jamie moyer

[NewUserName]

I was talking to a good friend, who has a great mind for baseball history. We were talking about Jamie Moyer, and were wondering if there has ever been anyone in baseball history who has pitched for more than 20 years and was basically mediocre as him? There are probably several knuckleballers(charlie hough, joe neikro), but couldnt think of any non-knuckleballers who pitched as long as moyer and were truly mediocre. I think he has 1 all-star game appearance. How many pitchers in baseball history have pitched over 20 yrs and have 1 or no all-star game appearances?

[Tracer Bullet]

mediocre?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

mediocre?

sure, but if you take out all the good seasons he had, whaddya got left?

[jersey cubs fan]

mediocre?

 

David Wells and Kenny Rogers were the two I was thinking before clicking on the link. He was also far more than mediocre as others have noted. He was above average for his career and pretty darn good in several seasons. But I don't believe he was ever great.

[Tracer Bullet]

mediocre?

sure, but if you take out all the good seasons he had, whaddya got left?

 

Take out the 7 seasons of ERA+ over 120? 9 more seasons of ERA+ over 90.

[Tracer Bullet]

mediocre?

 

David Wells and Kenny Rogers were the two I was thinking before clicking on the link. He was also far more than mediocre as others have noted. He was above average for his career and pretty darn good in several seasons. But I don't believe he was ever great.

 

yep. I think the stats speak for themselves.

[TruffleShuffle]

jamie moyer wasn't "mediocre" for much of his career.

 

terry mulholland was the name that jumped to mind for me.

[CubinNY]

This guy.

[jersey cubs fan]

jamie moyer wasn't "mediocre" for much of his career.

 

terry mulholland was the name that jumped to mind for me.

 

That's a great example of a 20-year pitcher who was mediocre.

[Tracer Bullet]

Estes is a good example. Mulholland is too, though for many of those years, calling him "mediocre" would be generous.

[jersey cubs fan]

Estes is a good example. Mulholland is too, though for many of those years, calling him "mediocre" would be generous.

 

Estes is going to have a tough time reaching the 20-year category the original poster talked about.

[BigbadB]

Without researching, the guy who comes to mind most quickly is Jerry Reuss.

[bukie]

El Presidente (Dennis Martinez) pitched for a long time, didn't he?

[CubinNY]

Estes is a good example. Mulholland is too, though for many of those years, calling him "mediocre" would be generous.

 

Estes is going to have a tough time reaching the 20-year category the original poster talked about.

Yea, I agree. It's the best I could come up with.

[Tracer Bullet]

Estes is a good example. Mulholland is too, though for many of those years, calling him "mediocre" would be generous.

 

Estes is going to have a tough time reaching the 20-year category the original poster talked about.

 

Well, Mr. Technicality, the OP said "over 20 years" and Mulholland pitched in only exactly 20 years and that's assuming you count 3 IP in 2006 as a year (he skipped '87, apparently). So he's disqualified too.

 

Or, we can drop the nit picking and just talk generally about mediocre pitchers who pitched for a long time.

[NewUserName]

Ok mediocre may not be the correct term. He has only garnered Cy Young votes 3 times. All later in his career. I dont think anyone at anytime in his career would have said he was one of the top 10 pitchers in baseball. I understand some of this is more perception than fact. I know wins arent a great stat to measure pitchers but he has averaged less than 12 for a career. Take away his 3 best years and his overall W-L record is pretty mediocre.

 

I guess what me and my friend were saying is that Moyer has had a pretty unique career. I also am not trying to rip Moyer. He has always been a player that I have rooted for and thought was underrated before 2000. I was upset when the Cubs traded him.

[jersey cubs fan]

Estes is a good example. Mulholland is too, though for many of those years, calling him "mediocre" would be generous.

 

Estes is going to have a tough time reaching the 20-year category the original poster talked about.

 

Well, Mr. Technicality, the OP said "over 20 years" and Mulholland pitched in only exactly 20 years and that's assuming you count 3 IP in 2006 as a year (he skipped '87, apparently). So he's disqualified too.

 

Or, we can drop the nit picking and just talk generally about mediocre pitchers who pitched for a long time.

