2009 Chicago Bears offseason

[dew1679666265]

 

You know it's still shocking that the Bears have the best QB in the NFC North along with one of the NFC's best.

 

 

 

I'm thinking real hard, and I don't think, all factors considered, that there's a QB in the NFC, short of Drew Brees, that I'd rather have. In the AFC, sure, there's a few.

 

Just for one year, or as a franchise QB?

 

If for just one year, I'd probably take Warner or McNabb over him (along with Brees). If as a franchise QB, he's second only to Brees in the NFC.

 

You're right, though, there are a number of QBs I'd take in the AFC (Peyton, Brady, Rivers, healthy Palmer).

 

Yea, I meant taking everything into account. Age, future, etc.

 

Even for just one year, though, I wouldn't take McNabb. And I'm pretty iffy on Warner's resurgence.

 

I figured you meant long-term, but wasn't sure. McNabb is right there with Philip Rivers as the most under-rated QBs in the league. He's put up very good numbers with mostly middle of the road receivers to throw to. If he was given a Marvin Harrison, Brandon Marshall, Randy Moss or Larry Fitzgerald to throw to consistently, I think he'd have some of the best numbers in the league.

 

Warner may be helped out quite a bit by having both Fitz and Boldin on the field, but his arm is still comparable to what it used to be and his decision making still appears good. He could drop off any year, but at this point I'm not betting against him.

[jersey cubs fan]

Warner wasn't just helped out, he was a completely different QB than he was in recent years. I wouldn't consider taking Warner, in Chicago, over Cutler for one game, let alone one year. McNabb, maybe.

[dew1679666265]

Warner wasn't just helped out, he was a completely different QB than he was in recent years. I wouldn't consider taking Warner, in Chicago, over Cutler for one game, let alone one year. McNabb, maybe.

 

I'm a little more iffy on Warner than McNabb. Donovan can be a very good QB with no WRs, but I think Cutler will ultimately have the better career.

[Soul]

If Cutler has a better career than McNabb in a Bears uni, you can count me one happy Bear fan.

[Magnetic Curses]

i don't think i'd take tom brady or carson palmer over cutler.

[dew1679666265]

i don't think i'd take tom brady or carson palmer over cutler.

 

Why not?

 

I'm talking about a healthy Brady/Palmer, by the way.

[apete6]

i don't think i'd take tom brady or carson palmer over cutler.

 

Now it's getting out of hand. Palmer, I'll give you. But Brady, even though he's coming off of an injury, is still Tom Brady. Until Cutler puts up a few unbelievable seasons, that might be a bit too much of a statement.

[jersey cubs fan]

i don't think i'd take tom brady or carson palmer over cutler.

 

Why not?

 

I'm talking about a healthy Brady/Palmer, by the way.

 

You can't just say they are healthy and have it be so. Palmer is 30 now and each of his last two seasons were less impressive than his two biggest seasons. He's had a real solid batch of talent to work with as well. I would say it remains to be seen where his career is going.

 

As for Brady, he's 32 and coming off a leg injury similar to the one that screwed up Palmer. He had the one monster year, but his career has not been nearly as good as that season, or his legend. He's great. And he'll probably still be a pretty good QB for a couple years. But is he going to be at his peak when he returns, and how long will he last?

 

I'd say there is definitely a debate.

[jersey cubs fan]

i don't think i'd take tom brady or carson palmer over cutler.

 

Now it's getting out of hand. Palmer, I'll give you. But Brady, even though he's coming off of an injury, is still Tom Brady. Until Cutler puts up a few unbelievable seasons, that might be a bit too much of a statement.

 

Tom Brady didn't put up an unbelievable season until he was 30, and his front office surrounded him with an ungodly amount of talent. Until that season his reputation was much better than he actually was as a QB (although he was still a very good QB).

[apete6]

i don't think i'd take tom brady or carson palmer over cutler.

 

Now it's getting out of hand. Palmer, I'll give you. But Brady, even though he's coming off of an injury, is still Tom Brady. Until Cutler puts up a few unbelievable seasons, that might be a bit too much of a statement.

 

Tom Brady didn't put up an unbelievable season until he was 30, and his front office surrounded him with an ungodly amount of talent. Until that season his reputation was much better than he actually was as a QB (although he was still a very good QB).

