Soriano would make a great D/H

[abuck1220]

leftfielder winning % is the new vorp.

[TruffleShuffle]

what is a D/H

[NCCubFan]

I've said this before, but if Soriano can't reverse his recent injury history I believe he'll have to go to 1B at some point. He's a lousy defensive OF when his legs aren't 100%, he's shown that clearly. And we can't have someone who's owed 100+ million breaking down from leg injuries. If you tell DLee you're going to have to let him walk in 2 years time to clear 1B for Soriano then Lee might see it as being in his interest to accept a trade to a team that will give him an extension. If Soriano has to move to 1B anyway better to do it sooner rather than later so we can get something back for Lee rather than letting Lee walk and getting nothing for him.

Um, no. You don't trade your best player or let him walk so somebody else can move to his position.

[abuck1220]

I've said this before, but if Soriano can't reverse his recent injury history I believe he'll have to go to 1B at some point. He's a lousy defensive OF when his legs aren't 100%, he's shown that clearly. And we can't have someone who's owed 100+ million breaking down from leg injuries. If you tell DLee you're going to have to let him walk in 2 years time to clear 1B for Soriano then Lee might see it as being in his interest to accept a trade to a team that will give him an extension. If Soriano has to move to 1B anyway better to do it sooner rather than later so we can get something back for Lee rather than letting Lee walk and getting nothing for him.

Um, no. You don't trade your best player or let him walk so somebody else can move to his position.

 

you're wasting your time. the whole idea is ridiculous and everyone on the board besides him knows it. it'd be like if i argued for sending ramirez down to AAA and signing kevin orie to play 3b. it's so stupid it's not even worth your time arguing about.

[frostwyrm]

I've said this before, but if Soriano can't reverse his recent injury history I believe he'll have to go to 1B at some point. He's a lousy defensive OF when his legs aren't 100%, he's shown that clearly. And we can't have someone who's owed 100+ million breaking down from leg injuries. If you tell DLee you're going to have to let him walk in 2 years time to clear 1B for Soriano then Lee might see it as being in his interest to accept a trade to a team that will give him an extension. If Soriano has to move to 1B anyway better to do it sooner rather than later so we can get something back for Lee rather than letting Lee walk and getting nothing for him.

Um, no. You don't trade your best player or let him walk so somebody else can move to his position.

 

A) Yeah, Lee's our best player, and everybody in baseball knows how good he is. That's why his trade value would be enormous.

 

B) Soriano is not just "somebody else". He's a guy who has about $115M left on his contract.

[frostwyrm]

I've said this before, but if Soriano can't reverse his recent injury history I believe he'll have to go to 1B at some point. He's a lousy defensive OF when his legs aren't 100%, he's shown that clearly. And we can't have someone who's owed 100+ million breaking down from leg injuries. If you tell DLee you're going to have to let him walk in 2 years time to clear 1B for Soriano then Lee might see it as being in his interest to accept a trade to a team that will give him an extension. If Soriano has to move to 1B anyway better to do it sooner rather than later so we can get something back for Lee rather than letting Lee walk and getting nothing for him.

Um, no. You don't trade your best player or let him walk so somebody else can move to his position.

 

you're wasting your time. the whole idea is ridiculous and everyone on the board besides him knows it. it'd be like if i argued for sending ramirez down to AAA and signing kevin orie to play 3b. it's so stupid it's not even worth your time arguing about.

 

If you had thought about this post before typing it even you could have seen how stupid your analogy is.

[Vanilla Ice]

I've said this before, but if Soriano can't reverse his recent injury history I believe he'll have to go to 1B at some point. He's a lousy defensive OF when his legs aren't 100%, he's shown that clearly. And we can't have someone who's owed 100+ million breaking down from leg injuries. If you tell DLee you're going to have to let him walk in 2 years time to clear 1B for Soriano then Lee might see it as being in his interest to accept a trade to a team that will give him an extension. If Soriano has to move to 1B anyway better to do it sooner rather than later so we can get something back for Lee rather than letting Lee walk and getting nothing for him.

