Rick Ankiel

[haltz]

Yea thats the only reason people here mention HGH when discussing Ankiel. Has nothing to do with any kind of actual report that came out last year accusing him of it, and him admitting to it. That couldnt be it at all.

That's not what I said at all. It was talked about forever on Cardinals forums.

 

This is a Cubs forum, and I don't care if people here or anywhere want to pick on players for whatever. But lumping in people that used HGH at one point or another with players that used steroids or actual performance enhancers is a pet peeve, like I said. That's all. Carry on, and mentioning Soto was a poor way to make a point. It (hopefully) obviously had nothing to do with him per se.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yea thats the only reason people here mention HGH when discussing Ankiel. Has nothing to do with any kind of actual report that came out last year accusing him of it, and him admitting to it. That couldnt be it at all.

That's not what I said at all. It was talked about forever on Cardinals forums.

 

This is a Cubs forum, and I don't care if people here or anywhere want to pick on players for whatever. But lumping in people that used HGH at one point or another with players that used steroids or actual performance enhancers is a pet peeve, like I said. That's all. Carry on, and mentioning Soto was a poor way to make a point. It (hopefully) obviously had nothing to do with him per se.

 

It's a pet peeve because your guy did HGH, what a surprise.

[haltz]

It's a pet peeve because your guy did HGH, what a surprise.

Not really, it's a pet peeve because the MSM has been doing it for years. Long after the non-efficacy of HGH wasn't news anymore.

[illiniguy]

It's a pet peeve because your guy did HGH, what a surprise.

Not really, it's a pet peeve because the MSM has been doing it for years. Long after the non-efficacy of HGH wasn't news anymore.

Right, there are no benefits at all from using HGH. Ok.

[haltz]

Right, there are no benefits at all from using HGH. Ok.

Not for non-deficient baseball players. link

[illiniguy]

Right, there are no benefits at all from using HGH. Ok.

Not for non-deficient baseball players. link

So then Ankiel just took it after he got hurt to look ripped. Ok. Whatever lets you think he didn't cheat and is a natural I guess.

[haltz]

Right, there are no benefits at all from using HGH. Ok.

Not for non-deficient baseball players. link

So then Ankiel just took it after he got hurt to look ripped. Ok. Whatever lets you think he didn't cheat and is a natural I guess.

He took it because he thought it would help him. I said as much in my first post.

 

If someone wants to call that cheating then that's fine (I don't even remember if it was banned or not), it's just not performance enhancing. It's not about what I think anyway. It's the prevailing medical opinion. My fandom has nothing to do with the argument.

[treebird]

Right, there are no benefits at all from using HGH. Ok.

Not for non-deficient baseball players. link

So then Ankiel just took it after he got hurt to look ripped. Ok. Whatever lets you think he didn't cheat and is a natural I guess.

He took it because he thought it would help him. I said as much in my first post.

 

If someone wants to call that cheating then that's fine (I don't even remember if it was banned or not), it's just not performance enhancing. It's not about what I think anyway. It's the prevailing medical opinion. My fandom has nothing to do with the argument.

 

i'm not sure what argument you're trying to make here, but ankiel definitely was/is a cheater. i really don't know what kind of defense this is supposed to be, if it even is a defense. "it probably didn't do anything, so it's okay and i still love the [expletive] players who cheat and screw up baseball."

[haltz]

i'm not sure what argument you're trying to make here, but ankiel definitely was/is a cheater. i really don't know what kind of defense this is supposed to be, if it even is a defense. "it probably didn't do anything, so it's okay and i still love the [expletive] players who cheat and screw up baseball."

My argument is that it doesn't help you play baseball, which is a common misconception. That was my point in my first post and it's my point now. I'm not defending anyone's intentions. The moral argument isn't one I'm interested in because it's a blind alley and I understand differing viewpoints.

[imb]

wait a minute i thought this guy was a brewers fan

 

anyway, what a terrible argument

[illiniguy]

wait a minute i thought this guy was a brewers fan

 

anyway, what a terrible argument

What, you don't like the whell he tried to cheat, but failed at it. But, hey he learned his lesson and won't try and cheat again defense? The guy is a cheater and should have been suspended like everyone else who has been caught.

