NHL W. Conference Finals: Red Wings defeat Blackhawks 4-1

[gflore34]

when is detroit going to not be good? it would seem that their farm system sucks and their good players are all old. what is the city of detroit going to do when the wings suck?

 

Their farm system is still top-half.

 

Zetterberg is 29, Franzen is 29, Draper is 28.

 

I'd love for them to be bad, but unfortunately, it's going to be awhile. And they still manage to get free agents to take cheap deals to play with them and try to win a Cup.

 

Isn't the Hawks system in the top ten? What offers me encouragement is the Wings don't have a Toews, Kane, Seabrook or Versteeg someone that young and that good, if they can keep their them together I believe they've got a good chance to surpass the Wings.

 

The Hawks don't currently have a Lidstrom or Rafalski (Keith is close) or Datsyuk, Hossa, or Zetterberg (Havlat and the two kids are close, but Havlat is possibly gone after the season and the other two aren't there yet) either. The Wings do have some strong young talent, though. As I've mentioned, I'm a big fan of Ville Leino. They also have guys like Justin Abdelkader and Darren Helm already contributing in the NHL. Then on defense they have Jakub Kindl and Jonathan Ericsson close to making an impact (or, in Ericsson's case, already in the NHL). The Wings aren't going away from the top of the West any time soon and the Hawks have a long way to go to catch up. As has been mentioned since the start of the season, the Hawks are going to run into contract issues sooner rather than later. It's going to be very interesting to see just how their finances play out over the next 3 or 4 seasons.

 

That doesn't mean anything for the rest of the series though. The Hawks have played two very close games on the road. They can definitely come back and win the next two at home and I would not be surprised to see them do so.

 

The Wings, as great as they are, aren't immune from contract issues either, sure plenty of their players may agreed to cap friendly deals. But, sooner or later, someone is going to go where the money is prestige, etc. be damned.

[Drew Doughty]

when is detroit going to not be good? it would seem that their farm system sucks and their good players are all old. what is the city of detroit going to do when the wings suck?

 

Their farm system is still top-half.

 

Zetterberg is 29, Franzen is 29, Draper is 28.

 

I'd love for them to be bad, but unfortunately, it's going to be awhile. And they still manage to get free agents to take cheap deals to play with them and try to win a Cup.

 

Isn't the Hawks system in the top ten? What offers me encouragement is the Wings don't have a Toews, Kane, Seabrook or Versteeg someone that young and that good, if they can keep their them together I believe they've got a good chance to surpass the Wings.

 

The Hawks don't currently have a Lidstrom or Rafalski (Keith is close) or Datsyuk, Hossa, or Zetterberg (Havlat and the two kids are close, but Havlat is possibly gone after the season and the other two aren't there yet) either. The Wings do have some strong young talent, though. As I've mentioned, I'm a big fan of Ville Leino. They also have guys like Justin Abdelkader and Darren Helm already contributing in the NHL. Then on defense they have Jakub Kindl and Jonathan Ericsson close to making an impact (or, in Ericsson's case, already in the NHL). The Wings aren't going away from the top of the West any time soon and the Hawks have a long way to go to catch up. As has been mentioned since the start of the season, the Hawks are going to run into contract issues sooner rather than later. It's going to be very interesting to see just how their finances play out over the next 3 or 4 seasons.

 

That doesn't mean anything for the rest of the series though. The Hawks have played two very close games on the road. They can definitely come back and win the next two at home and I would not be surprised to see them do so.

 

The Wings, as great as they are, aren't immune from contract issues either, sure plenty of their players may agreed to cap friendly deals. But, sooner or later, someone is going to go where the money is prestige, etc. be damned.

 

Perhaps, but they have the depth to make up for it. Datsyuk is under contract until 2013/14, Filppula until 12/13, Cleary until 12/13, Zetterberg until 20/21, and Franzen until 19/20.

 

eta: Stuart, Kronwall, and Rafalski are under contract until 11/12.

