Should Theriot go back to leading off?

[NCCubFan]

Remember when we gave Ronny a chance at short in 2006?

Yes I do. Do YOU remember when Mike Schmidt hit .196 as a rookie? The Phillies obviously should have released that worthless bum.

[SABR Gamer]

am i the only person who thinks Cedeno's gaudy stats would be considerably lower with additional ABs?

 

a full month of .400 on-base and Theriot still can't get anybody off his back on here. tough crowd.

 

Exactly. I think if Ryan Theriot hit like .350 over 5 months people here would still he sucks. I mean he must be doing something right he is the starting shortstop on probably the best team in the NL Central.

 

The best team in a bad division isn't impressive, and all that does is tell you how good the rest of the lineup is if they are still the best despite having Theriot playing every day.

 

I hate having a guy hitting .322 in my line up good call

 

Ok I lied, I'm going to say something.

 

How long do you expect him to keep this up? Be honest.

 

He has been doing if for a month now. next month when he is still hitting over .300 what are you going to say? He can never be good enough for you I can tell that already.

 

He was hitting .300 May 19th last year, and finished .266, and in the minors he hit .252, .249, .273(IN A+ BALL AT AGE 24!!), he didn't have even a respectable average in the minors til he was 25 years old... Cedeno hit .355 in AAA at age 22, and then .359 at age 24... So to compare their age 22 seasons, Ryan Theriot was down in A ball hitting .252, while Cedeno was in AAA hitting .355, Cedeno is so much better this shouldn't even be a discussion.

[The-Riot]

Remember when we gave Ronny a chance at short in 2006?

Yes I do. Do YOU remember when Mike Schmidt hit .196 as a rookie? The Phillies obviously should have released that worthless bum.

 

You just compared Ronny Cedeno to Mike Schmidt......................................................................................................................................................................................

[sneakypower]

it really is a legitimate question as to why there's so much grousing about a player who has OBP'd .400 for us thus far and the ignorance has festered to the point that these types of asinine statements are being made

all that does is tell you how good the rest of the lineup is if they are still the best despite having Theriot playing every day.

[The-Riot]

am i the only person who thinks Cedeno's gaudy stats would be considerably lower with additional ABs?

 

a full month of .400 on-base and Theriot still can't get anybody off his back on here. tough crowd.

 

Exactly. I think if Ryan Theriot hit like .350 over 5 months people here would still he sucks. I mean he must be doing something right he is the starting shortstop on probably the best team in the NL Central.

 

The best team in a bad division isn't impressive, and all that does is tell you how good the rest of the lineup is if they are still the best despite having Theriot playing every day.

 

I hate having a guy hitting .322 in my line up good call

 

Ok I lied, I'm going to say something.

 

How long do you expect him to keep this up? Be honest.

 

He has been doing if for a month now. next month when he is still hitting over .300 what are you going to say? He can never be good enough for you I can tell that already.

 

He was hitting .300 May 19th last year, and finished .266, and in the minors he hit .252, .249, .273(IN A+ BALL AT AGE 24!!), he didn't have even a respectable average in the minors til he was 25 years old... Cedeno hit .355 in AAA at age 22, and then .359 at age 24... So to compare their age 22 seasons, Ryan Theriot was down in A ball hitting .252, while Cedeno was in AAA hitting .355, Cedeno is so much better this shouldn't even be a discussion.

 

In 2006 Ronny Cedeno as the everyday starter hit .245

[SABR Gamer]

Remember when we gave Ronny a chance at short in 2006?

Yes I do. Do YOU remember when Mike Schmidt hit .196 as a rookie? The Phillies obviously should have released that worthless bum.

 

You just compared Ronny Cedeno to Mike Schmidt......................................................................................................................................................................................

 

 

Mike Schmidt was a rookie at one time too. All established players were there at some point. I'm not saying that Ronny Cedeno is Mike Schmidt, but it's not like everyone knew Mike Schmidt would be Mike Schmidt either. (I hope not at least, I wasn't alive back then but I assume that after a .196 rookie year people weren't talking about how he was destined for the HOF)

[SABR Gamer]

it really is a legitimate question as to why there's so much grousing about a player who has OBP'd .400 for us thus far and the ignorance has festered to the point that these types of asinine statements are being made

all that does is tell you how good the rest of the lineup is if they are still the best despite having Theriot playing every day.

 

 

Come on, Theriot's offensive numbers don't account for the runs he has cost the team on the base path, he has been pretty good with the bat, but even when he could be giving us reasons to support him he's canceling them out with bad mental baseball. I just doubt his ability. I'm hoping he can prove me wrong though.

