Harden's velocity is way down

[Peoriaman]

He isn't the same pitcher.

[Cubs08]

Ummm...okay

[Yeti]

if he can keep pitching like he did tonight, through october, i'll be ok with him missing next year

[Peoriaman]

fastball the last 2 games 88-90. He was throwing his ave fastball 93 early in the year and humping it up to 95-96 when he needed to. He pitched well tonight, but he clearly has arm issues.

[Coach C]

*scratches my head in confusion*

[bukie]

He was throwing FBs for 93 in the sixth tonight, so I'm not exactly sure where you're getting 88-90. He certainly wasn't struggling out there.

[SouthSideRyan]

I believe everyone said this about his last game with the A's. This was his first game back after soreness, and his last game he obviously had some sort of soreness. I'm not fretting yet.

[Peoriaman]

What is so confusing?

 

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-080911-rich-harden-chicago-cubs,0,7701335.column

[Peoriaman]

He was throwing FBs for 93 in the sixth tonight, so I'm not exactly sure where you're getting 88-90. He certainly wasn't struggling out there.

 

The gun had virtually all his fastballs from 88-90. I just watched the game. If he threw a 93, it was a rare one.

 

Not panicking, just saying he has clearly lost the zip off his fastball. I hope he gets it back--it makes him that much better.

[Peoriaman]

But the quiet Canadian did not blow hitters away, rarely reaching back for one of the mid-90s fastballs he was throwing with ease in the stretch in which he struck out 70 in 49 innings. His fastball was in the high 80s so much that one scout said he looked like a guy trying to work himself into shape in a spring training game.

[sneakypower]

he got stronger as the game went on, understandable given the layoff

 

he hung around 90 with his FB as opposed to his usual 92; doesn't seem like too big a deal to me

[SouthSideRyan]

Phil Rogers???

[CubColtPacer]

fastball the last 2 games 88-90. He was throwing his ave fastball 93 early in the year and humping it up to 95-96 when he needed to. He pitched well tonight, but he clearly has arm issues.

 

His velocity was down tonight, but not as much as the above would imply. Looking at the Pitch FX data, in his starts with the Cubs most of the time his average fastball is around 92. Some slightly above, some slightly below.

 

Tonight his average fastball was 89.91 miles per hour. So down about 2 miles in hour on average. His previous start btw was at 91.79, so this is a 1 start issue, not 2.

 

There's plenty of reasons why your fastball could be down a couple miles an hour over the span of 1 start, especially when he's had that much time off. I see arm trouble as jumping the gun until he at least has a 2nd start that's like this. There's way too much variability in speed normally from start to start to be worrying about 2 miles an hour.

[bukie]

Average fastball for the night was just over 90 mph. He threw 51 fastballs, ranging from 87 to 94 mph.

[Laura]

There are different data feeds for pitch speed. Brooks Baseball, based on pitchfx, has him touching 90-92 frequently. The tv speeds they were showing were slower. Harden does seem more prone to swings in velocity between starts.

[17 Seconds]

He isn't the same pitcher.

 

It's fine to voice concerns about his velocity, but you're jumping to conclusions with the "he isn't the same pitcher" type stuff. It's been pretty well documented that Harden's velocity varies from start to start and it will sometimes drop duringthe seeason. Hell, it's happened before this with the Cubs, and then it comes back. Let's wait and see his next few starts before we start flipping out.

Edited September 12, 2008 by 17 Seconds

[David]

I remember him with velocity like today's in another of his starts. I'm not too worried but I will be looking closely to see if we see an increase in his next start.

[AlwaysaCub]

Maybe he was feeling tentative having not pitched in 11 days or so and just didn't want to risk really hurting himself when his 90 mph fastball was effective enough. Or maybe he's hurt. It was just one start and time will tell. But I seriously wouldn't worry about it. He wasn't exactly giving up screaming liners that required great defensive plays behind him, that was Marmol.

[Peoriaman]

He isn't the same pitcher.

 

It's fine to voice concerns about his velocity, but you're jumping to conclusions with the "he isn't the same pitcher" type stuff. It's been pretty well documented that Harden's velocity varies from start to start and it will sometimes drop duringthe seeason. Hell, it's happened before this with the Cubs, and then it comes back. Let's wait and see his next few starts before we start flipping out.

 

 

I never "flipped out".

[radarluv1]

how was everyone else''s velo? the air was like pea soup.

[Peoriaman]

how was everyone else''s velo? the air was like pea soup.

 

I know Marmol hit 95.

 

My only point is this was the second straight game where his velocity on his ave fastball and his good fastball were down. That's all.

 

I am not in a panic and I am not a bitcher and moaner. He has been spotting the ball a lot more the last 2 games rather than throwing it by people. Today, when he threw 93, it was a sailing very high fastball. I never said his dropped velocity was permanent. I hope it is something that will come back.

[Deeg]

This wasn't a gun issue, as Welly was 92-94 and Marmol 93-95. Harden threw several in the 86-88 range and just generally had very little life on the ball. It was a gutty performance, but anyone who has watched this guy pitch extensively would tell you he was nowhere close to right out there. Given that he's already almost doubled the IP he had in '06-07 combined, it's very possible that he just has nothing left this year. Get him out there and see if he can gut out some wins - it's not like we have Cy Young waiting in the wings to take Harden's spot - but I was not at all encouraged by what I saw from him tonight.

[Peoriaman]

This wasn't a gun issue, as Welly was 92-94 and Marmol 93-95. Harden threw several in the 86-88 range and just generally had very little life on the ball. It was a gutty performance, but anyone who has watched this guy pitch extensively would tell you he was nowhere close to right out there. Given that he's already almost doubled the IP he had in '06-07 combined, it's very possible that he just has nothing left this year. Get him out there and see if he can gut out some wins - it's not like we have Cy Young waiting in the wings to take Harden's spot - but I was not at all encouraged by what I saw from him tonight.

 

 

and I know Woody hit 95 tonnight, maybe 96.

[SouthSideRyan]

This wasn't a gun issue, as Welly was 92-94 and Marmol 93-95. Harden threw several in the 86-88 range and just generally had very little life on the ball. It was a gutty performance, but anyone who has watched this guy pitch extensively would tell you he was nowhere close to right out there. Given that he's already almost doubled the IP he had in '06-07 combined, it's very possible that he just has nothing left this year. Get him out there and see if he can gut out some wins - it's not like we have Cy Young waiting in the wings to take Harden's spot - but I was not at all encouraged by what I saw from him tonight.

 

 

and I know Woody hit 95 tonnight, maybe 96.

 

98 according to the game thread.

[RedFlash]

He isn't the same pitcher.

 

It's fine to voice concerns about his velocity, but you're jumping to conclusions with the "he isn't the same pitcher" type stuff. It's been pretty well documented that Harden's velocity varies from start to start and it will sometimes drop duringthe seeason. Hell, it's happened before this with the Cubs, and then it comes back. Let's wait and see his next few starts before we start flipping out.

 

 

I never "flipped out".

 

True, but to say he "isn't the same pitcher" despite making his first start SINCE AUGUST 29TH, or 2 weeks ago, reeks of slight panic.....I expect Harden to be back in the 92-95 range next start out. If the lack of velocity is prolonged, that's one thing (one start doesn't make it prolonged), but right now, to suggest he isn't a "the same pitcher" is trying to get a rise out of people.