[NewUserName]

Wings will probably lose Samuelson this off-season. Unless he takes way below market value. The longer Hossa takes to resign, the more I think he may not be resigned also. Besides that most of the top tier Wings will probably be there for life. Hossa also makes 7 mill. So if he leaves the money will be there to replace him with close to same value.(maybe Gaborik will do the one year win a cup deal) Lidstrom will probably be the next to go...he also makes 7 million. They have young defencemen and also will be able to sign a top tier FA when Lidstrom does retire. Unless some players have a huge drop off, the Wings will probably be a top tier team for at least 5 more years.

[Soul]

Alright, who at Comcast thinks it's fun for Blackhawk fans to watch the Wings win game 2 over & over again every time they tease for Hawks coverage??

 

You're the Hawks' flagship station. How about acting like it? Geez.

[jaydee]

I keep reading how the wings will just be able to 'replace' guys like Lidstrom when they retire. I understand they have been good for al ong time but that is just an incredibly arrogant statement. He was a generational Dman and you can't replace that. They will have to get most of their replacements as time goes on from free agency, since their prospect pool isn't very deep at all. The hawks on the other hand have some of the best depth in the league in terms of prospects, and I would expect that to continue since Tallon has shown an ability to consistently draft good young talent. Hawks have the extremely talented core hey need (Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Barker) and a steady stream of guys who can fit in (Bolland, Byfuglien, Sweatt, Beach, Aliu etc.) as role players.

 

Yah, Kane and Toews aren't Zetterberg and Datsyuk yet. But Kane is 20. Toews is 21. They will only get better and better.

 

On the prospect angle, hawks signed Beach today:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/hockey/blackhawks/chi-21-blackhawks-bits-chicago-may21,0,3922016.story

 

He should be on the team next year...almost made it this year.

[NewUserName]

I keep reading how the wings will just be able to 'replace' guys like Lidstrom when they retire. I understand they have been good for al ong time but that is just an incredibly arrogant statement. He was a generational Dman and you can't replace that. They will have to get most of their replacements as time goes on from free agency, since their prospect pool isn't very deep at all. The hawks on the other hand have some of the best depth in the league in terms of prospects, and I would expect that to continue since Tallon has shown an ability to consistently draft good young talent. Hawks have the extremely talented core hey need (Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Barker) and a steady stream of guys who can fit in (Bolland, Byfuglien, Sweatt, Beach, Aliu etc.) as role players.

 

Yah, Kane and Toews aren't Zetterberg and Datsyuk yet. But Kane is 20. Toews is 21. They will only get better and better.

 

On the prospect angle, hawks signed Beach today:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/hockey/blackhawks/chi-21-blackhawks-bits-chicago-may21,0,3922016.story

 

He should be on the team next year...almost made it this year.

 

The Wings have not had a highly ranked farm system for 15 years and yet is still produces about as good as anyone elses. Lidstrom is certainly an all time great, but he already taken a step down from where he was several years ago. Even If Lidstrom retires the Wings still have Rafalski, Ericson, Stuart, Kronwall, Lilja, Meech, Kindl and Lebda. Plus it frees up their biggest contract, so signing a player like Bouwmeester would be very reasonable. He is a step down from Lidstrom but Ericsson and Kronwall will still be improving.

 

I think the Hawks still have plenty of places to improve and may pass the Wings, but I dont think the Wings are going to drop down too much in the near future

[Cynosure]

Let's see how the Hawks react to a must win tomorrow... just grab some momentum to take back to Detroit.

[Cynosure]

Oh yea... and the Hawks signed Kyle Beach according to blackhawks.nhl.com

[sneakypower]

Kronwall, Filppula, Helm, Ericsson and Leino have really bright futures. and if they can get Howard or Larsson in there, they're set up well to be dominant for another decade.

[jaydee]

Kronwall, Filppula, Helm, Ericsson and Leino have really bright futures. and if they can get Howard or Larsson in there, they're set up well to be dominant for another decade.

