7/2 Cobs (Dempster) @ Giants (Correia), CSN, 9:15pm CDT

[David]

. Starting pitching is so much more important than relief pitching.

 

 

This.

 

I thought some people had made a strong case for the point that Marmol has actually been as valuable (or almost) as a SP due to his level of dominance in high leverage situations.

 

Has that changed with his recent struggles?

[Wilson A2000]

So would anyone include Marmol in a trade to the Indians for Sabathia?

 

Sabbathia is a Cy Young winner.

 

And is only under contract for 3 more months.

 

How long has it been since the Cubs won? Who cares if we lose Sabbathia if that brings them closer to a WS which it will.

[Burtonbell]

Wow..Howry made him look stupid!

[17 Seconds]

So would anyone include Marmol in a trade to the Indians for Sabathia?

 

I would in a heartbeat. Sabbathia is a Cy Young winner. Marmol is great, but not a Cy Young candidate.

 

Are you crazy? What, you trade a very young and dominant relief pitcher just because he has a couple of bad weeks?

For a guy as good as Sabathia, yes without thinking.

 

No kidding. If a reliever can net you a critical position player or starting pitcher an your bullpen is still decent or better without him, you trade him.

 

I don't think our pen is even decent without Marmol.

[jaydee]

Maybe they should just shut him down for a couple weeks or something.

 

i don't think the problem is physical. he doesn't seem to have a very good mental makeup.

 

How do you figure that?

 

 

because he went from striking out 2 guys in 6 pitches to totally imploding.

 

Its not like he went Rich Hill out there. He walked a guy and started getting hit. I don't know how you can blame that on a poor mental makeup. I'd blame it on his stuff not being as sharp.

 

 

his "stuff" was fine until he freaked himself out about throwing strikes.

[Magnetic Curses]

isn't aurilia a cub-killer?

[illiniguy]

. Starting pitching is so much more important than relief pitching.

 

 

This.

 

I thought some people had made a strong case for the point that Marmol has actually been as valuable (or almost) as a SP due to his level of dominance in high leverage situations.

 

Has that changed with his recent struggles?

It is an unknown, Sabbathia isn't. Our team's window is probably two years. We almost have to go for it.

[Schwarber Fan]

So would anyone include Marmol in a trade to the Indians for Sabathia?

 

I would in a heartbeat. Sabbathia is a Cy Young winner. Marmol is great, but not a Cy Young candidate.

 

Are you crazy? What, you trade a very young and dominant relief pitcher just because he has a couple of bad weeks?

For a guy as good as Sabathia, yes without thinking.

 

No kidding. If a reliever can net you a critical position player or starting pitcher an your bullpen is still decent or better without him, you trade him.

 

I don't think our pen is even decent without Marmol.

 

It's OK, just inconsistent.

[BCVM22]

Nice job, Bob.

 

Woody will face Alfonzo, Vizquel and the pitcher's spot.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

. Starting pitching is so much more important than relief pitching.

 

 

This.

 

I thought some people had made a strong case for the point that Marmol has actually been as valuable (or almost) as a SP due to his level of dominance in high leverage situations.

 

Has that changed with his recent struggles?

 

I saw that. I just didn't put a lot of stock in it.

 

I'll take the SP anytime, especially when that SP is Sabathia.

[Schwarber Fan]

insurance please

[badger1679666666]

Thank GOD we have Woody coming in in the 9th. He's the only guy I trust right now.

[illiniguy]

Thank GOD we have Woody coming in in the 9th. He's the only guy I trust right now.

Amen to that.

[Magnetic Curses]

the correct answer is yes, i would include marmol in a trade for cc.

[E.J.]

Thank GOD we have Woody coming in in the 9th. He's the only guy I trust right now.

 

You just jinxed him.

[17 Seconds]

So would anyone include Marmol in a trade to the Indians for Sabathia?

 

Sabbathia is a Cy Young winner.

 

And is only under contract for 3 more months.

 

How long has it been since the Cubs won? Who cares if we lose Sabbathia if that brings them closer to a WS which it will.

 

Yes, it will bring us closer to a World Series for one season, then hurt our chances over the next several years. I think we have a better chance of winning a World Series in the next 5 years if we don't "go for it" to that extreme. I think people aren't realizing how bad our pen could be without a good Marmol anyways.

[third eye]

. Starting pitching is so much more important than relief pitching.

 

 

This.

 

I thought some people had made a strong case for the point that Marmol has actually been as valuable (or almost) as a SP due to his level of dominance in high leverage situations.

 

Has that changed with his recent struggles?

 

I think that was Kyle. Was there a leverage weighted measure of IP?

[BCVM22]

Thank GOD we have Woody coming in in the 9th. He's the only guy I trust right now.

 

You just jinxed him.

 

Leadoff HBP coming up.

[Magnetic Curses]

Thank GOD we have Woody coming in in the 9th. He's the only guy I trust right now.

 

You just jinxed him.

 

if he did, i still feel better. a jinxed wood is better than anything else that we have.

[Burtonbell]

Insurance Run Please?!

[badger1679666666]

No Jinx, Woody will be filthy.

[BCVM22]

No Jinx, Woody will be filthy.

 

I'm holding you to that.

[Guest]

wtf is wrong with Marmol?

 

He was used every game the first couple months. Not surprising that he's fallen a bit.

 

That's total B.S., but I guess facts really aren't welcome in this thread right now.

 

Marmol was on pace for 100+ IP well into June, it's likely he was being overworked.

 

All the pitcher abuse research indicates that purely innings pitched isn't ANY way to judge the stress on arm. High pitch counts, but particuarly, high-stress high pitch counts are more negatively affective on a pitchers arm.

 

I can't side this as pure evidence, but unlike EJ, I'm not gonna toss out hyperbole when it's plainly wrong - Lou to my memory, never used marmol after he went two innings in a game, and rarely used him (if ever) 3 days in a row with out giving him at least a day off. IMO, his appearances were high, but he had some low pitch count outings. Quite a few actually.

 

You're right, he's never thrown the day after throwing 2 IP. He has, however thrown 3 straight days five different times (that's 15 of his 43 outings).

[Wilson A2000]

So would anyone include Marmol in a trade to the Indians for Sabathia?

 

Sabbathia is a Cy Young winner.

 

And is only under contract for 3 more months.

 

How long has it been since the Cubs won? Who cares if we lose Sabbathia if that brings them closer to a WS which it will.

 

Yes, it will bring us closer to a World Series for one season, then hurt our chances over the next several years. I think we have a better chance of winning a World Series in the next 5 years if we don't "go for it" to that extreme. I think people aren't realizing how bad our pen could be without a good Marmol anyways.

 

The NL is down this year and the Cubs are up. After you have waited for 100 years why wait more when it is right there for the taking this year? Do Cub fans learn anything from history? You never know how short the windown can be. Ask the Bears.

Edited July 3, 2008 by Wilson A2000

[Andy]

So would anyone include Marmol in a trade to the Indians for Sabathia?

 

Sabbathia is a Cy Young winner.

 

And is only under contract for 3 more months.

 

How long has it been since the Cubs won? Who cares if we lose Sabbathia if that brings them closer to a WS which it will.

 

Yes, it will bring us closer to a World Series for one season, then hurt our chances over the next several years. I think we have a better chance of winning a World Series in the next 5 years if we don't "go for it" to that extreme. I think people aren't realizing how bad our pen could be without a good Marmol anyways.

It would probably be better than it has been the last two weeks or so without an even remotely acceptable Marmol