Worst-hitting position player in the majors?

[abuck1220]

We've been through this before, then abuck comes along and tell us that the Cubs are just as lucky even though the ratio is about 20:3 for the Cards.

 

please list the 20 cardinals and the 3 cubs.

 

because i can think of four cubs in two seconds w/o even trying.

[Schwarber Fan]

We've been through this before, then abuck comes along and tell us that the Cubs are just as lucky even though the ratio is about 20:3 for the Cards.

 

please list the 20 cardinals and the 3 cubs.

 

because i can think of four cubs in two seconds w/o even trying.

 

Are we just talking current or past as well?

 

2008:

 

Aaron Miles

Braden Looper

Todd Wellemeyer

Kyle Lohse

Skip Schumaker

Brendan Ryan

Jason LaRue

Rick Ankiel

 

past years:

 

Tony Womack

Jeff Weaver

Abraham Nunez

Bo Hart

So Taguchi

 

not 20, but close, and I'm sure I'm forgetting guys

 

For the Cubs:

 

Jim Edmonds

Geovany Soto

Ryan Dempster

[SouthSideRyan]

We've been through this before, then abuck comes along and tell us that the Cubs are just as lucky even though the ratio is about 20:3 for the Cards.

 

please list the 20 cardinals and the 3 cubs.

 

because i can think of four cubs in two seconds w/o even trying.

 

Are we just talking current or past as well?

 

2008:

 

Aaron Miles

Braden Looper

Todd Wellemeyer

Kyle Lohse

Skip Schumaker

Brendan Ryan

Jason LaRue

Rick Ankiel

 

past years:

 

Tony Womack

Jeff Weaver

Abraham Nunez

Bo Hart

So Taguchi

 

not 20, but close, and I'm sure I'm forgetting guys

 

For the Cubs:

 

Jim Edmonds

Geovany Soto

Ryan Dempster

 

By the standards that you're using (Aaron Miles??):

 

Mark DeRosa

Ryan Theriot

Ronny Cedeno

Reed Johnson

Henry Blanco

Kerry Wood

Carlos Marmol

Jason Marquis

[haltz]

So Taguchi?

[Schwarber Fan]

So you're saying Aaron Miles is a .321 hitter? k, right

 

DeRosa was coming off a great year in Texas, that's no surprise

 

I forgot Theriot but everyone else on that list doesn't make sense.

 

All those Cardinals guys have ridiculously overachieved as dirtbirds.

[abuck1220]

weak.

 

looper is the same guy he's always been (actually a little worse)...he's just doing it as a starter. larue's hitting .240. brendan ryan is OPS-ing like .660 and has like 100 ab's.

 

DEAL WITH THE DEVIL!

[haltz]

All those Cardinals guys have ridiculously overachieved as dirtbirds.

The "past years" hitters haven't managed a 100 OPS+ between them. Yeah, they overachieved (I still don't get Taguchi), but three role-players with a collective 90 OPS+ or whatever is what all the fuss is about? Weaver had a 5.18 ERA with the Cardinals and a really good postseason.

[CubbieBum]

weak.

 

looper is the same guy he's always been (actually a little worse)...he's just doing it as a starter. larue's hitting .240. brendan ryan is OPS-ing like .660 and has like 100 ab's.

 

DEAL WITH THE DEVIL!

 

A guy who couldn't cut it as a closer, hadn't started in his nine years playing in the majors is now a winning starting pitcher. You don't find those that often either they can't hold up to the many more pitches or just didn't have it to begin with.

[Derwood]

weak.

 

looper is the same guy he's always been (actually a little worse)...he's just doing it as a starter. larue's hitting .240. brendan ryan is OPS-ing like .660 and has like 100 ab's.

 

DEAL WITH THE DEVIL!

 

A guy who couldn't cut it as a closer, hadn't started in his nine years playing in the majors is now a winning starting pitcher. You don't find those that often either they can't hold up to the many more pitches or just didn't have it to begin with.

 

 

explain Dempster

[XZero771679666304]

weak.

 

looper is the same guy he's always been (actually a little worse)...he's just doing it as a starter. larue's hitting .240. brendan ryan is OPS-ing like .660 and has like 100 ab's.