Um, no. You don't trade your best player or let him walk so somebody else can move to his position.

 

you're wasting your time. the whole idea is ridiculous and everyone on the board besides him knows it. it'd be like if i argued for sending ramirez down to AAA and signing kevin orie to play 3b. it's so stupid it's not even worth your time arguing about.

 

If you had thought about this post before typing it even you could have seen how stupid your analogy is.

If you had thought about this proposal before typing it even you could have seen how stupid your trade is.

[Sammy Sofa]

I've said this before, but if Soriano can't reverse his recent injury history I believe he'll have to go to 1B at some point. He's a lousy defensive OF when his legs aren't 100%, he's shown that clearly. And we can't have someone who's owed 100+ million breaking down from leg injuries. If you tell DLee you're going to have to let him walk in 2 years time to clear 1B for Soriano then Lee might see it as being in his interest to accept a trade to a team that will give him an extension. If Soriano has to move to 1B anyway better to do it sooner rather than later so we can get something back for Lee rather than letting Lee walk and getting nothing for him.

Um, no. You don't trade your best player or let him walk so somebody else can move to his position.

 

A) Yeah, Lee's our best player, and everybody in baseball knows how good he is. That's why his trade value would be enormous.

 

B) Soriano is not just "somebody else". He's a guy who has about $115M left on his contract.

 

So if a player is owed a lot of money, trade one of he proven anchors of your team to accomodate the expensive player.

 

Yes, I know they'd likely get a decent return, but it seems ridiculous to shake up the team that much by getting rid of one of the core players to. I've yet to see you provide a projection or anything that shows Soriano would be significantly more likely to be more productive offensively or less of a liability defensively if he moved to 1st. This ultimately amounts to you trying to argue addition by subtraction...trading Lee would create a tremendous offenive hole. They're not likely to get an established player back unless it's a pitcher, and the can't afford to trade a proven player for prospects unless they somehow come across another established impact bat in the meantime.

[Jehrico]

I've said this before, but if Soriano can't reverse his recent injury history I believe he'll have to go to 1B at some point. He's a lousy defensive OF when his legs aren't 100%, he's shown that clearly. And we can't have someone who's owed 100+ million breaking down from leg injuries. If you tell DLee you're going to have to let him walk in 2 years time to clear 1B for Soriano then Lee might see it as being in his interest to accept a trade to a team that will give him an extension. If Soriano has to move to 1B anyway better to do it sooner rather than later so we can get something back for Lee rather than letting Lee walk and getting nothing for him.

Um, no. You don't trade your best player or let him walk so somebody else can move to his position.

 

A) Yeah, Lee's our best player, and everybody in baseball knows how good he is. That's why his trade value would be enormous.

 

B) Soriano is not just "somebody else". He's a guy who has about $115M left on his contract.

 

So if a player is owed a lot of money, trade one of he proven anchors of your team to accomodate the expensive player.

 

Yes, I know they'd likely get a decent return, but it seems ridiculous to shake up the team that much by getting rid of one of the core players to. I've yet to see you provide a projection or anything that shows Soriano would be significantly more likely to be more productive offensively or less of a liability defensively if he moved to 1st. This ultimately amounts to you trying to argue addition by subtraction...trading Lee would create a tremendous offenive hole. They're not likely to get an established player back unless it's a pitcher, and the can't afford to trade a proven player for prospects unless they somehow come across another established impact bat in the meantime.

I wouldn't do it, but I think some of you are being a little harsh on frostwyrm. It's not unfathomable that trading Lee and moving Soriano to first couldn't improve the team. It would depend on what we got back for Lee, which would undoubtedly be alot. The difference is I wouldn't be influenced to do it because of Soriano's health, I'd do it because someone made me an offer for Lee that I couldn't refuse, and it included a better LF in return.

