Re: XM 175 - Orlando Hudson to the Dodgers....

[Backtobanks]

I guess it's a win win then. If he doesnt meet the incentives, they only pay him 3.4 mil. If he does end up meeting all of the incentives, the have to pay him sinificantly more, but It will have been worth it.

 

Personally, I think all contracts should be incentive laden. Im sure the Dodgers, of all teams would agree with that.

Come on. It's OK, you don't have to like the Miles signing. You also don't have to reach for assumptions to display your distaste of it. How is it an automatic that "it would have been worth it?" The Dodgers invested alot of money in that middle infield and they have more questions than certainties with them for the money paid. Back injuries tend not to help players and a little guy with marginal power doesn't help himself with a wrist injury (at least in the first year after injury).

 

Sure, there's a chance that both have big years, but there are enough questions about them to at least not fawn over their signings as if it was something masterful. $8 mil and a first round pick for one year of Hudson is not great.

 

I dont hate the Miles signing. It just is what it is. A backup/platoon middle infielder. Im just saying that if we could have gotten something better for a reasonable price, we should have.

 

Every year people have to jump all over 1 player as being an overpaid contract (i.e. Marquis, J. Jones, etc.). It looks like Miles is this year's pick. I agree with you that we have more important issues to discuss than the contract of a backup/platoon middle infielder. Also, I have posted before that you have to take into account when the contracts were signed. Someone like Abreu would have been signed in December if he would have accepted $5 million then.

[Little Slide Rooter]

In Miles case, I dont think it's a case of being overpaid. In years past, 2.1 mil would be a bargain for a player like Miles. Its more about patience. If Hendry waited a bit longer, he could have gotten a better player and not spent too much more money.

 

Even if you look at Omar Vizquel. Granted, last year his offensive numbers were nothing short of dismal. However, hes still one of the best defensive shortstops in the game, probably of our generation. Yet he signs a minor league deal. While Orlando Cabrera is not a superstar, I would rather have him for 3 million than miles at 2.1 million. Hendrys problem is he seems to impulse buy. He knows what he wants, and he immediatly goes after it, not bothering to wait or bargain shop.

[dew1679666265]

Also, I have posted before that you have to take into account when the contracts were signed. Someone like Abreu would have been signed in December if he would have accepted $5 million then.

 

I've asked you this before and you haven't responded to me, but what is it about Aaron Miles that made him a necessity to sign when we did?

 

There are numerous other options who were on the market at the time getting very little interest at the time we signed Miles and are still on the market (getting minor league deals and cheaper contracts than Miles) who have similar or better stats than Miles.

 

So what is it about Aaron Miles specifically that made it important we sign a backup middle infielder quickly when there were numerous other options out there?

[Illini Iceman]

Also, I have posted before that you have to take into account when the contracts were signed. Someone like Abreu would have been signed in December if he would have accepted $5 million then.

 

I've asked you this before and you haven't responded to me, but what is it about Aaron Miles that made him a necessity to sign when we did?

 

There are numerous other options who were on the market at the time getting very little interest at the time we signed Miles and are still on the market (getting minor league deals and cheaper contracts than Miles) who have similar or better stats than Miles.

 

So what is it about Aaron Miles specifically that made it important we sign a backup middle infielder quickly when there were numerous other options out there?

 

Hendry obviously liked him and wanted to have him locked up before he moved DeRosa which then allowed him to sign Bradley.

 

If you don't agree with Hendry about how much he likes Miles as a player that is fine, but the timing makes sense. He probably couldn't sign Bradley until he cleared the Marquis and DeRosa salary and he didn't want to wait on that and have someone swoop in and sign Bradley since he was the "must have" guy for Hendry this offseason. He thought Fontenot / Miles was the best option for replacing DeRosa's production and didn't want to make the DeRosa move and not have his replacement plan in place. Rumors at the time were that there were some other clubs interested in Miles at about the same price range so if he waited on that he might not get him.

 

Again, the backround issue here is whether or not you agree that Miles was the guy to get. However, if you just go by the given that Hendry felt that he was then his timing made sense all things considered.

