4 Guys 2 Spots

[Cubbies2238]

There are four guys competing for two spots in the Cubs bullpen (Samardzija, Guzman, Gaudin, and Patton). Who are the two you want to see make the opening day roster? Keep in mind Guzman and Gaudin are out of options and Patton was a rule 5 pick so he would be returned unless a trade can get worked out.

[dew1679666265]

I'd say it's Vizcaino instead of Samardzija competing for the spot. I'm pretty sure Samardzija is a certainty to head to AAA and start.

 

Between those four, though, (Vizcaino, Guzman, Gaudin and Patton) I'd like to see Guzman and Gaudin get it. Vizcaino has some worth, but cannot pitch effectively to lefties. If we could move him for something extremely minor, I'd be pretty happy.

 

I'd hate to see Patton go and would like to see us work out a trade for him, but he is 25 and has never pitched above A ball before. The spring training numbers may be a bit deceiving.

 

Guzman has the most talent of any of the pitchers listed and Gaudin has similar career numbers to Vizcaino, but is only 26 this year. He still might have some upside - plus he can start if necessary.

[Tracer Bullet]

might as well keep all this in one spot.

 

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53466

[CubColtPacer]

I'd say it's Vizcaino instead of Samardzija competing for the spot. I'm pretty sure Samardzija is a certainty to head to AAA and start.

 

Between those four, though, (Vizcaino, Guzman, Gaudin and Patton) I'd like to see Guzman and Gaudin get it. Vizcaino has some worth, but cannot pitch effectively to lefties. If we could move him for something extremely minor, I'd be pretty happy.

 

I'd hate to see Patton go and would like to see us work out a trade for him, but he is 25 and has never pitched above A ball before. The spring training numbers may be a bit deceiving.

 

Guzman has the most talent of any of the pitchers listed and Gaudin has similar career numbers to Vizcaino, but is only 26 this year. He still might have some upside - plus he can start if necessary.

 

Counting Vizcaino makes it 5 players for 3 spots. The OP was counting Vizcaino as a guaranteed spot already.

 

I'd try to trade Gaudin and keep Guzman and Patton. Gaudin's upside is only in his starting, and with the fact that Lou has not warmed to him he probably won't be a serious candidate to get starts anytime soon even if there are injuries. That takes away part of his insurance policy value.

 

At the same time, if they want a long reliever, Gaudin is their only decent option. You certainly don't want to waste Heilman in such a little used role and so Gaudin may be needed for those occasional 3-4 inning outings. I'm not a big fan of keeping a specified long man, but Gaudin has to be kept if they want one.

[Guest]

Gaudin's upside is only in his starting, and with the fact that Lou has not warmed to him he probably won't be a serious candidate to get starts anytime soon even if there are injuries.

I think Gaudin's fate was sealed with Lou when he had the mysterious injury that sounded like he was drunk when it occurred.

[cubsfan26]

Vizcaino had a slow start, but he's actually pitched pretty well this spring. With how much money he makes, and the fact he actually pitched pretty well. He's pretty much a lock to make the team right now. It really is down to two spots with four guys fighting for the job. Samardzija does appear to be the long shot, since he has options. So it's really down to Patton, Guzman and Gaudin for two spots. Hendry might try to trade Guzman or Gaudin, or try to make a deal to keep Patton. The decision probably won't be made until Saturday, unless a move is made before then.

[dew1679666265]

I'd say it's Vizcaino instead of Samardzija competing for the spot. I'm pretty sure Samardzija is a certainty to head to AAA and start.

 

Between those four, though, (Vizcaino, Guzman, Gaudin and Patton) I'd like to see Guzman and Gaudin get it. Vizcaino has some worth, but cannot pitch effectively to lefties. If we could move him for something extremely minor, I'd be pretty happy.

 

I'd hate to see Patton go and would like to see us work out a trade for him, but he is 25 and has never pitched above A ball before. The spring training numbers may be a bit deceiving.

 

Guzman has the most talent of any of the pitchers listed and Gaudin has similar career numbers to Vizcaino, but is only 26 this year. He still might have some upside - plus he can start if necessary.

 

Counting Vizcaino makes it 5 players for 3 spots. The OP was counting Vizcaino as a guaranteed spot already.

 

I read the article that I think he's referring to including Samardzija in the discussion and discounting Vizcaino, but everything I've seen has Samardzija as a near-certainty to go to AAA and work as a starter. If you include him instead of Vizcaino, that makes it easier though. Samardzija should be in the minors stretching out and preparing to start.

