8/18 other games (a.k.a Astros vs. Brewers)

[ChiCubsfan0502]

Don't worry, C.C., only a month and a half to go and then you can start thinking what it will be like to pitch for the Cubs. 8-) :hello:

 

Aside from him wanting to go west, signing him is becoming a risky endeavor.

 

True, he might be damaged goods by then.

:blink:

[JimSorgi]

Don't worry, C.C., only a month and a half to go and then you can start thinking what it will be like to pitch for the Cubs. 8-) :hello:

 

Aside from him wanting to go west, signing him is becoming a risky endeavor.

 

True, he might be damaged goods by then.

:blink:

Yeah, considering his arm will have fallen off.

[SouthSideRyan]

With him only throwing 111 so far, Yost will probably get those CG stars in his eyes and make him throw 130.

[VanceJergins]

Don't worry, C.C., only a month and a half to go and then you can start thinking what it will be like to pitch for the Cubs. 8-) :hello:

 

Aside from him wanting to go west, signing him is becoming a risky endeavor.

 

True, he might be damaged goods by then.

:blink:

Yeah, considering his arm will have fallen off.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he goes the route of Mark "Who" Buehrle and have a real down year next year. I just hope he doesn't have a WS ring like "Who" did.

[VanceJergins]

With him only throwing 111 so far, Yost will probably get those CG stars in his eyes and make him throw 130.

 

You should write a book.

[Wilson A2000]

How have CC's pitch counts been in years past?

[Ball And Glove]

130 is a career high for a single game, and the guy's thrown over 20 complete games in his career before tonight. Not even Eric Wedge was stupid enough to leave him in that long.

 

Between Yost's idiocy (when STEVE FREAKING PHILLIPS is calling you out, you know you're a moron) and Braun re-injuring himself on a wild hack, this is the first time in awhile I've been genuinely pissed off after a win. Absolutely inexcusable and irresponsible.

 

I don't care if Sabathia is a "battler" or a "gamer" -- at some point you need to step in and think long-term, otherwise you're going to have to sit through him getting shellacked by the Mets, Phillies, and Cubs in September. Sabathia said he didn't mind going that long because he has an extra off-day before his next start, but Ned's really going to hear it from the fans if Sabathia's even less sharp in his next start.

 

If Tom Haudricourt wasn't too busy personally attacking his readers in his blog and printing their full names and e-mail addresses, he could ask Yost why the hell he decided to keep Sabathia in with an 8-2 lead in the 8th and a 9-2 lead in the ninth. I realize the Brewers' bullpen is bad, but even Guillermo Mota could hold a 9-2 lead in the 9th.

[RedFlash]

Since being acquired by the Brewers all but one of his starts he has gone over the 100 pitch mark, and the one game he went 97 pitches. In contrast, all but 2 starts for Rich Harden has been under 100 pitches. Which tells me that the Cubs are not allowing Harden to waste pitches now, and plan on using him longer in games later in the yr, ie October. As for the Brewers, I think we all agree is using CC and Sheets to save his job. He knows if the Brewers don't make the playoffs, he's gone.

 

18 starts with the Indians and he threw 1938 (estimated) or on average of 107 pitches per game. In 8 starts with the Brewers he has thrown 1015 pitches on average of 126 pitches per start. If I am Brewer fan, I would be worried about a fade in September for the big man. I really would.

 

Put this in perspective....on his current pace, he would throw 115 more pitches then he did in 2007. Throw more 761 more pitches in 08 then 06. 544 more pitches then 05. Etc, etc...In other words...each yr he has thrown more pitches then the yr before. Eventually that will catch up with a pitcher. I'm hoping CC stays healthy, but with Yost as a manager, I could see CC flame out in September. His stats say CC will dominate in September, but his manager usage suggest, CC will prolly struggle in a couple of "key starts" in a little.

[aerosmith21]

130 is a career high for a single game, and the guy's thrown over 20 complete games in his career before tonight. Not even Eric Wedge was stupid enough to leave him in that long.

 

Between Yost's idiocy (when STEVE FREAKING PHILLIPS is calling you out, you know you're a moron) and Braun re-injuring himself on a wild hack, this is the first time in awhile I've been genuinely pissed off after a win. Absolutely inexcusable and irresponsible.

 

I don't care if Sabathia is a "battler" or a "gamer" -- at some point you need to step in and think long-term, otherwise you're going to have to sit through him getting shellacked by the Mets, Phillies, and Cubs in September. Sabathia said he didn't mind going that long because he has an extra off-day before his next start, but Ned's really going to hear it from the fans if Sabathia's even less sharp in his next start.

 

If Tom Haudricourt wasn't too busy personally attacking his readers in his blog and printing their full names and e-mail addresses, he could ask Yost why the hell he decided to keep Sabathia in with an 8-2 lead in the 8th and a 9-2 lead in the ninth. I realize the Brewers' bullpen is bad, but even Guillermo Mota could hold a 9-2 lead in the 9th.

 

If I recall right didnt CC have a terrible postseason last year?

[Ball And Glove]

Yeah, Sabathia got roughed up in the playoffs, but it's hard to tell if he was overworked or just lost his control because he was so amped up. He admitted that he gets a little nervous for big games, and he can't locate his pitches as well when he's nervous.