[dew1679666265]

Also, I have posted before that you have to take into account when the contracts were signed. Someone like Abreu would have been signed in December if he would have accepted $5 million then.

 

I've asked you this before and you haven't responded to me, but what is it about Aaron Miles that made him a necessity to sign when we did?

 

There are numerous other options who were on the market at the time getting very little interest at the time we signed Miles and are still on the market (getting minor league deals and cheaper contracts than Miles) who have similar or better stats than Miles.

 

So what is it about Aaron Miles specifically that made it important we sign a backup middle infielder quickly when there were numerous other options out there?

 

Hendry obviously liked him and wanted to have him locked up before he moved DeRosa which then allowed him to sign Bradley.

 

If you don't agree with Hendry about how much he likes Miles as a player that is fine, but the timing makes sense. He probably couldn't sign Bradley until he cleared the Marquis and DeRosa salary and he didn't want to wait on that and have someone swoop in and sign Bradley since he was the "must have" guy for Hendry this offseason. He thought Fontenot / Miles was the best option for replacing DeRosa's production and didn't want to make the DeRosa move and not have his replacement plan in place. Rumors at the time were that there were some other clubs interested in Miles at about the same price range so if he waited on that he might not get him.

 

Again, the backround issue here is whether or not you agree that Miles was the guy to get. However, if you just go by the given that Hendry felt that he was then his timing made sense all things considered.

 

I agree that if Miles was Hendry's only target, then the timing was fine. Had we not signed him then, we wouldn't have signed him.

 

The question is, though, what is it about Miles that makes him so much more valuable than other guys with similar/better stats who were available at the time and still are now? Obviously Hendry valued him highly when he signed him and Backtobanks is defending the signing by saying we couldn't wait any longer for a backup middle infielder. I'm asking why we couldn't.

 

Rushing to sign Dempster and Bradley are perfectly fine moves - they are very valuable pieces of this team and are not easily replaced. Miles is pretty easily replaced, so I don't understand the rush to sign him.

[The Other 15]

In Miles case, I dont think it's a case of being overpaid. In years past, 2.1 mil would be a bargain for a player like Miles. Its more about patience. If Hendry waited a bit longer, he could have gotten a better player and not spent too much more money.

 

Even if you look at Omar Vizquel. Granted, last year his offensive numbers were nothing short of dismal. However, hes still one of the best defensive shortstops in the game, probably of our generation. Yet he signs a minor league deal. While Orlando Cabrera is not a superstar, I would rather have him for 3 million than miles at 2.1 million. Hendrys problem is he seems to impulse buy. He knows what he wants, and he immediatly goes after it, not bothering to wait or bargain shop.

I don't completely disagree, but you're not taking into account that they were not looking to sign someone to play 2B. I think they feel it's Fonts job to lose and went with Miles who would be a fallback option if all fails and a utility guy if all goes well. You don't sign Cabrera or Hudson to that role no matter how patient you are because they are not looking for that role. Now, if you want to argue Hendry could have gotten same for less money with another player who fits what Miles will do, fine. But Hudson and Cabrera are unrelated to the Miles signing.

 

I won't accuse you of using convenience of hindsight to make your point, but please don't tell me you expected both Hudson and Cabrera to have this much difficulty finding contracts.

 

The question is, though, what is it about Miles that makes him so much more valuable than other guys with similar/better stats who were available at the time and still are now?

Good question. Probaby the same thing he saw in DeRosa (another unpopular move economically at the time). I think he was looking for a specific role and identified Miles early. He moved within his budget and left less question marks for himself before he got to the heavy lifting of this offseason (Bradley).

[dew1679666265]

The question is, though, what is it about Miles that makes him so much more valuable than other guys with similar/better stats who were available at the time and still are now?

Good question. Probaby the same thing he saw in DeRosa (another unpopular move economically at the time). I think he was looking for a specific role and identified Miles early. He moved within his budget and left less question marks for himself before he got to the heavy lifting of this offseason (Bradley).

 

After I looked into the DeRosa signing, I liked it - I don't see anything in Miles that I saw in DeRosa to make me think Miles can be all that productive.