[Sammy Sofa]

I've said this before, but if Soriano can't reverse his recent injury history I believe he'll have to go to 1B at some point. He's a lousy defensive OF when his legs aren't 100%, he's shown that clearly. And we can't have someone who's owed 100+ million breaking down from leg injuries. If you tell DLee you're going to have to let him walk in 2 years time to clear 1B for Soriano then Lee might see it as being in his interest to accept a trade to a team that will give him an extension. If Soriano has to move to 1B anyway better to do it sooner rather than later so we can get something back for Lee rather than letting Lee walk and getting nothing for him.

Um, no. You don't trade your best player or let him walk so somebody else can move to his position.

 

A) Yeah, Lee's our best player, and everybody in baseball knows how good he is. That's why his trade value would be enormous.

 

B) Soriano is not just "somebody else". He's a guy who has about $115M left on his contract.

 

So if a player is owed a lot of money, trade one of he proven anchors of your team to accomodate the expensive player.

 

Yes, I know they'd likely get a decent return, but it seems ridiculous to shake up the team that much by getting rid of one of the core players to. I've yet to see you provide a projection or anything that shows Soriano would be significantly more likely to be more productive offensively or less of a liability defensively if he moved to 1st. This ultimately amounts to you trying to argue addition by subtraction...trading Lee would create a tremendous offenive hole. They're not likely to get an established player back unless it's a pitcher, and the can't afford to trade a proven player for prospects unless they somehow come across another established impact bat in the meantime.

I wouldn't do it, but I think some of you are being a little harsh on frostwyrm. It's not unfathomable that trading Lee and moving Soriano to first couldn't improve the team. It would depend on what we got back for Lee, which would undoubtedly be alot. The difference is I wouldn't be influenced to do it because of Soriano's health, I'd do it because someone made me an offer for Lee that I couldn't refuse, and it included a better LF in return.

 

I agree that it's not a hopeless idea...if it looked like the Cub could get someone (through signings or other trades) to help offset the loss of Lee, great. And maybe under new ownrship, that kind of proactive all around thinking will be part of the Cubs...but until then, I don't trust the Cubs for a second to try such an undertaking and not fail miserably.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Sammy Sofa

[Jehrico]

I agree that it's not a hopeless idea...if it looked like the Cub could get someone (through signings or other trades) to help offset the loss of Lee, great. And maybe under new ownrship, that kind of proactive all around thinking will be part of the Cubs...but until then, I don't trust the Cubs for a second to try such an undertaking and fail miserably.

[Banedon]

So wait...we want the guy that has trouble catching fly balls to field short hops in the dirt at 1B? Let's say he gets 5 plays that he's involved in at LF per game (I have no idea whether this is too high or too low, it's just an arbitrary guess). How many errors would he make if he was at 1B involved in about 20 plays a game?

 

The funny part is, that the strongest defensive part of Soriano's game is his arm, and that's completely nullified at 1B.

[abuck1220]

the obvious solution is to trade ramirez and move soriano to 3b. duh.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Why not put Soriano back at 2b. At least there, his bat would be among the elite second basemen. Then we could go out and get another good hitting LF which is much easier to do.

[CuseCubFan69]

Why not put Soriano back at 2b. At least there, his bat would be among the elite second basemen. Then we could go out and get another good hitting LF which is much easier to do.

 

Out of curiosity, what way is better defensively, Sori at 2B and DeRosa in LF or the way it is now?

[Jehrico]

Why not put Soriano back at 2b. At least there, his bat would be among the elite second basemen. Then we could go out and get another good hitting LF which is much easier to do.

He can't play second. Even if you assume there's no rust from not having played it in two years, he'd be about as good at second as Jose Canseco was as a pitcher.

[Jehrico]

Why not put Soriano back at 2b. At least there, his bat would be among the elite second basemen. Then we could go out and get another good hitting LF which is much easier to do.

 

Out of curiosity, what way is better defensively, Sori at 2B and DeRosa in LF or the way it is now?

DeRo at 2b. Soriano was absolutely embarrassing at 2nd base. I don't think I've ever seen a worse 2b in the last 20 years.