 

Cutler's first 3 season ratings average 87.1 and Brady's average about 85.5. Arguably, Cutler had better overall offensive talent. Brady's next 3 years were something like 92, 95, and 117 (the undefeated season). If Cutler tops that, I'll be impressed.

 

If I'm starting a franchise, I'd take Cutler 9 out of 10 times, but for this season, I'm taking Brady.

[jersey cubs fan]

i don't think i'd take tom brady or carson palmer over cutler.

 

Now it's getting out of hand. Palmer, I'll give you. But Brady, even though he's coming off of an injury, is still Tom Brady. Until Cutler puts up a few unbelievable seasons, that might be a bit too much of a statement.

 

Tom Brady didn't put up an unbelievable season until he was 30, and his front office surrounded him with an ungodly amount of talent. Until that season his reputation was much better than he actually was as a QB (although he was still a very good QB).

 

Cutler's first 3 season ratings average 87.1 and Brady's average about 85.5. Arguably, Cutler had better overall offensive talent. Brady's next 3 years were something like 92, 95, and 117 (the undefeated season). If Cutler tops that, I'll be impressed.

 

If I'm starting a franchise, I'd take Cutler 9 out of 10 times, but for this season, I'm taking Brady.

 

If it's just one season that's all the more reason not to take Brady. If you had to win the SB in the next 3 years, I'd take Brady, but if I'm building a franchise, I'd probably take Cutler.

 

How many QB's come back from serious injuries post 30?

[dew1679666265]

i don't think i'd take tom brady or carson palmer over cutler.

 

Why not?

 

I'm talking about a healthy Brady/Palmer, by the way.

 

You can't just say they are healthy and have it be so. Palmer is 30 now and each of his last two seasons were less impressive than his two biggest seasons. He's had a real solid batch of talent to work with as well. I would say it remains to be seen where his career is going.

 

As for Brady, he's 32 and coming off a leg injury similar to the one that screwed up Palmer. He had the one monster year, but his career has not been nearly as good as that season, or his legend. He's great. And he'll probably still be a pretty good QB for a couple years. But is he going to be at his peak when he returns, and how long will he last?

 

I'd say there is definitely a debate.

 

I realize you can't just wish injuries away, but by all reports Palmer is healthy and the Patriots must feel pretty confident in Brady's health since they traded away Cassel and haven't brought in veteran help of any sort.

 

As for Palmer, last year he only played in 4 games. That's the only season since his first year that he's missed any time. His numbers in 2007 were better than Cutler's (slightly) and he had the same awful defense/no real running game issues that Jay had. I don't see him returning to his 05 numbers, but 06 isn't out of the question if he's healthy. Those numbers would be better than Cutler this year, though his age would make me think twice about taking him over Cutler in a long-term situation.

 

Brady had amazing numbers in 07, great numbers in 04 and 05 and Jay Cutler-ish numbers in 01, 02, 03 and 06. If he's healthy (which indications are he mostly is) then to expect him to meet or surpass a good Cutler season is not much of a stretch at all. Again, his age does make me think twice, though.

 

I was thinking more short term with both of them in my original post.

[jersey cubs fan]

I realize you can't just wish injuries away, but by all reports Palmer is healthy and the Patriots must feel pretty confident in Brady's health since they traded away Cassel and haven't brought in veteran help of any sort.

 

As for Palmer, last year he only played in 4 games. That's the only season since his first year that he's missed any time. His numbers in 2007 were better than Cutler's (slightly) and he had the same awful defense/no real running game issues that Jay had. I don't see him returning to his 05 numbers, but 06 isn't out of the question if he's healthy. Those numbers would be better than Cutler this year, though his age would make me think twice about taking him over Cutler in a long-term situation.

 

Brady had amazing numbers in 07, great numbers in 04 and 05 and Jay Cutler-ish numbers in 01, 02, 03 and 06. If he's healthy (which indications are he mostly is) then to expect him to meet or surpass a good Cutler season is not much of a stretch at all. Again, his age does make me think twice, though.

 

I was thinking more short term with both of them in my original post.

 

Are we saying Cutler with the Bears and those guys with their teams, or those guys with the Bears?

[dew1679666265]

I realize you can't just wish injuries away, but by all reports Palmer is healthy and the Patriots must feel pretty confident in Brady's health since they traded away Cassel and haven't brought in veteran help of any sort.