 

And you're probably right that he identified a role and filled it - but that's the problem I have with the move, he appeared to lock into one mediocre target and jumped without considering the slow-as-molasses movement of the market at the time and the similar/superior players available and not getting much interest.

[17 Seconds]

I guess it's a win win then. If he doesnt meet the incentives, they only pay him 3.4 mil. If he does end up meeting all of the incentives, the have to pay him sinificantly more, but It will have been worth it.

 

Personally, I think all contracts should be incentive laden. Im sure the Dodgers, of all teams would agree with that.

Come on. It's OK, you don't have to like the Miles signing. You also don't have to reach for assumptions to display your distaste of it. How is it an automatic that "it would have been worth it?" The Dodgers invested alot of money in that middle infield and they have more questions than certainties with them for the money paid. Back injuries tend not to help players and a little guy with marginal power doesn't help himself with a wrist injury (at least in the first year after injury).

 

Sure, there's a chance that both have big years, but there are enough questions about them to at least not fawn over their signings as if it was something masterful. $8 mil and a first round pick for one year of Hudson is not great.

 

I dont hate the Miles signing. It just is what it is. A backup/platoon middle infielder. Im just saying that if we could have gotten something better for a reasonable price, we should have.

 

Every year people have to jump all over 1 player as being an overpaid contract (i.e. Marquis, J. Jones, etc.)

 

People said those players were overpaid because they were overpaid

[The Other 15]

The question is, though, what is it about Miles that makes him so much more valuable than other guys with similar/better stats who were available at the time and still are now?

Good question. Probaby the same thing he saw in DeRosa (another unpopular move economically at the time). I think he was looking for a specific role and identified Miles early. He moved within his budget and left less question marks for himself before he got to the heavy lifting of this offseason (Bradley).

 

After I looked into the DeRosa signing, I liked it - I don't see anything in Miles that I saw in DeRosa to make me think Miles can be all that productive.

 

And you're probably right that he identified a role and filled it - but that's the problem I have with the move, he appeared to lock into one mediocre target and jumped without considering the slow-as-molasses movement of the market at the time and the similar/superior players available and not getting much interest.

So Miles is overpaid by a few hundred thousand. Not the end of the world. As a utility player, he's not as bad as people make him out to be. If we agree that they were never in the market for Hudson at 2B fulltime or Cabrera at SS fulltime, and that those two wouldn't settle for that role, who are the utility guys that Hendry missed on that were superior? Everyone has flaws from age, defense, performance, flexability, health and just about anything else. Counsell, Vizquel, Aurelia, Nomar, Vidro, Duhram, Grudz?

 

I'm not saying signing Miles was the only option, just that it was not the most irresponsible one like some make it out to be.

[dew1679666265]

The question is, though, what is it about Miles that makes him so much more valuable than other guys with similar/better stats who were available at the time and still are now?

Good question. Probaby the same thing he saw in DeRosa (another unpopular move economically at the time). I think he was looking for a specific role and identified Miles early. He moved within his budget and left less question marks for himself before he got to the heavy lifting of this offseason (Bradley).

 

After I looked into the DeRosa signing, I liked it - I don't see anything in Miles that I saw in DeRosa to make me think Miles can be all that productive.

 

And you're probably right that he identified a role and filled it - but that's the problem I have with the move, he appeared to lock into one mediocre target and jumped without considering the slow-as-molasses movement of the market at the time and the similar/superior players available and not getting much interest.

So Miles is overpaid by a few hundred thousand. Not the end of the world. As a utility player, he's not as bad as people make him out to be. If we agree that they were never in the market for Hudson at 2B fulltime or Cabrera at SS fulltime, and that those two wouldn't settle for that role, who are the utility guys that Hendry missed on that were superior? Everyone has flaws from age, defense, performance, flexability, health and just about anything else. Counsell, Vizquel, Aurelia, Nomar, Vidro, Duhram, Grudz?

 

I'm not saying signing Miles was the only option, just that it was not the most irresponsible one like some make it out to be.

 

It wasn't horribly irresponsible, but it was still poor. For a cash strapped team (which we are this year), 1-1.5 million can be a fairly big deal. The extra year was terrible as well.