 

DEAL WITH THE DEVIL!

 

A guy who couldn't cut it as a closer, hadn't started in his nine years playing in the majors is now a winning starting pitcher. You don't find those that often either they can't hold up to the many more pitches or just didn't have it to begin with.

 

 

explain Dempster

 

Dempster was a starter for most of his career, and had success (albeit limited). He also was very good as closer in his first go round. It has always been fairly clear that Ryan is very good when he can locate his pitches. Looper was strictly a reliever until the Cards converted him. Ryan had 3 200+ IP seasons in the past.

 

Now I think Dempster is overachieving, but he =/= Looper.

[haltz]

Through 78 innings last year, Looper had a 4.12 ERA. That's about where he is now. He ended up with a 4.82 ERA last year (and missed 18 days halfway through).

 

For his career, he's about a run worse as a starter than as a reliever. That's about what the prevailing sabermetric opinion is on the difference between starting and relieving. So he's doing about what you'd expect 2007+2008, and could very well fade in the second half for conditioning reasons or whatever.

[abuck1220]

looper's about in line with what you'd expect him to be and dempster's been one of the best starting pitchers in the league. you're right...they're not very similar...dempster's success is WAY more out of leftfield than looper's.

[Schwarber Fan]

Kyle Lohse just won his 9th game of the year tonight. His career high in wins is 14. His ERA is under 4, and his career ERA is almost 5. But this is all normal, right guys? :roll:

[haltz]

ERA+ last year: 100

ERA+ this year: 107 (before tonight)

 

Absolutely crazy in half a season with a league-leading defense.

[JimSorgi]

Kyle Lohse just won his 9th game of the year tonight. His career high in wins is 14.

How is this stat useful?

[Schwarber Fan]

Kyle Lohse just won his 9th game of the year tonight. His career high in wins is 14.

How is this stat useful?

 

I know wins are a bad way of measuring a pitcher, but if you have 9 wins at this point in the season, you're doing something right.

[JimSorgi]

Kyle Lohse just won his 9th game of the year tonight. His career high in wins is 14.

How is this stat useful?

 

I know wins are a bad way of measuring a pitcher, but if you have 9 wins at this point in the season, you're doing something right.

Oh I agree...wait a second, what are Andy Sonnanstine and Braden Looper doing right? Also, Livan Hernandez has 8 wins and he has been awful.

[XZero771679666304]

looper's about in line with what you'd expect him to be and dempster's been one of the best starting pitchers in the league. you're right...they're not very similar...dempster's success is WAY more out of leftfield than looper's.

 

Dempster's level of performance is out of left field, but if you had to pick one or the other as a candidate for a successful conversion to starter, Ryan would have been the much safer bet.

[nolanwood]

We've been through this before, then abuck comes along and tell us that the Cubs are just as lucky even though the ratio is about 20:3 for the Cards.

 

please list the 20 cardinals and the 3 cubs.

 

because i can think of four cubs in two seconds w/o even trying.

 

Are we just talking current or past as well?

 

2008:

 

Aaron Miles

Braden Looper

Todd Wellemeyer

Kyle Lohse

Skip Schumaker

Brendan Ryan

Jason LaRue

Rick Ankiel

 

past years:

 

Tony Womack

Jeff Weaver

Abraham Nunez

Bo Hart

So Taguchi

 

not 20, but close, and I'm sure I'm forgetting guys

 

For the Cubs:

 

Jim Edmonds

Geovany Soto

Ryan Dempster

 

By the standards that you're using (Aaron Miles??):

 

Mark DeRosa

Ryan Theriot

Ronny Cedeno

Reed Johnson

Henry Blanco

Kerry Wood

Carlos Marmol

Jason Marquis

 

 

Derosa actually came into his own in '06 with the Rangers, and has continued this success with the Cubs.

 

Johson's #'s are very similar to his career avg.

 

Marquis hasn't had a better season with us than he had with STL.

 

Kerry Wood? Gimme a break - that's the biggest joke on this list. So he's lucky because he's not hurt?

 

So...what standards are YOU using?