 

As for Palmer, last year he only played in 4 games. That's the only season since his first year that he's missed any time. His numbers in 2007 were better than Cutler's (slightly) and he had the same awful defense/no real running game issues that Jay had. I don't see him returning to his 05 numbers, but 06 isn't out of the question if he's healthy. Those numbers would be better than Cutler this year, though his age would make me think twice about taking him over Cutler in a long-term situation.

 

Brady had amazing numbers in 07, great numbers in 04 and 05 and Jay Cutler-ish numbers in 01, 02, 03 and 06. If he's healthy (which indications are he mostly is) then to expect him to meet or surpass a good Cutler season is not much of a stretch at all. Again, his age does make me think twice, though.

 

I was thinking more short term with both of them in my original post.

 

Are we saying Cutler with the Bears and those guys with their teams, or those guys with the Bears?

 

That's a good question. It's been pretty hypothetical to this point.

 

It's hard to gauge what Cutler will do with the Bears because the receivers are such question marks. I was focusing on his numbers with the Broncos and the other guys with their current teams, since it's so hard to predict what those Chicago receivers will do.

[cubweiser03]

McNabb blew his knee out in 06 and was good in 07. Age would be more of a determining factor in deciding between Cutler and Brady/McNabb for me. Brady is 6 years older and probably has 3-4 more good years left. Short term id definetly take Brady but the long term of Cutler is more valuable to me. For the next 3 years whats the difference between Brady and Culter, not a huge amount. Finding really good qbs in this league is hard, who is going to be NE's qb 4-10 years from now? The Bears will have Cutler in that span and the difference between Chicagos qb situation compard to NE's for those 6 years will be much, much greater than the next 3 years between the 2 teams.

[dew1679666265]

McNabb blew his knee out in 06 and was good in 07. Age would be more of a determining factor in deciding between Cutler and Brady/McNabb for me. Brady is 6 years older and probably has 3-4 more good years left. Short term id definetly take Brady but the long term of Cutler is more valuable to me. For the next 3 years whats the difference between Brady and Culter, not a huge amount. Finding really good qbs in this league is hard, who is going to be NE's qb 4-10 years from now? The Bears will have Cutler in that span and the difference between Chicagos qb situation compard to NE's for those 6 years will be much, much greater than the next 3 years between the 2 teams.

 

Yeah, if we're talking about building a franchise I'd take Cutler over Brady, McNabb and Palmer. If we're talking about winning the Super Bowl this year, I'd take Brady and maybe McNabb over Cutler and think about Palmer - depending on his health.

[Magnetic Curses]

i just don't think brady would be all that great if he were thrown into the bears system. with the patriots, he plays in the shotgun, they throw most of the time, and he has all the time in the world to pick apart defenses. plus, he has two pretty nifty receivers he can either throw the ball up in the eair to, or dump off to, and expect to put up the stats.

 

cutler is better, his arm is far better, he can make any throw at any time, he's mobile enough to get himself and his receivers time, he just doesn't have that little ironclad pocket of wonderfulness that they have in new england where none shall pass.

[jersey cubs fan]

i just don't think brady would be all that great if he were thrown into the bears system. with the patriots, he plays in the shotgun, they throw most of the time, and he has all the time in the world to pick apart defenses. plus, he has two pretty nifty receivers he can either throw the ball up in the eair to, or dump off to, and expect to put up the stats.

 

cutler is better, his arm is far better, he can make any throw at any time, he's mobile enough to get himself and his receivers time, he just doesn't have that little ironclad pocket of wonderfulness that they have in new england where none shall pass.

 

And when that pocket shows the least bit of vulnerability, the whole NE system tends to look like a mess.

[Magnetic Curses]

i just don't think brady would be all that great if he were thrown into the bears system. with the patriots, he plays in the shotgun, they throw most of the time, and he has all the time in the world to pick apart defenses. plus, he has two pretty nifty receivers he can either throw the ball up in the eair to, or dump off to, and expect to put up the stats.

 

cutler is better, his arm is far better, he can make any throw at any time, he's mobile enough to get himself and his receivers time, he just doesn't have that little ironclad pocket of wonderfulness that they have in new england where none shall pass.

 

And when that pocket shows the least bit of vulnerability, the whole NE system tends to look like a mess.

 

exactly.