 

With all the outfielders we have, I would have greatly preferred a Mark Grudzielanek, Orlando Hudson or Orlando Cabrera over Miles. Plus, Miles plays terrible outfield defense. How much more versatile is he than they are? He can play third, but his offense replacing Aramis for any length of time horrifies me.

[The Other 15]

The question is, though, what is it about Miles that makes him so much more valuable than other guys with similar/better stats who were available at the time and still are now?

Good question. Probaby the same thing he saw in DeRosa (another unpopular move economically at the time). I think he was looking for a specific role and identified Miles early. He moved within his budget and left less question marks for himself before he got to the heavy lifting of this offseason (Bradley).

 

After I looked into the DeRosa signing, I liked it - I don't see anything in Miles that I saw in DeRosa to make me think Miles can be all that productive.

 

And you're probably right that he identified a role and filled it - but that's the problem I have with the move, he appeared to lock into one mediocre target and jumped without considering the slow-as-molasses movement of the market at the time and the similar/superior players available and not getting much interest.

So Miles is overpaid by a few hundred thousand. Not the end of the world. As a utility player, he's not as bad as people make him out to be. If we agree that they were never in the market for Hudson at 2B fulltime or Cabrera at SS fulltime, and that those two wouldn't settle for that role, who are the utility guys that Hendry missed on that were superior? Everyone has flaws from age, defense, performance, flexability, health and just about anything else. Counsell, Vizquel, Aurelia, Nomar, Vidro, Duhram, Grudz?

 

I'm not saying signing Miles was the only option, just that it was not the most irresponsible one like some make it out to be.

 

It wasn't horribly irresponsible, but it was still poor. For a cash strapped team (which we are this year), 1-1.5 million can be a fairly big deal. The extra year was terrible as well.

 

With all the outfielders we have, I would have greatly preferred a Mark Grudzielanek, Orlando Hudson or Orlando Cabrera over Miles. Plus, Miles plays terrible outfield defense. How much more versatile is he than they are? He can play third, but his offense replacing Aramis for any length of time horrifies me.

We're nowhere close to the same parameters if you still believe that Hudson and Cabrera were ever options. Just because both players misunderstood the market and got left behind doesn't mean that Hendry should have waited on them. He had his SS and 2B (still believes he does) and his priorities were trying to make room in the payroll to resign Demp and add a LH presence for the middle of the order. Since DeRo was the odd man out, picking up Miles at half the money was feasible.

[Backtobanks]

Also, I have posted before that you have to take into account when the contracts were signed. Someone like Abreu would have been signed in December if he would have accepted $5 million then.

 

I've asked you this before and you haven't responded to me, but what is it about Aaron Miles that made him a necessity to sign when we did?

 

There are numerous other options who were on the market at the time getting very little interest at the time we signed Miles and are still on the market (getting minor league deals and cheaper contracts than Miles) who have similar or better stats than Miles.

 

So what is it about Aaron Miles specifically that made it important we sign a backup middle infielder quickly when there were numerous other options out there?

 

Sorry I didn't get back to you, but I agree with the other poster. Obviously Hendry wanted Miles (for whatever reason) and paid him the going rate at the time. You may not agree with Hendry on Miles, his ability, his contract, or the timing, but apparently Hendry decided he was the best option to fill the role at that price and at that time. As West Side Roter pointed out, Hendry is an impulse buyer. Sometimes he makes good decisions and sometimes bad, so I guess we'll have to see how this turns out. As for my defense of Hendry, it's more a case of being the devil's advocate because there are so many people that criticize every move he makes or doesn't make.

[dew1679666265]

We're nowhere close to the same parameters if you still believe that Hudson and Cabrera were ever options. Just because both players misunderstood the market and got left behind doesn't mean that Hendry should have waited on them. He had his SS and 2B (still believes he does) and his priorities were trying to make room in the payroll to resign Demp and add a LH presence for the middle of the order. Since DeRo was the odd man out, picking up Miles at half the money was feasible.

