Dunn is awesome...No he's not...Yes he is!!!

[mdwilla]

DUNN- younger, durable ,can move to first after Lee's contract expires.

[17 Seconds]

 

#3- His 2008 numbers are preposterously unconvincing. He slugged nearly .700 at Texas and under .500 away from Texas. Let's see, also, is he going to have a .388 BABIP again in 2009? Highly doubtful. Who had the highest BABIP of qualified players in 2008? Milton Bradley.

 

If you're going to point out that he got ehlp from Texas last year, then it's only fair you point out that he played in big time pitchers' parks every other season of his career...including Petco in 2007 when he still mashed. In 2003 he kind of broke out (althrough he had under 400 ABs) at age 25. Since then, here is where he has played before going to Texas

 

2004- LAD (26th in ESPN park factors)

2005- LAD (25th)

2006- OAK (24th)

2007- OAK (29th)

2007- SD (30th)

 

His OPS+ team by team in that span was 108, 118, 114, 122, 167 (153 total in 2007) and then 163 last year.

 

Last year he still had an .872 OPS on the road. In 2007 he had a .977 OPS at Petco and a .947 overall OPS for the season even though his home games were split between the first and second ranked pitchers' park that year.

 

I'm obviously not expecting like a .950 OPS from him, but saying he'll have an .820 OPS is kind of silly, especially considering he'll be moving to a park that is consistently in the top 10 for hitters.

 

Oh, and where are you getting 4/40 from?

[inari]

The issue isn't even performance for me (though I don't think it would be outstanding), it's that he couldn't stay healthy last year as a DH. There is no way he'd play more than 100 games. I'm not trying to harp on the fact I don't want Bradley. I've made it fairly clear. But God, I just don't get how I'm in such a small minority.

[badnews]

I like we're all going to sit here with our fingers in our ears and ignore his .388 BABIP or the fact that he can't stay healthy and use the worst logic possible.

 

"We don't need him for the regular season, just the playoffs." Well hell, let's rest everybody for the regular season and just wait until the playoffs to start playing. That'll work out well.

 

"If we don't sign Bradley who are we supposed to get?" Oh, this is brilliant reasoning. Right up there with the "If we don't sign Fukudome, we'll have to get Geoff Jenkins or Jose Guillen" stuff. How about this: I'd rather have NO CONTRACT than a BAD CONTRACT. If we had said that last year we wouldn't be stuck with Suckodome. That's what people said about Jacque Jones. "If we don't sign Jacque Jones we'll be stuck with Juan Encarnacion!" Can't we just man up and say if nobody fits then nobody fits instead of handing out 4 year contracts out of utter desperation?

 

I'd rather have Adam Dunn than Milton Bradley. Who was it who said Milton Bradley stole 5 bases in 2008 so he must be feeling well? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Adam Dunn has a pretty good stolen base record. Adam Dunn's season high in steals is higher than Milton Bradley's!

 

Baseball Prospectus has already shown how Ibanez is a much worse defender than Adam Dunn, yet people continue out with this schtick.

 

Sorry, 90 games of Milton Bradley at an .820ish OPS is not going to cut it. Maybe next time we can actually be enthusiastic about a player worth a damn. And if all this sounds harsh just remember this - you're getting excited over Milton Freaking Bradley, somebody with some sense needs to be harsh about the realities of that.

[17 Seconds]

I like we're all going to sit here with our fingers in our ears and ignore his .388 BABIP or the fact that he can't stay healthy and use the worst logic possible.

 

"We don't need him for the regular season, just the playoffs." Well hell, let's rest everybody for the regular season and just wait until the playoffs to start playing. That'll work out well.