[SpongeWorthy]

i just don't think brady would be all that great if he were thrown into the bears system. with the patriots, he plays in the shotgun, they throw most of the time, and he has all the time in the world to pick apart defenses. plus, he has two pretty nifty receivers he can either throw the ball up in the eair to, or dump off to, and expect to put up the stats.

 

cutler is better, his arm is far better, he can make any throw at any time, he's mobile enough to get himself and his receivers time, he just doesn't have that little ironclad pocket of wonderfulness that they have in new england where none shall pass.

 

Tom Brady in his entire career has never had a season where he was sacked as few times as Cutler was last year. Even in 2007 Brady was sacked 21 times (compared to Cutler being sacked 11 times last season) and that was the lowest total of his career.

 

I like Cutler too but that's just way overboard. Brady is arguably the greatest QB of all time and you're actually saying Cutler is ALREADY better. That's ludicrous.

[jersey cubs fan]

i just don't think brady would be all that great if he were thrown into the bears system. with the patriots, he plays in the shotgun, they throw most of the time, and he has all the time in the world to pick apart defenses. plus, he has two pretty nifty receivers he can either throw the ball up in the eair to, or dump off to, and expect to put up the stats.

 

cutler is better, his arm is far better, he can make any throw at any time, he's mobile enough to get himself and his receivers time, he just doesn't have that little ironclad pocket of wonderfulness that they have in new england where none shall pass.

 

Tom Brady in his entire career has never had a season where he was sacked as few times as Cutler was last year. Even in 2007 Brady was sacked 21 times (compared to Cutler being sacked 11 times last season) and that was the lowest total of his career.

 

I like Cutler too but that's just way overboard. Brady is arguably the greatest QB of all time and you're actually saying Cutler is ALREADY better. That's ludicrous.

 

No he isn't.

[SpongeWorthy]

He sure is.

 

His accuracy is off the charts. He probably is one of the best 5 deep ball throwers in the history of the league. His pocket presence and manipulation is fantastic. Brady doesn't have the strongest arm but he can really sling it when necessary--definitely above average in that regard. He's not very mobile but he has a quick release and can throw on the move as well.

 

And his resume stacks up against anyone's. How is it not arguable?

[Soul]

I really think the lion's share of New England's success is Belichek, and that includes Brady.

 

Maybe when Cassel doesn't light it up with the Chiefs like he did last year, a few people will begin to at least question how successful Brady would have been apart from Bill's loving embrace.

[SpongeWorthy]

Yeah, and Joe Montana was nothing without Bill Walsh. Remind me, what was Belichick as a head coach prior to Brady?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd want him running the Bears out of any guy out there but you can have the best system in the world and you still need good players to execute it. Belichick would be the first to tell you that.

 

And Cassel had a decent year in 2008--as in he was a borderline top 10 QB in the league. Brady had the greatest season of a QB in league history with largely the same personnel. Let's not pretend Cassel went in there and duplicated what Brady did just because he did a decent job.

[CubColtPacer]

Yeah, and Joe Montana was nothing without Bill Walsh. Remind me, what was Belichick as a head coach prior to Brady?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd want him running the Bears out of any guy out there but you can have the best system in the world and you still need good players to execute it. Belichick would be the first to tell you that.

 

And Cassel had a decent year in 2008--as in he was a borderline top 10 QB in the league. Brady had the greatest season of a QB in league history with largely the same personnel. Let's not pretend Cassel went in there and duplicated what Brady did just because he did a decent job.

 

Brady's season was arguably the greatest in league history. It's probably only 2nd or 3rd best. But that's a nitpick.

 

I would agree that there's still a big difference between Cassel's level and Brady's level. Although if Cassell had experience, those first 3 games would have probably had a lot higher numbers and inflated his season stats. But still I think Cassell is a system QB while Brady might have been a system QB in the past but would now be a fantastic QB for any team.

 

Brady's a fantastic QB. But his numbers don't really stack up to the top 5 QB's of all time. So he has to rely simply on team success. And it's really hard to consider that Brady is the best QB of all time when the Patriots were a better defensive team than offensive during most of their SB runs.

 

Brady will likely go down in the top 10 of QB's all-time. If he hadn't gotten hurt, maybe he would have put up more eyepopping seasons and been top 5 all-time. I'm not sure how much higher he could get though. He got to sit on the bench for his first couple years (so he avoided the terrible rookie year that some QB's have while they are still learning the league) and yet his numbers still aren't likely to stack up by the end of his career.