. If Darren Dreifort or Mike Hampton didn't sign those contracts no one would care that they sucked.

 

It's like Mo Vaughn. Mo Vaughn is not hilarious simply because his name is Mo Vaughn, he's enormously fat, and he spent all of his time in strip clubs, Mo Vaughn is that much funnier because the Mets signed him for an obscene amount of money and did nothing but keep New York's red light district still financed at a time when it looked like Guiliani had permanently stamped it out.

Colin Wyers Prep Ball

Colin Wyers

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
That's disingenuous. Since the end of last May, Derrek Lee has been utterly worthless offensively. There is no explanation why he started off so well last year and ended up what he has been for the last 11 months or so, but it is what happened.

 

Since the end of last May, not including his 65 or so PAs this season, Lee has a 108 OPS+. Your notion of "utterly useless" is questionable at best. (And I'd argue that OPS+ underweights Lee's offensive production - I used it because that's how the splits are presented at B-Ref.)

 

I find that hard to believe. However, why the end of May and why would you not include his PA this year, that's dumb? He sucked starting at the end of April. From May 1 to today he's got to be sub 100 OPS+.

 

I did the end of May because that's the time period Andy specified. Including this year's PAs would have taken some additional time and it didn't really change the substance of the point.

 

But all selective endpoints are arbitrary if we're trying to discern future performance - why exclude last April?

 

Projections based upon past performance are simple stuff - just go take a look at whatever's on Fangraphs under the player card and that should work just fine. (Well, except for the Bill James projections. Ignore those.)

Andy GOAT

Andy

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I excluded last April because Derrek Lee wasn't worthless last April, and it would've been very stupid of me to say he was. Pretty simple.
Tracer Bullet Knoxville Smokies

Tracer Bullet

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I excluded last April because Derrek Lee wasn't worthless last April, and it would've been very stupid of me to say he was. Pretty simple.

 

He wasn't worthless after April either.

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