 

"If we don't sign Bradley who are we supposed to get?" Oh, this is brilliant reasoning. Right up there with the "If we don't sign Fukudome, we'll have to get Geoff Jenkins or Jose Guillen" stuff. How about this: I'd rather have NO CONTRACT than a BAD CONTRACT. If we had said that last year we wouldn't be stuck with Suckodome. That's what people said about Jacque Jones. "If we don't sign Jacque Jones we'll be stuck with Juan Encarnacion!" Can't we just man up and say if nobody fits then nobody fits instead of handing out 4 year contracts out of utter desperation?

 

I'd rather have Adam Dunn than Milton Bradley. Who was it who said Milton Bradley stole 5 bases in 2008 so he must be feeling well? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Adam Dunn has a pretty good stolen base record. Adam Dunn's season high in steals is higher than Milton Bradley's!

 

Baseball Prospectus has already shown how Ibanez is a much worse defender than Adam Dunn, yet people continue out with this schtick.

 

Sorry, 90 games of Milton Bradley at an .820ish OPS is not going to cut it. Maybe next time we can actually be enthusiastic about a player worth a damn. And if all this sounds harsh just remember this - you're getting excited over Milton Freaking Bradley, somebody with some sense needs to be harsh about the realities of that.

 

You already said most of that stuff in your first post.

 

Plus I already explained why an .820 OPS is unrealistic.

[inari]

Looking at our realistic options for right field, I see Bobby Abreu, Jeremy Hermida, and Milton Bradley. Going a little bit further out there you could consider Adam Dunn or Jermaine Dye. Going even further out there, you could stick Pie in center and play Fukudome in right again. I don't really think of Bradley as a better option than any of those given his history.

 

1. Dunn

2. Hermida

3. Pie/Fukudome

4. Dye

5. Abreu

6. Bradley

 

That's honestly how I'd assess our options. As badnews said, this is Milton frigging Bradley we're talking about. In right field. Why are we so excited? I'm praying someone makes an offer he can't refuse and it isn't us.

[badnews]

I entered this topic expecting to find people disgusted, instead I've discovered everyone having a circle jerk over Bradley.

 

Seriously, has no one learned their lesson about signing free agents to a multiyear contract when they've just put up their career highs in batting average, walks, RBIs, HRs, OPS, etc.? These numbers are about as real as Soriano taking 67 walks and hitting 46 home runs in 2006. You will never see those numbers again. Milton Bradley will never take 80 walks again. He may never play 80 games again. He will never hit .321 again. His career OPS against righthanded pitching is .801, Adam Dunn's career OPS against righthanded pitching is 9freaking31.

 

Hey how about this, if you're worried about where to play Adam Dunn, just rest him until the playoffs, all we need him for is the playoffs, just like Bradley, right?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Bradley is not getting 4/40.

 

Ranting and raving about Bradley playing in Arlington and having a high BABIP in 2008 rings awfully hollow considering he's raked no matter where he's been. People aren't excited because he hit well in 2008, they're excited because he's been a good hitter forever.

 

Bradley's career OPS is over .820(misleading anyway since he's always had an OBP heavy OPS), and he's played in pitchers parks everywhere he's been.

 

Bradley's health is a valid concern. However, with DeRosa and Fontenot around, we're well equipped to gamble on higher performance(compared to the alternatives) at the risk of health. The rumored deal was 2 years with a vesting option, so he's not going to be a millstone contract if he breaks himself.

[UMFan83]

Seriously, has no one learned their lesson about signing free agents to a multiyear contract when they've just put up their career highs in batting average, walks, RBIs, HRs, OPS, etc.?

 

You mean like Mark DeRosa's 2006?

[imb]

Looking at our realistic options for right field, I see Bobby Abreu, Jeremy Hermida, and Milton Bradley. Going a little bit further out there you could consider Adam Dunn or Jermaine Dye. Going even further out there, you could stick Pie in center and play Fukudome in right again. I don't really think of Bradley as a better option than any of those given his history.

 

1. Dunn

2. Hermida

3. Pie/Fukudome

4. Dye

5. Abreu

6. Bradley

 

That's honestly how I'd assess our options. As badnews said, this is Milton frigging Bradley we're talking about. In right field. Why are we so excited? I'm praying someone makes an offer he can't refuse and it isn't us.