[CuseCubFan69]

Why not put Soriano back at 2b. At least there, his bat would be among the elite second basemen. Then we could go out and get another good hitting LF which is much easier to do.

 

Out of curiosity, what way is better defensively, Sori at 2B and DeRosa in LF or the way it is now?

DeRo at 2b. Soriano was absolutely embarrassing at 2nd base. I don't think I've ever seen a worse 2b in the last 20 years.

 

He was a SS, was he really that bad there? I thought Washington moved him because they already had Vidro there but I do remember not being the best 2B in MLB.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Why not put Soriano back at 2b. At least there, his bat would be among the elite second basemen. Then we could go out and get another good hitting LF which is much easier to do.

 

Out of curiosity, what way is better defensively, Sori at 2B and DeRosa in LF or the way it is now?

 

In that situation, I'd definitely say DeRosa at 2nd and Soriano in LF.

 

But, when looking to improve the team this year and the future, it would be easier to add offense in LF than at second. Soriano was no great shakes at secondbase. But he could play the position. At second, we remove his fear of having to run into a wall and there's few plays at second where he would have to go into a full sprint which is something he's refusing to do in LF.

 

For example, if we were looking to upgrade the team at the deadline. Adding a 2b, it's pretty much Brian Roberts. The other guys that would be there are no better than what we have. And next year's FA class, we could go after Orlando Hudson, but after him not much there.

 

But, if Soriano were moved to second, there's a larger group of players who could come in and play LF. Adam Dunn might be available in trade and will be a FA at the end of the season. Pat Burrell will be a FA after this season. Raul Ibanez will be a FA or could be available in trade. Leftfield is a much easier spot to add a bat than second.

 

So, while the current configuration is better than just swapping Soriano and DeRosa, if given the choice of DeRosa at 2b and Soriano in LF with Soriano at 2b and Adam Dunn in LF, I'll take option two.

[CubColtPacer]

The problem with Soriano at second now is that he is having a problem getting started. His first few steps are taking longer than normal. His range at 2nd would probably be even worse than his range in left. Then of course that would make him dive for more balls, and that would cause a lot more stress on his legs. I think he would struggle there and get hurt more.

 

It's not a thing the Cubs should really be considering until DeRosa's contract runs out, anyway. With questions with both the starting rotation and bullpen after this year, I'm not sure the Cubs could afford to take on another 13-15 million dollar offensive player, and that's what it would take to be an upgrade on the current setup.

Edited May 27, 2008 by CubColtPacer

[CuseCubFan69]

Why not put Soriano back at 2b. At least there, his bat would be among the elite second basemen. Then we could go out and get another good hitting LF which is much easier to do.

 

Out of curiosity, what way is better defensively, Sori at 2B and DeRosa in LF or the way it is now?

 

In that situation, I'd definitely say DeRosa at 2nd and Soriano in LF.

 

But, when looking to improve the team this year and the future, it would be easier to add offense in LF than at second. Soriano was no great shakes at secondbase. But he could play the position. At second, we remove his fear of having to run into a wall and there's few plays at second where he would have to go into a full sprint which is something he's refusing to do in LF.

 

For example, if we were looking to upgrade the team at the deadline. Adding a 2b, it's pretty much Brian Roberts. The other guys that would be there are no better than what we have. And next year's FA class, we could go after Orlando Hudson, but after him not much there.

 

But, if Soriano were moved to second, there's a larger group of players who could come in and play LF. Adam Dunn might be available in trade and will be a FA at the end of the season. Pat Burrell will be a FA after this season. Raul Ibanez will be a FA or could be available in trade. Leftfield is a much easier spot to add a bat than second.

 

So, while the current configuration is better than just swapping Soriano and DeRosa, if given the choice of DeRosa at 2b and Soriano in LF with Soriano at 2b and Adam Dunn in LF, I'll take option two.

 

I wonder how Soriano would react to being replaced in a close game defensively? That would make a nice offense regarding the players you mentioned and I'd like some more swing and miss pitchers because of that D.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Why not put Soriano back at 2b. At least there, his bat would be among the elite second basemen. Then we could go out and get another good hitting LF which is much easier to do.

