NHL W. Conference Finals: Red Wings defeat Blackhawks 4-1

[Hairyducked Idiot]

He was born in Buffalo. Big freaking deal. He also played youth hockey in Michigan and London as well. Practically every player has strong ties to another team's city. Buffalo isn't even guaranteed to have a team for the longterm, and they can hardly afford to overpay anybody. Kane is building huge ties to Chicago right now. His marketing opportunities are skyrocketting in a city that is blowing away anything northwest NY has to offer in terms of passion for the team and its players.

 

It's like what everybody always said about Kerry Wood, he had just as much ties to Texas as Kane has to Buffalo. But when a guy starts getting praised as an athlete in Chicago, and starts celebrating with a Chicago girl or four, he, more often than not, ends up staying.

 

Well, then I hope you are right. I'd love to keep Kane at a reasonable price.

[jaydee]

This is pretty ignorant. There is no way for him to develop physically or defensively?

 

The two guys you mentioned are both an inch taller and 20 pounds heavier than Kane as listed (30-35 pounds heavier than Kane in reality). Kane's body is not physically capable of putting on that much muscle and maintaining his skating speed.

 

Those two guys *never* had a minus season in the NHL. Kane has already had two.

 

AARRGGGGHH! to homer, myopic fans who want to argue such an obvious point and force me to point out Kane's flaws on a day like this

 

Right. They also weren't in the NHL when they were 19, like Kane was. They also got to play in the SEL and in Russia professionally before they entered the NHL. Before entering the NHL, Kane played for the USA U18 team and the London Knights. So he was a lot less prepared for the NHL and was younger when entering the NHL.

 

I would like to know how you gained the knowledge of how much weight Kane can put on before he loses speed and agility...what's the exact number at? I'm sure he can put on at least 20 pounds which would be perfectly fine with me.

Edited May 12, 2009 by jaydee

[jersey cubs fan]

AARRGGGGHH! to homer, myopic fans who want to argue such an obvious point and force me to point out Kane's flaws on a day like this

 

Oh grow up. Practically everybody on here has expressed shock and surprise at how well this team has played. And people are suggesting it's possible for a 20 year old hockey player to develop. That's hardly a homer/myopic sentiment.

[jersey cubs fan]

You realize size isn't that important in the NHL anymore right? The final four teams are all going to be smaller skilled groups most likely. The NHL is moving close to what it was when Gretzky played (thankfully).

 

Two posts after you called my post ignorant, this is hilarious.

 

This isn't the the neutral-zone trap, clutch-and-grab NHL, and it isn't Gretzky's era. It's something in between. Size, speed and skill all matter. Or do you not think Byfuglien and Eager were important for the Hawks in these two series?

 

They played a role, but were also absent for good chunks of the postseason.

 

You are quiblying over 1 inch differences in bodies.

[jaydee]

Looking at this: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/teams/Chi/roster

 

2.5 mil for Brent Sopel

2.1 mil for Kieth Carney

1.5 mil for Andre Zyuzen

 

I dont even know who they are (or their contract status), but seems like more we can get off the books.

 

That site also doesn't take into account the bonus money a lot of young guys are getting this year..... for instance Kane got about 2 mil in bonuses at least so in reality he got paid about 3mil this year, not 875k. I'm sure the hawks can learn a lot from what Holland is doing in terms of circumventing the cap as well.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

AARRGGGGHH! to homer, myopic fans who want to argue such an obvious point and force me to point out Kane's flaws on a day like this

 

Oh grow up. Practically everybody on here has expressed shock and surprise at how well this team has played. And people are suggesting it's possible for a 20 year old hockey player to develop. That's hardly a homer/myopic sentiment.

 

 

Develop? Sure. Completely change the nature of his game? Not likely.

[jaydee]

And plus minus is meaningless. Beyond meaningless.

 

So you think it is a coincidence that Kane is so often on the ice when the other team scores goals?

 

Personally even if that is the case I wouldn't be too worried about it right now in his career. But plus minus is a terribly flawed stat that does nothing for me really.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

And plus minus is meaningless. Beyond meaningless.

 

So you think it is a coincidence that Kane is so often on the ice when the other team scores goals?

 

Personally even if that is the case I wouldn't be too worried about it right now in his career. But plus minus is a terribly flawed stat that does nothing for me really.

 

That's reasonable. But all that's left is what we both subjectively see on the ice. And let me tell you: Kane's defensive responsibility scores almost as often as Kane does at even strength.

[manbearcub]

OK, here we go. http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=CHI&season=0809

 

 

UFA:

Khabibulin 6.75

Havlat 6

Pahlsson 1.4

Walker .6

Johnson .5

 

RFA

Bolland .85

Brouwer .7

Eager .65

Fraser .5

Versteeg .49

Barker 2.7

Niemi .9

Crawford .66

 

Kane and Toews are both signed through next season, but due to signing bonuses Kane's cap hit right now is already 3.725 and Toews' is already 3 mill so it may not be as much of a reach as we thought.

 

Sharp is signed through 2012 at ~ 4 mil/year.

Seabrook has 2 more years at 3.5 mil/year

Kieth has one more year 1.9 mil.

 

Not as bad as I thought.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Okay, in summary and absolutely my last post on the subject:

 

Kane is an awesome offensive player but he is limited in what roles he can play and at this point in his career he is a defensive liability. That still produces great net value, but there's no point in ignoring his flaws.

 

Some of you believe that he has a chance to significantly grow in terms of defensive responsibility and defensively skill. I don't think that's likely, despite his young age.