[NCCubFan]

Remember when we gave Ronny a chance at short in 2006?

Yes I do. Do YOU remember when Mike Schmidt hit .196 as a rookie? The Phillies obviously should have released that worthless bum.

 

You just compared Ronny Cedeno to Mike Schmidt......................................................................................................................................................................................

Yes, to point out the absurdity of basing playing time decisions for THIS year based on a player's performance AS A ROOKIE TWO YEARS AGO.

[The-Riot]

Remember when we gave Ronny a chance at short in 2006?

Yes I do. Do YOU remember when Mike Schmidt hit .196 as a rookie? The Phillies obviously should have released that worthless bum.

 

You just compared Ronny Cedeno to Mike Schmidt......................................................................................................................................................................................

Yes, to point out the absurdity of basing playing time decisions for THIS year based on a player's performance AS A ROOKIE TWO YEARS AGO.

 

But its better to base how good a player is by 1 month of spot starts and pinch hitting?

[NCCubFan]

In 2006 Ronny Cedeno as the everyday starter hit .245

In 1973 Mike Schmidt as the everyday starter hit .196.

 

In 1986 Barry Bonds as the everyday starter hit .223.

 

In 1990 Sammy Sosa as the everyday starter hit .233.

 

So enough judging a player based on his first year as an everyday starter.

[NCCubFan]

Remember when we gave Ronny a chance at short in 2006?

Yes I do. Do YOU remember when Mike Schmidt hit .196 as a rookie? The Phillies obviously should have released that worthless bum.

 

You just compared Ronny Cedeno to Mike Schmidt......................................................................................................................................................................................

Yes, to point out the absurdity of basing playing time decisions for THIS year based on a player's performance AS A ROOKIE TWO YEARS AGO.

 

But its better to base how good a player is by 1 month of spot starts and pinch hitting?

When that performance is THIS year and our argument is based on TWO YEARS AGO, yes.

[The-Riot]

In 2006 Ronny Cedeno as the everyday starter hit .245

In 1973 Mike Schmidt as the everyday starter hit .196.

 

In 1986 Barry Bonds as the everyday starter hit .223.

 

In 1990 Sammy Sosa as the everyday starter hit .233.

 

So enough judging a player based on his first year as an everyday starter.

 

Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa had a little help im guessing

[The-Riot]

Remember when we gave Ronny a chance at short in 2006?

Yes I do. Do YOU remember when Mike Schmidt hit .196 as a rookie? The Phillies obviously should have released that worthless bum.

 

You just compared Ronny Cedeno to Mike Schmidt......................................................................................................................................................................................

Yes, to point out the absurdity of basing playing time decisions for THIS year based on a player's performance AS A ROOKIE TWO YEARS AGO.

 

But its better to base how good a player is by 1 month of spot starts and pinch hitting?

When that performance is THIS year and our argument is based on TWO YEARS AGO, yes.

 

Yeah because if he started every game this year he would be hitting .380?

[SABR Gamer]

In 2006 Ronny Cedeno as the everyday starter hit .245

In 1973 Mike Schmidt as the everyday starter hit .196.

 

In 1986 Barry Bonds as the everyday starter hit .223.

 

In 1990 Sammy Sosa as the everyday starter hit .233.

 

So enough judging a player based on his first year as an everyday starter.

 

Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa had a little help im guessing

 

lol both of them were very good players before they started to juice

[NCCubFan]

Remember when we gave Ronny a chance at short in 2006?

Yes I do. Do YOU remember when Mike Schmidt hit .196 as a rookie? The Phillies obviously should have released that worthless bum.

 

You just compared Ronny Cedeno to Mike Schmidt......................................................................................................................................................................................

Yes, to point out the absurdity of basing playing time decisions for THIS year based on a player's performance AS A ROOKIE TWO YEARS AGO.

 

But its better to base how good a player is by 1 month of spot starts and pinch hitting?

When that performance is THIS year and our argument is based on TWO YEARS AGO, yes.

 

Yeah because if he started every game this year he would be hitting .380?

I'm not going to continue this debate. I'm not going to change your mind, you're not going to change my mine, and ultimately the only mind that matters is Lou's.

[Rob]

Remember when we gave Ronny a chance at short in 2006?

Yes I do. Do YOU remember when Mike Schmidt hit .196 as a rookie? The Phillies obviously should have released that worthless bum.

 

You just compared Ronny Cedeno to Mike Schmidt........................................../quote]Yes, to point out the absurdity of basing playing time decisions for THIS year based on a player's performance AS A ROOKIE TWO YEARS AGO.