 

You don't wait specifically for them, but you also don't rush just to sign Aaron Miles. The market was shaping up to be slow at the time - meaning it was a perfect time to sit back and wait on potential bargains (Grudz for instance) rather than jumping at a very mediocre player at a spot that is easily filled. As for Hudson and Cabrera, I don't think you wait specifically for them, but the fact that they were still here this much later is a reason for not rushing to sign a very mediocre player. Bargains will appear in slow markets. Hendry, for as many good bargains as he's found in the past, didn't plan well for this one.

 

And feasible isn't the same as good. And I still don't understand the second year when comparable players signed for one.

[dew1679666265]

Also, I have posted before that you have to take into account when the contracts were signed. Someone like Abreu would have been signed in December if he would have accepted $5 million then.

 

I've asked you this before and you haven't responded to me, but what is it about Aaron Miles that made him a necessity to sign when we did?

 

There are numerous other options who were on the market at the time getting very little interest at the time we signed Miles and are still on the market (getting minor league deals and cheaper contracts than Miles) who have similar or better stats than Miles.

 

So what is it about Aaron Miles specifically that made it important we sign a backup middle infielder quickly when there were numerous other options out there?

 

Sorry I didn't get back to you, but I agree with the other poster. Obviously Hendry wanted Miles (for whatever reason) and paid him the going rate at the time. You may not agree with Hendry on Miles, his ability, his contract, or the timing, but apparently Hendry decided he was the best option to fill the role at that price and at that time. As West Side Roter pointed out, Hendry is an impulse buyer. Sometimes he makes good decisions and sometimes bad, so I guess we'll have to see how this turns out. As for my defense of Hendry, it's more a case of being the devil's advocate because there are so many people that criticize every move he makes or doesn't make.

 

The problem is, there's just not much good defense for the Miles signing. I understand the devil's advocate stance and the defense of Hendry, as I'm often on that side of the coin. I just am frustrated that Hendry jumped at such a replaceable player as Miles. He's a big part of why our bench is so much worse than last year.

 

And I agree that obviously Hendry felt Miles was the best option at that price and time, but I really don't understand why he thought this. He may prove me wrong, but it seemed very, very obvious to me that Miles was not the way to go.

[The Other 15]

We're nowhere close to the same parameters if you still believe that Hudson and Cabrera were ever options. Just because both players misunderstood the market and got left behind doesn't mean that Hendry should have waited on them. He had his SS and 2B (still believes he does) and his priorities were trying to make room in the payroll to resign Demp and add a LH presence for the middle of the order. Since DeRo was the odd man out, picking up Miles at half the money was feasible.

 

You don't wait specifically for them, but you also don't rush just to sign Aaron Miles. The market was shaping up to be slow at the time - meaning it was a perfect time to sit back and wait on potential bargains (Grudz for instance) rather than jumping at a very mediocre player at a spot that is easily filled. As for Hudson and Cabrera, I don't think you wait specifically for them, but the fact that they were still here this much later is a reason for not rushing to sign a very mediocre player. Bargains will appear in slow markets. Hendry, for as many good bargains as he's found in the past, didn't plan well for this one.

 

And feasible isn't the same as good. And I still don't understand the second year when comparable players signed for one.

Grudz will likely retire anyways if he doesn't get something close to Miles' 2009 money and since he's just a much older, more limited version of Miles, I don't agree with you on why he'd be better. But it's not important that we agree.

 

The fact remains that there were not (and still are not) the kind of players available who can be asked to play 2B, SS, 3B and some OF at times than Miles. Henedy may have overpaid, but he got the guy he targeted and paid what was affordable to him at the time.

 

I'm not interested on continuing this merry-go-round about how he should have waited. It's conveniently revisionist. As message board debaters we can afford to be as such. GM's have much more at stake than some pseudo intellectual message board debates about salary. They pay what they set their budgets to be. Mile obviously fits and now, much like DeRosa, it will be time to judge it on performance.

[dew1679666265]

Grudz will likely retire anyways if he doesn't get something close to Miles' 2009 money and since he's just a much older, more limited version of Miles, I don't agree with you on why he'd be better. But it's not important that we agree.