 

Not sure how that's nit-picking, the guy was talking about 20+ year guys and Estes is in just his 13th, having barely thrown at all in 4 of those seasons. If you are comping up against Jamie Moyer, I don't see much similarity.

[Tracer Bullet]

Estes is a good example. Mulholland is too, though for many of those years, calling him "mediocre" would be generous.

 

Estes is going to have a tough time reaching the 20-year category the original poster talked about.

 

Well, Mr. Technicality, the OP said "over 20 years" and Mulholland pitched in only exactly 20 years and that's assuming you count 3 IP in 2006 as a year (he skipped '87, apparently). So he's disqualified too.

 

Or, we can drop the nit picking and just talk generally about mediocre pitchers who pitched for a long time.

 

Not sure how that's nit-picking, the guy was talking about 20+ year guys and Estes is in just his 13th, having barely thrown at all in 4 of those seasons. If you are comping up against Jamie Moyer, I don't see much similarity.

 

Seriously? This is worth arguing about?

[champaignchris]

I guess if you want to make the Moyer = longevity despite mediocrity argument, you could point out that he has the highest number of innings pitched for someone with a career ERA over 4. But still, I think Moyer's performance from '96 to '03 speaks for itself. The two really remarkable things about his career is how long he flailed around before really becoming a good pitcher in his 30's, and then how long he's been able to stick in the bigs into his 40's.

 

Other candidates:

 

David Wells

Kenny Rogers

Mike Morgan

Terry Mulholland

[Jehrico]

Moyer's career ERA+ is 105, which I would call slightly above average. He's had several very good years, but numerous bad years as well. What's helped him is that his best years weren't concentrated during his peak age years. They've been spread out, and he's had some of his best years in his late 30s which has kept him going. His success late in his career hasn't been a result of his physical abilities, but rather his pitching smarts.

[Tracer Bullet]

Moyer's career ERA+ is 105, which I would call slightly above average. He's had several very good years, but numerous bad years as well. What's helped him is that his best years weren't concentrated during his peak age years. They've been spread out, and he's had some of his best years in his late 30s which has kept him going. His success late in his career hasn't been a result of his physical abilities, but rather his pitching smarts.

 

He was mediocre until age 33 (with 1 big exception in '93). But his peak years were concentrated, they just weren't in the normal peak age. He pretty clearly peaked from 33-40 (again, with 1 exception - the bad year in 2000). Since then, he's back to mediocre.

 

It really looks like an average player's bell-curve type career, just delayed about 7 years.

[Little Slide Rooter]

How about Kent Mercker? Cant imagine a guy more mediocre than him, and hes pushing 20 years.

[OleMissCub]

Steve Trachsel is in the top 100 all time for games started as a pitcher, yet his winning percentage is .474.

 

Jeff Suppan comes to mind as well.

[biittner77]

It's a simple formula:

be lefthanded+stay healthy+get some people out= long MLB career

 

if you're not lefthanded:

pitch lots of innings+ stay healthy= long MLB career

[Jehrico]

Moyer's career ERA+ is 105, which I would call slightly above average. He's had several very good years, but numerous bad years as well. What's helped him is that his best years weren't concentrated during his peak age years. They've been spread out, and he's had some of his best years in his late 30s which has kept him going. His success late in his career hasn't been a result of his physical abilities, but rather his pitching smarts.

 

He was mediocre until age 33 (with 1 big exception in '93). But his peak years were concentrated, they just weren't in the normal peak age. He pretty clearly peaked from 33-40 (again, with 1 exception - the bad year in 2000). Since then, he's back to mediocre.

 

It really looks like an average player's bell-curve type career, just delayed about 7 years.

I wouldn't call them concentrated, but maybe I'm using the word "peak" more loosely than you. He broke out in '93, then sucked again, then broke back out, had a bad year at 37 in 2000, then defied the odds with a renaissance from 38-40. Then he sucked again for a couple of years before putting up above average numbers in '06. I don't call that concentrated, that's several good to outstanding seasons with a few bad ones mixed in over a 13 year period.

 

Quick bit of trivia on the side...have any other players ever appeared in an all-star game for the first time at age 40? Every other 40 year old I can think of that's made it had been there at least a few times before.