 

Out of curiosity, what way is better defensively, Sori at 2B and DeRosa in LF or the way it is now?

 

In that situation, I'd definitely say DeRosa at 2nd and Soriano in LF.

 

But, when looking to improve the team this year and the future, it would be easier to add offense in LF than at second. Soriano was no great shakes at secondbase. But he could play the position. At second, we remove his fear of having to run into a wall and there's few plays at second where he would have to go into a full sprint which is something he's refusing to do in LF.

 

For example, if we were looking to upgrade the team at the deadline. Adding a 2b, it's pretty much Brian Roberts. The other guys that would be there are no better than what we have. And next year's FA class, we could go after Orlando Hudson, but after him not much there.

 

But, if Soriano were moved to second, there's a larger group of players who could come in and play LF. Adam Dunn might be available in trade and will be a FA at the end of the season. Pat Burrell will be a FA after this season. Raul Ibanez will be a FA or could be available in trade. Leftfield is a much easier spot to add a bat than second.

 

So, while the current configuration is better than just swapping Soriano and DeRosa, if given the choice of DeRosa at 2b and Soriano in LF with Soriano at 2b and Adam Dunn in LF, I'll take option two.

 

I wonder how Soriano would react to being replaced in a close game defensively? That would make a nice offense regarding the players you mentioned and I'd like some more swing and miss pitchers because of that D.

 

It comes down to maximizing what we have. We're on the hook for Soriano's money. It's not likely we could trade that contract, so unless he gets his speed back and becomes a 40/40 player in LF, he's likely not going to be worth what we're paying him. As LF's go, he's probably going to be middle of the pack. He won't be the worst in production, but he won't be the best.

 

Right now, Soriano is 8th in all of MLB Leftfielders in OPS. That same OPS at second would have him fourth. As his skills with the bat deteriorate, he's going to become more of a liability to trot out in LF than he will at second.

[Jehrico]

Why not put Soriano back at 2b. At least there, his bat would be among the elite second basemen. Then we could go out and get another good hitting LF which is much easier to do.

 

Out of curiosity, what way is better defensively, Sori at 2B and DeRosa in LF or the way it is now?

DeRo at 2b. Soriano was absolutely embarrassing at 2nd base. I don't think I've ever seen a worse 2b in the last 20 years.

 

He was a SS, was he really that bad there? I thought Washington moved him because they already had Vidro there but I do remember not being the best 2B in MLB.

Vidro was no longer a good 2bman at that time, and they let him have the slot over Soriano. Soriano was the worst defensive 2b while in Texas that I ever recall seeing. He was nothing less than an absolute butcher.

[CuseCubFan69]

So, while the current configuration is better than just swapping Soriano and DeRosa, if given the choice of DeRosa at 2b and Soriano in LF with Soriano at 2b and Adam Dunn in LF, I'll take option two.

 

I wonder how Soriano would react to being replaced in a close game defensively? That would make a nice offense regarding the players you mentioned and I'd like some more swing and miss pitchers because of that D.

 

It comes down to maximizing what we have. We're on the hook for Soriano's money. It's not likely we could trade that contract, so unless he gets his speed back and becomes a 40/40 player in LF, he's likely not going to be worth what we're paying him. As LF's go, he's probably going to be middle of the pack. He won't be the worst in production, but he won't be the best.

 

Right now, Soriano is 8th in all of MLB Leftfielders in OPS. That same OPS at second would have him fourth. As his skills with the bat deteriorate, he's going to become more of a liability to trot out in LF than he will at second.

 

Just get Utley to play 2nd, problem solved! Second might be more physically demanding than LF though and if Sori can't handle LF, second could be worse.

[abuck1220]

can't believe i haven't thought of this until now...move soriano to the mound. everyone admits he has a great arm. if he's pitching, neither his inconsistent bat nor his bad defense will hurt the cubs.