[abuck1220]

instead of whining like pathetic white sox fans about how "lucky" the stupid cardinals are, how about you babies enjoy the cubs' season...after all they have like the best record in the NL.

 

this has been the best cubs season of my lifetime and instead of being able to enjoy it, i come here and have to read you cry babies nitpicking individual plays of the freaking cardinals' season just to see if they are unfairly getting lucky. i mean, seriously, we're sitting here arguing about whether some back up middle infielder is having what you would technically consider a "lucky" season. and if he, is that really fair to the poor cubs??? it's truly pathetic.

 

either all you emo, woe is me cub fans need to get into some other self-hating ritual (cutting perhaps?) or i'm going to have to put you all on ignore.

[CubbieBum]

weak.

 

looper is the same guy he's always been (actually a little worse)...he's just doing it as a starter. larue's hitting .240. brendan ryan is OPS-ing like .660 and has like 100 ab's.

 

DEAL WITH THE DEVIL!

 

A guy who couldn't cut it as a closer, hadn't started in his nine years playing in the majors is now a winning starting pitcher. You don't find those that often either they can't hold up to the many more pitches or just didn't have it to begin with.

 

 

explain Dempster

 

Dempster was a starter for most of his career, and had success (albeit limited). He also was very good as closer in his first go round. It has always been fairly clear that Ryan is very good when he can locate his pitches. Looper was strictly a reliever until the Cards converted him. Ryan had 3 200+ IP seasons in the past.

 

Now I think Dempster is overachieving, but he =/= Looper.

 

 

You asked me to explain but it looks like somebody already did. There's a big difference between being a starter up until a major injury and then coming back to being a starter a few years later and never starting before. Smoltz has done it a couple times and if Wood ever became a starter again it wouldn't be crazy if he succeeded because he ahd done it before. This being said I have no problem with a Cardinal fan saying Demp has pitched way over his head this season because he has, however, it is different than Looper.

[CubbieBum]

instead of whining like pathetic white sox fans about how "lucky" the stupid cardinals are, how about you babies enjoy the cubs' season...after all they have like the best record in the NL.

 

this has been the best cubs season of my lifetime and instead of being able to enjoy it, i come here and have to read you cry babies nitpicking individual plays of the freaking cardinals' season just to see if they are unfairly getting lucky. i mean, seriously, we're sitting here arguing about whether some back up middle infielder is having what you would technically consider a "lucky" season. and if he, is that really fair to the poor cubs??? it's truly pathetic.

 

either all you emo, woe is me cub fans need to get into some other self-hating ritual (cutting perhaps?) or i'm going to have to put you all on ignore.

 

1 in every 20 threads if not much less is about the Cardinals. That is what I would expect since they are the Cubs rival. I haven't looked but I would bet the Cards site and Brewers site has about the same ratio if not higher with threads concerning the Cubs.

[C.C.]

I don't understand why people get upset about mentioning the Cardinals? Not only are they are main rival, but they are right in the thick of it in second place. You go to any board that has rivals and you'll get the same thing.

[nolanwood]

instead of whining like pathetic white sox fans about how "lucky" the stupid cardinals are, how about you babies enjoy the cubs' season...after all they have like the best record in the NL.

 

this has been the best cubs season of my lifetime and instead of being able to enjoy it, i come here and have to read you cry babies nitpicking individual plays of the freaking cardinals' season just to see if they are unfairly getting lucky. i mean, seriously, we're sitting here arguing about whether some back up middle infielder is having what you would technically consider a "lucky" season. and if he, is that really fair to the poor cubs??? it's truly pathetic.

 

either all you emo, woe is me cub fans need to get into some other self-hating ritual (cutting perhaps?) or i'm going to have to put you all on ignore.

 

You entered a thread that had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Cardinals....after more than a handful of posts a poster (with a low post count I might add) makes a joke on the Cardinals... Then you stir the pot instead of going back to Cardinalville and letting this thread stay on topic. You obviously knew that your comments would result in a plethora of retorts your way - you fueled the fire and then have the audacity to complain about it?

 

:good:

[TruffleShuffle]

so, i still think the worst-hitting position player in the majors is dane sardinha? what do you guys think?