 

The fact remains that there were not (and still are not) the kind of players available who can be asked to play 2B, SS, 3B and some OF at times than Miles. Henedy may have overpaid, but he got the guy he targeted and paid what was affordable to him at the time.

 

Just throwing it out there:

Mark Grudzielanek has posted a .760 OPS in his career against lefties. That's with a .348 OBP (.297 BA).

Ramon Martinez has posted a .740 OPS in his career against lefties. That's with a .345 OBP (.275 BA).

Both are currently still free agents.

 

Chris Burke has posted a .748 OPS in his career against lefties. That's with a .347 OBP (.274 BA).

Mark Loretta has posted an .806 OPS in his career against lefties. That's with a .393 OBP (.307 BA).

Burke signed a minor league deal with the Padres and Loretta is playing this year with the Dodgers for 1 yr/ $1.25 million.

 

They all get on base at close to the same rate as Miles (.284 BA and .352 OBP) against lefties (Loretta far better) and all were cheaper than Miles.

 

Martinez and Loretta has played extremely minimal outfield, but plays 3B, SS and 2B. Grudz plays 2B. Burke has played every position Miles has.

 

I'm not interested on continuing this merry-go-round about how he should have waited. It's conveniently revisionist. As message board debaters we can afford to be as such. GM's have much more at stake than some pseudo intellectual message board debates about salary. They pay what they set their budgets to be. Mile obviously fits and now, much like DeRosa, it will be time to judge it on performance.

 

It would be revisionist if I had thought the Miles signing was well-timed from the start, but I didn't. I didn't think he should be signed at all, but if so, I didn't understand why we did it so quickly. And I'm not trying to act "pseudo-intellectual," I'm trying to understand what Hendry sees in Aaron Miles.

 

And it probably is time to wrap this up. Don't want to piss off the rest of the board any more than we have, eh? :wink:

[The Other 15]

Grudz will likely retire anyways if he doesn't get something close to Miles' 2009 money and since he's just a much older, more limited version of Miles, I don't agree with you on why he'd be better. But it's not important that we agree.

 

The fact remains that there were not (and still are not) the kind of players available who can be asked to play 2B, SS, 3B and some OF at times than Miles. Henedy may have overpaid, but he got the guy he targeted and paid what was affordable to him at the time.

 

Just throwing it out there:

Mark Grudzielanek has posted a .760 OPS in his career against lefties. That's with a .348 OBP (.297 BA).

Ramon Martinez has posted a .740 OPS in his career against lefties. That's with a .345 OBP (.275 BA).

Both are currently still free agents.

 

Chris Burke has posted a .748 OPS in his career against lefties. That's with a .347 OBP (.274 BA).

Mark Loretta has posted an .806 OPS in his career against lefties. That's with a .393 OBP (.307 BA).

Burke signed a minor league deal with the Padres and Loretta is playing this year with the Dodgers for 1 yr/ $1.25 million.

 

They all get on base at close to the same rate as Miles (.284 BA and .352 OBP) against lefties (Loretta far better) and all were cheaper than Miles.

 

Martinez and Loretta has played extremely minimal outfield, but plays 3B, SS and 2B. Grudz plays 2B. Burke has played every position Miles has.

 

I'm not interested on continuing this merry-go-round about how he should have waited. It's conveniently revisionist. As message board debaters we can afford to be as such. GM's have much more at stake than some pseudo intellectual message board debates about salary. They pay what they set their budgets to be. Mile obviously fits and now, much like DeRosa, it will be time to judge it on performance.

 

It would be revisionist if I had thought the Miles signing was well-timed from the start, but I didn't. I didn't think he should be signed at all, but if so, I didn't understand why we did it so quickly. And I'm not trying to act "pseudo-intellectual," I'm trying to understand what Hendry sees in Aaron Miles.

 

And it probably is time to wrap this up. Don't want to piss off the rest of the board any more than we have, eh? :wink:

Jus tot be clear. I'm not calling you a pseudo intellectual, just calling out the general theme of every message board thread. We've seen differences of .03 in win shares debated etc. You won't get what Hendry sees from anyone here so I suggest watching and observing with an open mind. From your posts today and in the past, you seem to do that anyways. In closing, yes, there were other ways to go. Debatably better/cheaper/or not, but he chose this way. I suppose I would be more adamantly against this signing if I saw it as the worst move like everyone else seems to see it or if I saw it as an obstacle for real difference makers. I just don't.