[Andy]

Personally, I already had heard that HGH doesn't help much, and don't really care about that. But I sure as hell hate Rick Ankiel and all the other absurd examples of things that just don't happen to franchises that aren't the Cardinals.

[wolf stansson]

wait a minute i thought this guy was a brewers fan

 

anyway, what a terrible argument

What, you don't like the whell he tried to cheat, but failed at it. But, hey he learned his lesson and won't try and cheat again defense? The guy is a cheater and should have been suspended like everyone else who has been caught.

Seriously, reread his posts if you even read them in the first place.

 

Here is Haltz's point: Regardless of what team a player plays for, if they take HGH, they aren't really helping their performance. This is the conclusion that doctors and scientists have come up with. They cheat, yes, but they aren't actually affecting their performance on the field. Thus, dismissing Ankiel's outfield putouts as "another half cup" or whatever is dumb.

 

This isn't the place for Haltz to make the point, nor did he do it in the clearest way possible, but most of you would be smart enough to figure out what he was saying had the name "Rick Ankiel" or "St. Louis Cardinals" not been involved.

[illiniguy]

wait a minute i thought this guy was a brewers fan

 

anyway, what a terrible argument

What, you don't like the whell he tried to cheat, but failed at it. But, hey he learned his lesson and won't try and cheat again defense? The guy is a cheater and should have been suspended like everyone else who has been caught.

Seriously, reread his posts if you even read them in the first place.

 

Here is Haltz's point: Regardless of what team a player plays for, if they take HGH, they aren't really helping their performance. This is the conclusion that doctors and scientists have come up with. They cheat, yes, but they aren't actually affecting their performance on the field. Thus, dismissing Ankiel's outfield putouts as "another half cup" or whatever is dumb.

 

This isn't the place for Haltz to make the point, nor did he do it in the clearest way possible, but most of you would be smart enough to figure out what he was saying had the name "Rick Ankiel" or "St. Louis Cardinals" not been involved.

Seriously he cheated, whether it worked or not. He should be punished like everyone else. Can you read that?

[haltz]

Seriously he cheated, whether it worked or not. He should be punished like everyone else. Can you read that?

Am I arguing that? It apparently wasn't banned so he couldn't have been suspended, no matter how despicable you think it is. And I don't care if you do. That's perfectly fine. Wolf's right that this isn't the place and I didn't make my point well, but that's definitely not what I'm arguing.

Edited May 7, 2008 by haltz

[wolf stansson]

wait a minute i thought this guy was a brewers fan

 

anyway, what a terrible argument

What, you don't like the whell he tried to cheat, but failed at it. But, hey he learned his lesson and won't try and cheat again defense? The guy is a cheater and should have been suspended like everyone else who has been caught.

Seriously, reread his posts if you even read them in the first place.

 

Here is Haltz's point: Regardless of what team a player plays for, if they take HGH, they aren't really helping their performance. This is the conclusion that doctors and scientists have come up with. They cheat, yes, but they aren't actually affecting their performance on the field. Thus, dismissing Ankiel's outfield putouts as "another half cup" or whatever is dumb.

 

This isn't the place for Haltz to make the point, nor did he do it in the clearest way possible, but most of you would be smart enough to figure out what he was saying had the name "Rick Ankiel" or "St. Louis Cardinals" not been involved.

Seriously he cheated, whether it worked or not. He should be punished like everyone else. Can you read that?

Where have I ever said anything to the contrary, Captain I Like to Put Words In People's Mouths? Seriously, stop it.

[illiniguy]

wait a minute i thought this guy was a brewers fan

 

anyway, what a terrible argument

What, you don't like the whell he tried to cheat, but failed at it. But, hey he learned his lesson and won't try and cheat again defense? The guy is a cheater and should have been suspended like everyone else who has been caught.

Seriously, reread his posts if you even read them in the first place.

 

Here is Haltz's point: Regardless of what team a player plays for, if they take HGH, they aren't really helping their performance. This is the conclusion that doctors and scientists have come up with. They cheat, yes, but they aren't actually affecting their performance on the field. Thus, dismissing Ankiel's outfield putouts as "another half cup" or whatever is dumb.