 

I'd try to trade Gaudin and keep Guzman and Patton. Gaudin's upside is only in his starting, and with the fact that Lou has not warmed to him he probably won't be a serious candidate to get starts anytime soon even if there are injuries. That takes away part of his insurance policy value.

 

At the same time, if they want a long reliever, Gaudin is their only decent option. You certainly don't want to waste Heilman in such a little used role and so Gaudin may be needed for those occasional 3-4 inning outings. I'm not a big fan of keeping a specified long man, but Gaudin has to be kept if they want one.

 

If it's only the three you're discussing there - Guzman, Gaudin and Patton - and Vizcaino has a spot clinched, then I'd say the debate should be around Gaudin and Patton. I like Patton, but think Gaudin has enough value to not just simply cut him. Gaudin has also proven to be an average reliever at the major league level, whereas Patton has never pitched above A ball.

 

That said, if we could deal Gaudin for something decent, then go ahead. I wouldn't deal him away for nothing or cut him, but if a decent deal could be worked out, I'd be for it. Otherwise, I still think a 26 year old with average numbers is a safer bet than a 25 year old who has never gotten out of A ball. I'd be all for a deal that would keep Patton here and allow us to move him to AAA, though, while we figure out what to do with Gaudin - as long as we're not giving up a lot for Patton.

[dew1679666265]

Vizcaino had a slow start, but he's actually pitched pretty well this spring. With how much money he makes, and the fact he actually pitched pretty well. He's pretty much a lock to make the team right now. It really is down to two spots with four guys fighting for the job. Samardzija does appear to be the long shot, since he has options. So it's really down to Patton, Guzman and Gaudin for two spots. Hendry might try to trade Guzman or Gaudin, or try to make a deal to keep Patton. The decision probably won't be made until Saturday, unless a move is made before then.

 

If we're dumping somebody, I'd still prefer it to be Vizcaino rather than Gaudin or Guzman. It all depends on what we get in a deal for Gaudin or Guzman, though. If one of them nets us somebody pretty good, I can live with it. If we're basically cutting them, though, then I'd much rather try to move out Vizcaino.

[cubsfan26]

I think Gaudin's fate was sealed with Lou when he had the mysterious injury that sounded like he was drunk when it occurred.

 

Not really since the Cubs brought Gaudin back, and he was pretty much a lock to make the team until 2-3 weeks ago. But right now mixed with the way he struggled last year, and the fact that he's shown no signs of improving this spring. Now he appears to be in Lou doghouse, and could be the odd man out. Personally I hope Gaudin is on the roster on opening day. He's still a good pitcher to have a around who's struggling now. But once he figures it out he should help the roster.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think Gaudin's fate was sealed with Lou when he had the mysterious injury that sounded like he was drunk when it occurred.

 

Not really since the Cubs brought Gaudin back, and he was pretty much a lock to make the team until 2-3 weeks ago. But right now mixed with the way he struggled last year, and the fact that he's shown no signs of improving this spring. Now he appears to be in Lou doghouse, and could be the odd man out. Personally I hope Gaudin is on the roster on opening day. He's still a good pitcher to have a around who's struggling now. But once he figures it out he should help the roster.

 

Lou doesn't do contracts. The Cubs could have non-tendered Gaudin, but that wouldn't make sense, because he was an asset. But Hendry keeping him around was meaningless with regards to whether or not Lou wants to use him.

[cubsfan26]

Vizcaino had a slow start, but he's actually pitched pretty well this spring. With how much money he makes, and the fact he actually pitched pretty well. He's pretty much a lock to make the team right now. It really is down to two spots with four guys fighting for the job. Samardzija does appear to be the long shot, since he has options. So it's really down to Patton, Guzman and Gaudin for two spots. Hendry might try to trade Guzman or Gaudin, or try to make a deal to keep Patton. The decision probably won't be made until Saturday, unless a move is made before then.

 

If we're dumping somebody, I'd still prefer it to be Vizcaino rather than Gaudin or Guzman. It all depends on what we get in a deal for Gaudin or Guzman, though. If one of them nets us somebody pretty good, I can live with it. If we're basically cutting them, though, then I'd much rather try to move out Vizcaino.