 

I fear that the combination of his flash, the fact that he is American-born and his ties to the northeast may cause a team to pay him far more than his on-ice contributions warrant and the Hawks will be forced to let him go.

 

Some of you do not think that is likely. I hope you are right and PatrickJonathanRM will be able to see the player he is named after in an Indian Head sweater for years.

 

There, that should sum it up, and now let's all be thankful for how cool it is for the Blackhawks to be in the conference finals and for a player with the skill of Kane to have a hat trick in the decisive semifinal game!

[Hairyducked Idiot]

From that list, the guy I'd be most worried about losing would be Barker. I wouldn't be shocked if someone overpays him.

 

But then if they did, the Hawks would get a huge RFA-compensation haul.

[manbearcub]

Game replay on CSN right now. Im definitely watching.

[jaydee]

OK, here we go. http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=CHI&season=0809

 

 

UFA:

Khabibulin 6.75

Havlat 6

Pahlsson 1.4

Walker .6

Johnson .5

 

RFA

Bolland .85

Brouwer .7

Eager .65

Fraser .5

Versteeg .49

Barker 2.7

Niemi .9

Crawford .66

 

Kane and Toews are both signed through next season, but due to signing bonuses Kane's cap hit right now is already 3.725 and Toews' is already 3 mill so it may not be as much of a reach as we thought.

 

Sharp is signed through 2012 at ~ 4 mil/year.

Seabrook has 2 more years at 3.5 mil/year

Kieth has one more year 1.9 mil.

 

Not as bad as I thought.

Yah, when you take the young guys bonuses into account, the situation isn't looking that bad. Especially since of the goalies will be gone.

[manbearcub]

From that list, the guy I'd be most worried about losing would be Barker. I wouldn't be shocked if someone overpays him.

 

But then if they did, the Hawks would get a huge RFA-compensation haul.

 

In 2008 a team signing a restricted free agent to a salary averaging $2,615,625 to $3,923,437 per season will lose a first-round draft pick and a third-round draft pick to the player’s old team.

 

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/nhlfreeagents/a/nhl_free_agents_2.htm

[Hairyducked Idiot]

From that list, the guy I'd be most worried about losing would be Barker. I wouldn't be shocked if someone overpays him.

 

But then if they did, the Hawks would get a huge RFA-compensation haul.

 

In 2008 a team signing a restricted free agent to a salary averaging $2,615,625 to $3,923,437 per season will lose a first-round draft pick and a third-round draft pick to the player’s old team.

 

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/nhlfreeagents/a/nhl_free_agents_2.htm

 

 

If it's under $4 million, Hawks would match.

[TruffleShuffle]

I like Toews better as well. But again, if Pittsburgh can keep Malkin and Crosby, the Blackhawks can keep Toews and Kane. They should lock them both up for 3-4 years this offseason.

 

bingo. actually, the hawks are probably a decent analogy for the flyers. toews is mike richards, a two-way center and the team leader. richards got a 12 year, $69M deal last offseason. jeff carter and pat kane are fairly similar, though carter is better defensively and is bigger, but probably doesn't have the overall offensive game of kane. carter got 3 years and $15M, but that was before he busted out as a goal scorer this year. in addition to those guys, the flyers also have a high paid defenseman (timonen), danny briere's (albatross) contract and a couple of other fairly sizable deals in hartnell, lupul and gagne.

 

sharp is roughly similar to hartnell, campbell is timonen, but the hawks don't have the lupul/gagne contracts. the hawks are overall in better shape financially so if the flyers can make it work, i'm sure the hawks can as well.

[kujay]

It's possible that I've re-watched Kane's last goal 50 times in the last 18 hours.

 

I was lucky enough to have a little travel take me north today so I could listen to the Score all day in the car. I could've believe it. Absolutely 100%, nonstop hockey talk. Murphy, Mully and Zaidman. All Hawks, and everyone was pumped.

 

I never believed it would happen this fast.

 

I just got home and read back through the last few pages of this thread. Need to read all the articles now.

 

We can disagree here about whether we want Anaheim or Detroit, but I think we can all agree that tonight Anaheim needs to win and force a Game 7. And maybe kneecap Hossa. :wink:

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's possible that I've re-watched Kane's last goal 50 times in the last 18 hours.

 

I'm trying to think of a better backhanded goal that I've seen, and I can't.

 

He picked the corner perfectly, with velocity, going back across the goalie away from the direction he was skating, with a defender on him.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The more I watch it, the more I love his second goal as well.

 

Yes, he was floating, but this is why he can be a quality NHL player at his size:

 

The puck bounces straight to him behind the net, and he *immediately* shoves home the wraparound. Luongo saw him back there, and Kane still got to the side of the net first. It takes incredibly uncommonly quick hands to beat a goalie like Luongo on that play, and it takes great instincts because you can't have any hesitation.

[Soul]

I'd like a screenshot of Luongo's reaction after Kane's wraparound. He threw his head in total disgust -- he couldn't believe it either.

[kujay]

The slight hand fake Kane put on immediately before he went on the backhand to score the third goal was one of the most amazing moves I've ever seen. Completely froze the defenseman.

 

And on his second goal, how awesome was it that the puck bounced right over that bum Willie Mitchell's stick.

 

Half-heartedly watching this ANH-DET game tonight. I hope ANH wins tonight, but I'm still spent from the emotion of last night.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

2-0 Ducks?

[manbearcub]

2-0 Ducks?

yes?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

2-0 Ducks?

yes?

 

Just seems weird.

[cubswin2009]

2-0 Ducks?

yes?

 

Just seems weird.

huh? why?