 

This isn't the place for Haltz to make the point, nor did he do it in the clearest way possible, but most of you would be smart enough to figure out what he was saying had the name "Rick Ankiel" or "St. Louis Cardinals" not been involved.

Seriously he cheated, whether it worked or not. He should be punished like everyone else. Can you read that?

Where have I ever said anything to the contrary, Captain I Like to Put Words In People's Mouths? Seriously, stop it.

Namecalling really isn't allowed here.

[wolf stansson]

wait a minute i thought this guy was a brewers fan

 

anyway, what a terrible argument

What, you don't like the whell he tried to cheat, but failed at it. But, hey he learned his lesson and won't try and cheat again defense? The guy is a cheater and should have been suspended like everyone else who has been caught.

Seriously, reread his posts if you even read them in the first place.

 

Here is Haltz's point: Regardless of what team a player plays for, if they take HGH, they aren't really helping their performance. This is the conclusion that doctors and scientists have come up with. They cheat, yes, but they aren't actually affecting their performance on the field. Thus, dismissing Ankiel's outfield putouts as "another half cup" or whatever is dumb.

 

This isn't the place for Haltz to make the point, nor did he do it in the clearest way possible, but most of you would be smart enough to figure out what he was saying had the name "Rick Ankiel" or "St. Louis Cardinals" not been involved.

Seriously he cheated, whether it worked or not. He should be punished like everyone else. Can you read that?

Where have I ever said anything to the contrary, Captain I Like to Put Words In People's Mouths? Seriously, stop it.

Namecalling really isn't allowed here.

Oh really? Are you a mod? I wasn't aware. If any of them have a problem, they can tell me. Otherwise, stop being so thick. I've never seen you be involved in a thread where you didn't take someone's words out of context to make an annoying point or just flat out make something up that isn't there.

[illiniguy]

wait a minute i thought this guy was a brewers fan

 

anyway, what a terrible argument

What, you don't like the whell he tried to cheat, but failed at it. But, hey he learned his lesson and won't try and cheat again defense? The guy is a cheater and should have been suspended like everyone else who has been caught.

Seriously, reread his posts if you even read them in the first place.

 

Here is Haltz's point: Regardless of what team a player plays for, if they take HGH, they aren't really helping their performance. This is the conclusion that doctors and scientists have come up with. They cheat, yes, but they aren't actually affecting their performance on the field. Thus, dismissing Ankiel's outfield putouts as "another half cup" or whatever is dumb.

 

This isn't the place for Haltz to make the point, nor did he do it in the clearest way possible, but most of you would be smart enough to figure out what he was saying had the name "Rick Ankiel" or "St. Louis Cardinals" not been involved.

Seriously he cheated, whether it worked or not. He should be punished like everyone else. Can you read that?

Where have I ever said anything to the contrary, Captain I Like to Put Words In People's Mouths? Seriously, stop it.

Namecalling really isn't allowed here.

Oh really? Are you a mod? I wasn't aware. If any of them have a problem, they can tell me. Otherwise, stop being so thick. I've never seen you be involved in a thread where you didn't take someone's words out of context to make an annoying point or just flat out make something up that isn't there.

You were actually the one who started barking orders. You know back when you said seriously stop it. So are you a mod?

[imb]

but seriously, hgh does help baseball players

[SABR Gamer]

Video of the throws

[SABR Gamer]

but seriously, hgh does help baseball players

 

Yeah, it helps you recover faster and makes your body less tired. Ankiel could keep his performance up when he would have started to tire, and he could play through/avoid altogether any of the daily minor injuries/pains of playing every day.

[OleMissCub]

If someone wants to call that cheating then that's fine (I don't even remember if it was banned or not), it's just not performance enhancing.

 

You are right. Players in their late 30's win 4 straight MVP's all the time.

[illiniguy]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3009424

 

Hey another Cardinal player's name makes an appearance in that article.

[wolf stansson]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3009424

 

Hey another Cardinal player's name makes an appearance in that article.

You're a gigantic troll. That has nothing to do with this thread.