 

you dont think bradley is a better option than abreu or fukudome?

[17 Seconds]

These numbers are about as real as Soriano taking 67 walks and hitting 46 home runs in 2006.

 

If Soriano had the same amount of PAs in 2008 as he did in 2006, his numbers project to about 42 home runs and 62 walks.

 

just sayin'

[inari]

Looking at our realistic options for right field, I see Bobby Abreu, Jeremy Hermida, and Milton Bradley. Going a little bit further out there you could consider Adam Dunn or Jermaine Dye. Going even further out there, you could stick Pie in center and play Fukudome in right again. I don't really think of Bradley as a better option than any of those given his history.

 

1. Dunn

2. Hermida

3. Pie/Fukudome

4. Dye

5. Abreu

6. Bradley

 

That's honestly how I'd assess our options. As badnews said, this is Milton frigging Bradley we're talking about. In right field. Why are we so excited? I'm praying someone makes an offer he can't refuse and it isn't us.

 

you dont think bradley is a better option than abreu or fukudome?

 

I think signing Bradley would amount to paying extra money to have Reed Johnson or Fukudome play right field for 60-70 games. So yeah, I'd prefer either of those options.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

you dont think bradley is a better option than abreu or fukudome?

 

I think signing Bradley would amount to paying extra money to have Reed Johnson or Fukudome play right field for 60-70 games. So yeah, I'd prefer either of those options.

 

It's more playing time for Fontenot, not Kosuke or Johnson.

[17 Seconds]

Looking at our realistic options for right field, I see Bobby Abreu, Jeremy Hermida, and Milton Bradley. Going a little bit further out there you could consider Adam Dunn or Jermaine Dye. Going even further out there, you could stick Pie in center and play Fukudome in right again. I don't really think of Bradley as a better option than any of those given his history.

 

1. Dunn

2. Hermida

3. Pie/Fukudome

4. Dye

5. Abreu

6. Bradley

 

That's honestly how I'd assess our options. As badnews said, this is Milton frigging Bradley we're talking about. In right field. Why are we so excited? I'm praying someone makes an offer he can't refuse and it isn't us.

 

you dont think bradley is a better option than abreu or fukudome?

 

I think signing Bradley would amount to paying extra money to have Reed Johnson or Fukudome play right field for 60-70 games. So yeah, I'd prefer either of those options.

 

It wouldn't be Reed or Fuku. It would essentially be putting Fontenot in the lineup with DeRosa just sliding to right. Just a couple weeks ago Lou was talking about finding Fontenot more playing time.

[badnews]

Adam Dunn's career OPS+ is 130, Teixeira's is 134. Teixeira is going to make at least 8/160, what's the ceiling on Dunn's contract? 5/80? He's not going to make as much as Carlos Lee did because teams were attracted to Carlos Lee's HR + contact ability. He doesn't strike out much for a power hitter. A lot of teams are turned off by Dunn's reputation as the worst defensive outfielder in baseball (proven to be false) and by his strikeouts (who cares).

 

So if you can get Adam Dunn for half the total contract price of Mark Teixeira, guess what you do it. Oh yes, Dunn can actually beat up righthanded pitching as opposed to Bradley, who does the same old song and dance as most Cub hitters - mash lefties, not so good against righties.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Dunn would probably be the worst defensive right fielder in the history of baseball.

[inari]

you dont think bradley is a better option than abreu or fukudome?

 

I think signing Bradley would amount to paying extra money to have Reed Johnson or Fukudome play right field for 60-70 games. So yeah, I'd prefer either of those options.

 

It's more playing time for Fontenot, not Kosuke or Johnson.