 

RedFlash, are you sure those pitch count numbers for Sabathia are correct? I have a hard time believing he's averaged 126 pitches per start when he's only hit 120 twice (this game and the Cubs game), IIRC. Your main point is right on, though...it's eventually going to catch up to him. Unfortunately for Sabathia, he's on such a ridiculous pace right now that he can't possibly keep it up. Once he starts to falter, a lot of people will point to the overuse, but it could just as easily be him regressing back to the mean. If/when he does start regressing, the key will be looking at his velocity...if it's down a notch across the board, I'd say it's pretty obvious it was from overuse. If the velocity is fine and he's just getting hit, it's likely just him regressing back to the mean.

[Guest]

Since being acquired by the Brewers all but one of his starts he has gone over the 100 pitch mark, and the one game he went 97 pitches. In contrast, all but 2 starts for Rich Harden has been under 100 pitches. Which tells me that the Cubs are not allowing Harden to waste pitches now, and plan on using him longer in games later in the yr, ie October. As for the Brewers, I think we all agree is using CC and Sheets to save his job. He knows if the Brewers don't make the playoffs, he's gone.

 

18 starts with the Indians and he threw 1938 (estimated) or on average of 107 pitches per game. In 8 starts with the Brewers he has thrown 1015 pitches on average of 126 pitches per start. If I am Brewer fan, I would be worried about a fade in September for the big man. I really would.

 

Put this in perspective....on his current pace, he would throw 115 more pitches then he did in 2007. Throw more 761 more pitches in 08 then 06. 544 more pitches then 05. Etc, etc...In other words...each yr he has thrown more pitches then the yr before. Eventually that will catch up with a pitcher. I'm hoping CC stays healthy, but with Yost as a manager, I could see CC flame out in September. His stats say CC will dominate in September, but his manager usage suggest, CC will prolly struggle in a couple of "key starts" in a little.

 

CC has made 9 starts with the Brewers, not 8, so he's averaging 113 pitches per start.

[SouthSideRyan]

Your stats are off somewhere Red, I think it's that you included CC's pitches from tonight but not the actual start in the divide by.

 

CC will certainly throw more pitches this season than he did last year barring some sort of injury. Using BPro's #s, he'd be at 2948 right now with ~7 starts to go after throwing 3581 pitches last year. He should run away with the most pitches thrown crown this year unless Cito Gaston decides he wants to try and bleed a Cy Young season out of Halladay.

[Soul]

Yeah, Sabathia got roughed up in the playoffs, but it's hard to tell if he was overworked or just lost his control because he was so amped up. He admitted that he gets a little nervous for big games, and he can't locate his pitches as well when he's nervous.

 

RedFlash, are you sure those pitch count numbers for Sabathia are correct? I have a hard time believing he's averaged 126 pitches per start when he's only hit 120 twice (this game and the Cubs game), IIRC. Your main point is right on, though...it's eventually going to catch up to him. Unfortunately for Sabathia, he's on such a ridiculous pace right now that he can't possibly keep it up. Once he starts to falter, a lot of people will point to the overuse, but it could just as easily be him regressing back to the mean. If/when he does start regressing, the key will be looking at his velocity...if it's down a notch across the board, I'd say it's pretty obvious it was from overuse. If the velocity is fine and he's just getting hit, it's likely just him regressing back to the mean.

Trouble is, lots of times the velocity stays just fine even though the arm gets tired. Sometimes it's the breaking stuff that flattens out, or the control that falters due to an altered arm motion or release point to relieve discomfort.

 

You can't tell a pitcher is becoming tired solely by pitch speed.

[Choonch]

I will never understand why some managers (Lou included) continue to throw their starters out there to throw a high pitch count game in a blowout. It just makes no sense.

 

Any bullpen should be able to hold a 6 or 7 run lead over the course of an inning or two.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

CC's arm will never fall off because there's too much fat holding it together

[TruffleShuffle]

and it's official, ned yost is the white dusty baker.

[RedFlash]

Your stats are off somewhere Red, I think it's that you included CC's pitches from tonight but not the actual start in the divide by.

 

CC will certainly throw more pitches this season than he did last year barring some sort of injury. Using BPro's #s, he'd be at 2948 right now with ~7 starts to go after throwing 3581 pitches last year. He should run away with the most pitches thrown crown this year unless Cito Gaston decides he wants to try and bleed a Cy Young season out of Halladay.

 

Of course it is. I was only providing the rough draft of what I was saying. The point is.....Ned Yost is riding CC into the ground like he is channeling his inner Dusty Baker.

[olliegjw]

and it's official, ned yost is the white dusty baker.

 

There is a difference between doing it with young arms (Wood and Prior), and doing it with someone who has no chance of being on the team next year. It would be a much different thing if he let Parra go to 130 pitches.

[SouthSideRyan]

and it's official, ned yost is the white dusty baker.

 

There is a difference between doing it with young arms (Wood and Prior), and doing it with someone who has no chance of being on the team next year. It would be a much different thing if he let Parra go to 130 pitches.

 

As has been mentioned, it's not next year that Ned should be worried about, it's CC being worn down in October because he had to throw 20 pitches up by 7 runs in the 9th inning.

[C.C.]

and it's official, ned yost is the white dusty baker.

 

There is a difference between doing it with young arms (Wood and Prior), and doing it with someone who has no chance of being on the team next year. It would be a much different thing if he let Parra go to 130 pitches.

 

But what good could possibly come out of it? There is no reason to let a pitcher pitch 9 innings - 130 pitches in a blowout game. It's just stupid.

[David]

Braun not in the Brewers lineup tonight.