 

that is not the makings of a dominant team. the forwards you listed contain no top 6 guys most likely, although kronwall is a very good player and ericsson is a good stay at home guy on the backend. as long as datsyuk, zetterberg, lidstrom, and to a lesser extent franzen and rafalski are playing at the level they are the wings will be contenders though.

 

the reason the wings have been able to be contenders for so long is they were able to replace their elite players (yzerman, fedorov, konstantinov etc.) with elite players (datsyuk and zetterberg). that is rare and most teams can't do it and fall on rough times after their 'prime' has passed (like the avs right now)

Edited May 21, 2009 by jaydee

[Drew Doughty]

Kronwall, Filppula, Helm, Ericsson and Leino have really bright futures. and if they can get Howard or Larsson in there, they're set up well to be dominant for another decade.

 

that is not the makings of a dominant team. the forwards you listed contain no top 6 guys most likely, although kronwall is a very good player and ericsson is a good stay at home guy on the backend. as long as datsyuk, zetterberg, lidstrom, and to a lesser extent franzen and rafalski are playing at the level they are the wings will be contenders though.

 

Filppula and Leino easily have top 6 potential.

[jaydee]

Kronwall, Filppula, Helm, Ericsson and Leino have really bright futures. and if they can get Howard or Larsson in there, they're set up well to be dominant for another decade.

 

that is not the makings of a dominant team. the forwards you listed contain no top 6 guys most likely, although kronwall is a very good player and ericsson is a good stay at home guy on the backend. as long as datsyuk, zetterberg, lidstrom, and to a lesser extent franzen and rafalski are playing at the level they are the wings will be contenders though.

 

Filppula and Leino easily have top 6 potential.

 

I don't think Filppula is a top 6 guy - Leino could be, but it really depends on how his transition to the NA style pans out. Sometimes older guys brought over can really transition well in the NHL, other times not so much. Should be interesting to see though.

[NewUserName]

http://www.freep.com/article/20090521/BLOG09/90521051/1053/SPORTS05/Wings++Datsyuk+missing+from+practice+Thursday

 

Datsyuk may be out for Fridays game.

[NewUserName]

Kronwall, Filppula, Helm, Ericsson and Leino have really bright futures. and if they can get Howard or Larsson in there, they're set up well to be dominant for another decade.

 

that is not the makings of a dominant team. the forwards you listed contain no top 6 guys most likely, although kronwall is a very good player and ericsson is a good stay at home guy on the backend. as long as datsyuk, zetterberg, lidstrom, and to a lesser extent franzen and rafalski are playing at the level they are the wings will be contenders though.

 

Filppula and Leino easily have top 6 potential.

 

I don't think Filppula is a top 6 guy - Leino could be, but it really depends on how his transition to the NA style pans out. Sometimes older guys brought over can really transition well in the NHL, other times not so much. Should be interesting to see though.

 

Filppula was a top 6 guy last year. He centered the 2nd line. He also centered the Franzen, Hossa line during the Anaheim series for several games.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Patrick Kane is such a fascinating hockey player.

 

On the one hand, he has 12 points in 13 playoff games and the Wings are scared enough of him to make Lidstrom his personal defender.

 

On the other hand, he's got the worst +/- on the team in the playoffs, -8. He's got five power-play points, so that would mean that by my calculations he's had 15 even-strength goals scored against the Hawks while he's on the ice. A couple of those would be empty-netters, though.

[jersey cubs fan]

Patrick Kane is such a fascinating hockey player.

 

On the one hand, he has 12 points in 13 playoff games and the Wings are scared enough of him to make Lidstrom his personal defender.

 

On the other hand, he's got the worst +/- on the team in the playoffs, -8. He's got five power-play points, so that would mean that by my calculations he's had 15 even-strength goals scored against the Hawks while he's on the ice. A couple of those would be empty-netters, though.

 

A few of those goals against were pretty blatantly the fault of careless defenders though.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Patrick Kane is such a fascinating hockey player.

 

On the one hand, he has 12 points in 13 playoff games and the Wings are scared enough of him to make Lidstrom his personal defender.