 

 

Yes but dumping Vizcaino cost double as dumping Gaudin, and Vizcaino has pitched good enough to make the roster. Plus I still think Vizcaino can be a valueable piece to the pen, when facing mostly RH hitters in close games. While Gaudin really hasn't pitch good since mid August. Personally I hope Gaudin and Guzman are both on the team on opening day. Patton is interesting, but I think Guzman will be better once he gets out of Arizona(didn't pitch all that great in 07 spring either). Gaudin is struggling right now, but I think he can get it figured out at some point. His track record would say he's a pretty solid reliever or back end starter. So it would hurt to lose Gaudin, when we expected to have him as insurance for Harden this season.

[dew1679666265]

Vizcaino had a slow start, but he's actually pitched pretty well this spring. With how much money he makes, and the fact he actually pitched pretty well. He's pretty much a lock to make the team right now. It really is down to two spots with four guys fighting for the job. Samardzija does appear to be the long shot, since he has options. So it's really down to Patton, Guzman and Gaudin for two spots. Hendry might try to trade Guzman or Gaudin, or try to make a deal to keep Patton. The decision probably won't be made until Saturday, unless a move is made before then.

 

If we're dumping somebody, I'd still prefer it to be Vizcaino rather than Gaudin or Guzman. It all depends on what we get in a deal for Gaudin or Guzman, though. If one of them nets us somebody pretty good, I can live with it. If we're basically cutting them, though, then I'd much rather try to move out Vizcaino.

 

 

Yes but dumping Vizcaino cost double as dumping Gaudin, and Vizcaino has pitched good enough to make the roster. Plus I still think Vizcaino can be a valueable piece to the pen, when facing mostly RH hitters in close games. While Gaudin really hasn't pitch good since mid August. Personally I hope Gaudin and Guzman are both on the team on opening day. Patton is interesting, but I think Guzman will be better once he gets out of Arizona(didn't pitch all that great in 07 spring either). Gaudin is struggling right now, but I think he can get it figured out at some point. His track record would say he's a pretty solid reliever or back end starter. So it would hurt to lose Gaudin, when we expected to have him as insurance for Harden this season.

 

We're paying the same amount to Vizcaino whether we keep him or dump him. The main reason I'd keep Gaudin if we couldn't get anything for him is because he'll likely put up similar numbers to Vizcaino, but he's about 5-7 years younger than Vizcaino. There's upside with Gaudin that he might improve, there is none with Vizcaino. If both can be expected to be similar guys this year and we have some possibility of improvement for Gaudin, I think the most prudent move is to dump Vizcaino.

 

Now, obviously, Gaudin and Guzman have more upside and value, so if we can actually get someone in a trade who has decent value, that might be a better option than just dumping Vizcaino. I suspect, however, that none of them will net much, so I'd prefer to part ways with the player with the least upside.

[Little Slide Rooter]

My question is why does Chad Fox not get consideration? What was the point of digging off the scrap heap for a 3rd time, if he had no chance of making the team? Im assuming that it was only in case some of the other options looked horrible, but guess what, Gaudin and Guzman have looked horrible. And guess what else-weve been waiting 6 years gor Gooz to step up as a star, and it aint going to happen. What makes him any different then our past "cant miss" prospects of the past? Yeah, hes shown some flashes of brilliance, but so has every pitcher to spend time on a big league roster, or they never would have made it that far to begin with. Its time to cut the chord.

 

The good thing about Fox, I guess is that he's more likely to accept a minor league assignment and wait for someone else to crash and burnOf course, his arm is just as likely to fall off, but so is Goozes.

[Illini Iceman]

My question is why does Chad Fox not get consideration? What was the point of digging off the scrap heap for a 3rd time, if he had no chance of making the team? Im assuming that it was only in case some of the other options looked horrible, but guess what, Gaudin and Guzman have looked horrible. And guess what else-weve been waiting 6 years gor Gooz to step up as a star, and it aint going to happen. What makes him any different then our past "cant miss" prospects of the past? Yeah, hes shown some flashes of brilliance, but so has every pitcher to spend time on a big league roster, or they never would have made it that far to begin with. Its time to cut the chord.

 

The good thing about Fox, I guess is that he's more likely to accept a minor league assignment and wait for someone else to crash and burnOf course, his arm is just as likely to fall off, but so is Goozes.

 

My guess is that Hendry invited him to camp as a favor so he could showcase to other teams if he still had anything left. I don't think the Cubs planned on putting him on the roster except as a complete last resort. I would think if he pitches well in AAA and another team shows interest in adding him to their big league roster Hendry will release him to join that team or trade him for cash considerations or something like that. Hendry seem to like to do this good will type of stuff and it probably helps his reputation among players.

[jersey cubs fan]

The title of this thread would make for a horrible online video.

[Roast]

The title of this thread would make for a horrible online video.