[dew1679666265]

Jus tot be clear. I'm not calling you a pseudo intellectual, just calling out the general theme of every message board thread. We've seen differences of .03 in win shares debated etc. You won't get what Hendry sees from anyone here so I suggest watching and observing with an open mind. From your posts today and in the past, you seem to do that anyways. In closing, yes, there were other ways to go. Debatably better/cheaper/or not, but he chose this way. I suppose I would be more adamantly against this signing if I saw it as the worst move like everyone else seems to see it or if I saw it as an obstacle for real difference makers. I just don't.

 

Why not debate .03 differences in Win Shares? There hasn't been much to get excited about this offseason. :D

 

My ultimate problem with the move is that I tie it closely to the DeRo trade that I thought (and still think) was so bad. Miles' spot on the bench used to be DeRo's (and Fontenot) and that downgrade bugs me. It's not a killer though, so hopefully something good will come of it.

[The Other 15]

Jus tot be clear. I'm not calling you a pseudo intellectual, just calling out the general theme of every message board thread. We've seen differences of .03 in win shares debated etc. You won't get what Hendry sees from anyone here so I suggest watching and observing with an open mind. From your posts today and in the past, you seem to do that anyways. In closing, yes, there were other ways to go. Debatably better/cheaper/or not, but he chose this way. I suppose I would be more adamantly against this signing if I saw it as the worst move like everyone else seems to see it or if I saw it as an obstacle for real difference makers. I just don't.

 

Why not debate .03 differences in Win Shares? There hasn't been much to get excited about this offseason. :D

 

My ultimate problem with the move is that I tie it closely to the DeRo trade that I thought (and still think) was so bad. Miles' spot on the bench used to be DeRo's (and Fontenot) and that downgrade bugs me. It's not a killer though, so hopefully something good will come of it.

It's unfairly tied to the DeRo trade by many. It's not at all the preference to have Miles over DeRo, just the preference to resign Demp and get Bradley. Hendry has said as much.

[dew1679666265]

Jus tot be clear. I'm not calling you a pseudo intellectual, just calling out the general theme of every message board thread. We've seen differences of .03 in win shares debated etc. You won't get what Hendry sees from anyone here so I suggest watching and observing with an open mind. From your posts today and in the past, you seem to do that anyways. In closing, yes, there were other ways to go. Debatably better/cheaper/or not, but he chose this way. I suppose I would be more adamantly against this signing if I saw it as the worst move like everyone else seems to see it or if I saw it as an obstacle for real difference makers. I just don't.

 

Why not debate .03 differences in Win Shares? There hasn't been much to get excited about this offseason. :D

 

My ultimate problem with the move is that I tie it closely to the DeRo trade that I thought (and still think) was so bad. Miles' spot on the bench used to be DeRo's (and Fontenot) and that downgrade bugs me. It's not a killer though, so hopefully something good will come of it.

It's unfairly tied to the DeRo trade by many. It's not at all the preference to have Miles over DeRo, just the preference to resign Demp and get Bradley. Hendry has said as much.

 

It's not a preference of Miles over DeRo that I see, it's that Miles was only signed because Hendry traded DeRo. And the ABs that DeRo would have gotten at positions other than second will now go to Miles (at 3B and perhaps in the OF). That's the connection.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It's unfairly tied to the DeRo trade by many. It's not at all the preference to have Miles over DeRo, just the preference to resign Demp and get Bradley. Hendry has said as much.

 

The difference between DeRosa and Miles' salary is about the difference between our payroll and the 140 million mark that was widely reported as the budgeted payroll amount.

[The Other 15]

It's unfairly tied to the DeRo trade by many. It's not at all the preference to have Miles over DeRo, just the preference to resign Demp and get Bradley. Hendry has said as much.