 

On the other hand, he's got the worst +/- on the team in the playoffs, -8. He's got five power-play points, so that would mean that by my calculations he's had 15 even-strength goals scored against the Hawks while he's on the ice. A couple of those would be empty-netters, though.

 

A few of those goals against were pretty blatantly the fault of careless defenders though.

 

True, but at the same time, Kane was pretty close to Samuelsson when the play started and pretty far behind him when it ended. And I'm pretty sure Kane's the faster skater.

 

But regardless of individual goals, it's just a perpetuation of what's been true for the two years he's been in the league: More goals go in for both teams when he is on the ice.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Hairyducked Idiot

[jersey cubs fan]

But regardless of individual goals, it's just a perpetuation of what's been true his entire career:

 

Yeah, all two years of it.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

But regardless of individual goals, it's just a perpetuation of what's been true his entire career:

 

Yeah, all two years of it.

 

Two years isn't enough sample size to draw a conclusion about what kind of player he is right now?

[jersey cubs fan]

But regardless of individual goals, it's just a perpetuation of what's been true his entire career:

 

Yeah, all two years of it.

 

Two years isn't enough sample size to draw a conclusion about what kind of player he is right now?

 

No, but it's a bit short to use phrases like "entire career". You wouldn't make many conclusions about a 20 year old major leaguer, not sure why you seem so prepared to do so with Kane.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

But regardless of individual goals, it's just a perpetuation of what's been true his entire career:

 

Yeah, all two years of it.

 

Two years isn't enough sample size to draw a conclusion about what kind of player he is right now?

 

No, but it's a bit short to use phrases like "entire career". You wouldn't make many conclusions about a 20 year old major leaguer, not sure why you seem so prepared to do so with Kane.

 

Not at all. You are just reading things that aren't there. "has been true his entire career" is clearly past tense, so I assumed that 'to date' was implied.

 

Kane will get better defensively with time. Right now, he's a liability in that phase of the game, and he makes it up with his offense. He's a guy who makes goals happen both ways, he just makes sure more happens for his team.

 

In a league as conservative as this one, that's interesting to me.

[jaydee]

what was his plus minus in london? or with the u18 program? plus minus is such a useless statistic anyway. kane was -2 in game 2. those goals were both boneheaded moves by hawks dman at the blueline. so he was -2, when really 'his' pl/minus should have been zero. theres nothing he can do when seabrook and campbell turn it over at their own blueline to a defender heading up ice and yet plus minus gives him a -2. Edited May 21, 2009 by jaydee

[Hairyducked Idiot]

what was his plus minus in london? or with the u18 program? plus minus is such a useless statistic anyway. kane was -2 in game 2. those goals were both boneheaded moves by hawks dman at the blueline. so he was -2, when really 'his' pl/minus should have been zero.

 

His +/- in the minos is irrelevant. He outclassed other players by such a wide margin.

 

You can always point to individual goals and say "it wasn't his fault." But that doesn't explain why it happens so often throughout his entire career. It's a simple fact that goals happen more often for both teams when Patrick Kane is on the ice at even strength.

 

He's fantastic offensively and awful defensively. He can't win a battle on the boards to save his life, and his backchecking is weak at best and disinterested at worst.

 

If you take out the empty-netters dragging down his +/-, he's probably about even at even strength, i.e. he's just as bad defensively as he is good offensively. But since you can count on him for 40 points on the PP and he doesn't need to play on the PK, he's still a wonderful player to have.

 

But for some reason, among Hawks fans, it's taboo to mention his defense. It's weird, because it's plain as day. It's like saying Sosa didn't strike out a lot or that Ramirez is injury prone. It doesn't mean they aren't great players, it's just who they are.

[Cynosure]

Jackson/O'halloran tomorrow... oh boy maybe I shouldn't drink so much.

[jersey cubs fan]

I really don't understand using the phrase "entire career" when you are talking about a guy in his 2nd season. It's just overly dramatic, like saying Boston hasn't won a World Series since 2007.