 

Okay, still. The fact that he's going to need so much time off doesn't worry anyone? I completely neglected that option. I'd rather have DeRo as the full time right fielder than waste money on Bradley to inevitably get hurt. He's had a grand total of one healthy season in which he consistently played defense and it was way back in 2004. Last year he only managed to play in 120 games as a DH! There's literally no reason to believe he'd stay healthy in 2009. Yeah, we'd have depth, but why pay someone who you can almost pencil in for missing 1/3 of the season?

 

Dunn would be ugly in right field, but he did it in Arizona. And he could be moved to first after 2010. I'd much rather have Dunn than anyone else. Even Peavy.

[badnews]

Move Soriano over to right, I don't give a crap. Move Soriano to 2nd and DeRosa to right. Hell, it doesn't matter. David Ortiz playing shortstop plays better defense than a guy on the 60 day DL.

[Schwarber Fan]

Hey Jim, get this done already!

[Little Slide Rooter]

Bradleys just an all around good player. Hes not the guy whose going to take a bad team and make them decent, or a good tram and make them great, but he is the type of player who you can put on an already great team and plug up a huge, obvious hole, and can hopefully be that piece weve been looking for, and that would be worth a 2 or 3 year deal, hopefully with incentives.

[Backtobanks]

DUNN- younger, durable ,can move to first after Lee's contract expires.

 

Never use Dunn's name with the term "can move" in the same sentence.

[Jehrico]

DUNN- younger, durable ,can move to first after Lee's contract expires.

 

Never use Dunn's name with the term "can move" in the same sentence.

I'd rather never see Dunn at 1B. Instead of lowering our defense in just LF, he'd worsen the defense of our entire infield.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Guys, guys...why not sign Dunn and Bradley, move Soriano to first and trade Lee? :D

[shnsajax]

Adam Dunn's career OPS+ is 130, Teixeira's is 134. Teixeira is going to make at least 8/160, what's the ceiling on Dunn's contract? 5/80? He's not going to make as much as Carlos Lee did because teams were attracted to Carlos Lee's HR + contact ability. He doesn't strike out much for a power hitter. A lot of teams are turned off by Dunn's reputation as the worst defensive outfielder in baseball (proven to be false) and by his strikeouts (who cares).

 

So if you can get Adam Dunn for half the total contract price of Mark Teixeira, guess what you do it. Oh yes, Dunn can actually beat up righthanded pitching as opposed to Bradley, who does the same old song and dance as most Cub hitters - mash lefties, not so good against righties.

 

Seriously is that all that seperates Tex from Dunn? Horrible reasoning and comparison. Carlos Lee is also a much better player regardless of contract size. Are you going to platton Dunn vs. lefties, and I wouldn't really say he beats up on right handed pitching because that where he is more successful at. Its still pretty much walk or HR from there as well. His splits are still horrible, and his biggest benefit to the Cubs is the "walk". Where do you see that Dunn beats up on righthanded pitching better Bradley when Bradley is .312/.417/.523/.940 vs. righties?

 

Dunn needs to make the transition to the AL starting next season.

[scarey]

To all of you Adam Dunn fans, this is why I don't think Dunn is a worthwhile option (not including defensive reasons).

Career batting average with runners in scoring position: .225

 

Now, I know you're going to say, "but, his OBP in that situation is .416".

 

To that, I just want to argue that getting on base in a RISP situation is not always getting the job done. For one thing, Dunn is supposed to be the type of player that drives those runners in. We could find plenty of other guys that occupy first base after we get a runner on 3rd, but I want a person that can drive the runner in. Maybe I'm being picky, but that's just what I want.

 

Also, Adam Dunn is a slow and less then adequate base runner. Do you think there's a reason he has a high OBP with runners in scoring position? I'll give you a clue, if you take away the IBB when he's in that situation his OBP drops from .416 to .354. While that's better then average, I wouldn't say it's impressive. This doesn't even include all the "unintentional" IBB. People WANT him on base in a RISP situation (unless of coarse it moves another person into scoring position). The guy is a walking double play on first base.