 

The difference between DeRosa and Miles' salary is about the difference between our payroll and the 140 million mark that was widely reported as the budgeted payroll amount.

You know it's not as simple as the $3.3 difference between Miles and DeRosa. They had to make a series of moves and non-moves to clear up payroll flexability. From saving $5.5 in the Marquis trade, $3.3 in Miles/DeRosa difference and saving about $6-8 in not offering Woddy arb (he'd have got $10+) and paying Gregg $4.2 they saved about $15 mil.

 

Bradley ($9) and Dempster ($6.5 additional diff from '08) coincidentally came to about $15.5 mil (if Cots.com is right).

[Transmogrified Tiger]

You know it's not as simple as the $3.3 difference between Miles and DeRosa. They had to make a series of moves and non-moves to clear up payroll flexability. From saving $5.5 in the Marquis trade, $3.3 in Miles/DeRosa difference and saving about $6-8 in not offering Woddy arb (he'd have got $10+) and paying Gregg $4.2 they saved about $15 mil.

 

Bradley ($9) and Dempster ($6.5 additional diff from '08) coincidentally came to about $15.5 mil (if Cots.com is right).

 

What I'm saying is they could've skipped the Miles/DeRosa difference and still been at an acceptable payroll.

[Backtobanks]

Jus tot be clear. I'm not calling you a pseudo intellectual, just calling out the general theme of every message board thread. We've seen differences of .03 in win shares debated etc. You won't get what Hendry sees from anyone here so I suggest watching and observing with an open mind. From your posts today and in the past, you seem to do that anyways. In closing, yes, there were other ways to go. Debatably better/cheaper/or not, but he chose this way. I suppose I would be more adamantly against this signing if I saw it as the worst move like everyone else seems to see it or if I saw it as an obstacle for real difference makers. I just don't.

 

Why not debate .03 differences in Win Shares? There hasn't been much to get excited about this offseason. :D

 

My ultimate problem with the move is that I tie it closely to the DeRo trade that I thought (and still think) was so bad. Miles' spot on the bench used to be DeRo's (and Fontenot) and that downgrade bugs me. It's not a killer though, so hopefully something good will come of it.

 

Instead of saying Miles' spot on the bench used to be DeRosa's, try saying that Miles' spot on the bench used to be Cedeno's. DeRosa was a starter, not a sub. Fontenot took DeRosa's job and the cash saved helped pay for Bradley. Finally, I still think the DeRosa trade will end up landing us Peavy.

[dew1679666265]

Jus tot be clear. I'm not calling you a pseudo intellectual, just calling out the general theme of every message board thread. We've seen differences of .03 in win shares debated etc. You won't get what Hendry sees from anyone here so I suggest watching and observing with an open mind. From your posts today and in the past, you seem to do that anyways. In closing, yes, there were other ways to go. Debatably better/cheaper/or not, but he chose this way. I suppose I would be more adamantly against this signing if I saw it as the worst move like everyone else seems to see it or if I saw it as an obstacle for real difference makers. I just don't.

 

Why not debate .03 differences in Win Shares? There hasn't been much to get excited about this offseason. :D

 

My ultimate problem with the move is that I tie it closely to the DeRo trade that I thought (and still think) was so bad. Miles' spot on the bench used to be DeRo's (and Fontenot) and that downgrade bugs me. It's not a killer though, so hopefully something good will come of it.

 

Instead of saying Miles' spot on the bench used to be DeRosa's, try saying that Miles' spot on the bench used to be Cedeno's. DeRosa was a starter, not a sub. Fontenot took DeRosa's job and the cash saved helped pay for Bradley. Finally, I still think the DeRosa trade will end up landing us Peavy.

 

Fontenot is the starter, but any injuries to Bradley and Aramis (and perhaps even Soriano) would have been filled with DeRosa. Now they'll be filled with Miles on the infield and Gathright/Hoff in the outfield. I'm ok with Hoff filling some of that OF time, but I'm not with Miles filling the IF time. Fontenot was going to get a bunch of ABs with or without DeRo.

 

And I really don't think the Peavy deal is happening, but I'll have a different outlook on the offseason if it does. Again, though, it appears very unlikely.