:-s :-#

[soapy]

The title of this thread would make for a horrible online video.

 

yeah, my first thought after seeing it was, "That's what she said".

 

Anyway, it sounds like it's basically between Patton, Guzman and Gaudin. As dew (I think) said, I'd trade Gaudin if something of value can be had, but I wouldn't just dump him. He's got value as a middle reliever and spot starter that the other two likely don't.

 

I'd be extremely hesitant to dump Gaudin for a guy who has never pitched above A ball and wasn't exactly dominant there in 07 and 08, though he did have a nice k/bb ratio.

[El Rojito]

My question is why does Chad Fox not get consideration? What was the point of digging off the scrap heap for a 3rd time, if he had no chance of making the team? Im assuming that it was only in case some of the other options looked horrible, but guess what, Gaudin and Guzman have looked horrible. And guess what else-weve been waiting 6 years gor Gooz to step up as a star, and it aint going to happen. What makes him any different then our past "cant miss" prospects of the past? Yeah, hes shown some flashes of brilliance, but so has every pitcher to spend time on a big league roster, or they never would have made it that far to begin with. Its time to cut the chord.

 

The good thing about Fox, I guess is that he's more likely to accept a minor league assignment and wait for someone else to crash and burnOf course, his arm is just as likely to fall off, but so is Goozes.

The main thing is that Fox can be sent to AAA. Guzman is out of options, and there's no way he'd clear waivers. Furthermore, he's still just coming back from TJS. Considering how talented he is, it's worth keeping him around if you have the space for him.

 

Considering how awful Gaudin looked at the end of last year and how terrible he's pitched this Spring Training, I'm hoping the Cubs can find a trading partner for him, send Samardjiza and Fox down to AAA, and keep Guzman and Patton.

[CUBZ99]

My question is why does Chad Fox not get consideration? What was the point of digging off the scrap heap for a 3rd time, if he had no chance of making the team? Im assuming that it was only in case some of the other options looked horrible, but guess what, Gaudin and Guzman have looked horrible. And guess what else-weve been waiting 6 years gor Gooz to step up as a star, and it aint going to happen. What makes him any different then our past "cant miss" prospects of the past? Yeah, hes shown some flashes of brilliance, but so has every pitcher to spend time on a big league roster, or they never would have made it that far to begin with. Its time to cut the chord.

 

The good thing about Fox, I guess is that he's more likely to accept a minor league assignment and wait for someone else to crash and burnOf course, his arm is just as likely to fall off, but so is Goozes.

The main thing is that Fox can be sent to AAA. Guzman is out of options, and there's no way he'd clear waivers. Furthermore, he's still just coming back from TJS. Considering how talented he is, it's worth keeping him around if you have the space for him.

 

Considering how awful Gaudin looked at the end of last year and how terrible he's pitched this Spring Training, I'm hoping the Cubs can find a trading partner for him, send Samardjiza and Fox down to AAA, and keep Guzman and Patton.

 

I'm hoping that they give Patton a shot or work out a trade to keep him. I realize he hasn't pitched above high-A ball, but he has a good arm and has taken full advantage of his opportunity. Gaudin doesn't inspire any confidence with his career 1.52 WHIP. Fortunately, the Cubs are decently stacked in Iowa for the bullpen. If Gaudin is traded or released, Shark can be called up or Fox.

[goonys evil twin]

The title of this thread would make for a horrible online video.

 

I think I've seen that video.

[dew1679666265]

The title of this thread would make for a horrible online video.

 

I think I've seen that video.

 

Talking to yourself again?

[Guest]

:scratch:

[Roast]

The title of this thread would make for a horrible online video.

 

I think I've seen that video.

:-))

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

I'm hoping that they give Patton a shot or work out a trade to keep him. I realize he hasn't pitched above high-A ball, but he has a good arm and has taken full advantage of his opportunity. Gaudin doesn't inspire any confidence with his career 1.52 WHIP. Fortunately, the Cubs are decently stacked in Iowa for the bullpen. If Gaudin is traded or released, Shark can be called up or Fox.

 

Working out a trade with the Rockies still wouldn'tnecessarily let us keep Patton. Before he can be sent down, he has to be placed on waivers where any other team would have a chance to claim him with the same rule five restrictions the Cubs have him with. If no one wants him then, the Cubs could work out a deal with the Rockies and send him down.

 

My guess is that there are some teams that would claim him and try to keep him all year based on his spring performance.

[ctcf]

How much longer can Lou really wait before making the decision?