 

But its better to base how good a player is by 1 month of spot starts and pinch hitting?

 

And I suppose Theriot has hit the magic number of plate appearances where his performance must be real?

 

Every comparison that can be made between the two players favors Cedeno at this point. He's hitting for a higher average, drawing more walks, hitting for more power, playing better defense, running the bases well... and everybody is in agreement that his ceiling his higher anyways.

 

What's the excuse for playing him over Cedeno? That he's the incumbent? That kind of risk-averse management is exactly the reason teams lose more games than their talent should. Seriously... somebody here needs to give me one legitimate point in Theriots favor versus Cedeno. I haven't heard any yet.

[The-Riot]

Remember when we gave Ronny a chance at short in 2006?

Yes I do. Do YOU remember when Mike Schmidt hit .196 as a rookie? The Phillies obviously should have released that worthless bum.

 

You just compared Ronny Cedeno to Mike Schmidt......................................................................................................................................................................................

Yes, to point out the absurdity of basing playing time decisions for THIS year based on a player's performance AS A ROOKIE TWO YEARS AGO.

 

But its better to base how good a player is by 1 month of spot starts and pinch hitting?

When that performance is THIS year and our argument is based on TWO YEARS AGO, yes.

 

Yeah because if he started every game this year he would be hitting .380?

I'm not going to continue this debate. I'm not going to change your mind, you're not going to change my mine, and ultimately the only mind that matters is Lou's.

 

Agreed

[SABR Gamer]

Remember when we gave Ronny a chance at short in 2006?

Yes I do. Do YOU remember when Mike Schmidt hit .196 as a rookie? The Phillies obviously should have released that worthless bum.

 

You just compared Ronny Cedeno to Mike Schmidt......................................................................................................................................................................................

Yes, to point out the absurdity of basing playing time decisions for THIS year based on a player's performance AS A ROOKIE TWO YEARS AGO.

 

But its better to base how good a player is by 1 month of spot starts and pinch hitting?

When that performance is THIS year and our argument is based on TWO YEARS AGO, yes.

 

Yeah because if he started every game this year he would be hitting .380?

I'm not going to continue this debate. I'm not going to change your mind, you're not going to change my mine, and ultimately the only mind that matters is Lou's.

 

Agreed

 

Just remember, NCCubFan's opinion is the correct opinion.

[inari]

Remember when we gave Ronny a chance at short in 2006?

Yes I do. Do YOU remember when Mike Schmidt hit .196 as a rookie? The Phillies obviously should have released that worthless bum.

 

You just compared Ronny Cedeno to Mike Schmidt......................................................................................................................................................................................

Yes, to point out the absurdity of basing playing time decisions for THIS year based on a player's performance AS A ROOKIE TWO YEARS AGO.

 

But its better to base how good a player is by 1 month of spot starts and pinch hitting?

When that performance is THIS year and our argument is based on TWO YEARS AGO, yes.

 

Yeah because if he started every game this year he would be hitting .380?

I'm not going to continue this debate. I'm not going to change your mind, you're not going to change my mine, and ultimately the only mind that matters is Lou's.

 

Agreed

 

Just remember, NCCubFan's opinion is the correct opinion.

 

Yes. That.

[rocket]

I hate guys who get thrown out stealing every 5 games and can't make plays at SS because of a mediocre arm and mediocre range.

 

Funny because I like guys who hit over .300 and get on base.

 

neifi perez in april 2005

 

.368/.403/.559

[rocket]

Remember when we gave Ronny a chance at short in 2006?

Yes I do. Do YOU remember when Mike Schmidt hit .196 as a rookie? The Phillies obviously should have released that worthless bum.

 

You just compared Ronny Cedeno to Mike Schmidt......................................................................................................................................................................................

 

no kidding. cedeno's gonna be a lot better.

[Andy]

But its better to base how good a player is by 1 month of spot starts and pinch hitting?

That's funny because the legend of Ryan Theriot began when he played well in 2006 doing exactly that.

[BigbadB]

But its better to base how good a player is by 1 month of spot starts and pinch hitting?

That's funny because the legend of Ryan Theriot began when he played well in 2006 doing exactly that.

 

The prosecution rests, your honor!

[soapy]

am i the only person who thinks Cedeno's gaudy stats would be considerably lower with additional ABs?

 

a full month of .400 on-base and Theriot still can't get anybody off his back on here. tough crowd.

 

neither Theriot nor Cedeno should be expected to maintain their current numbers. however, Cedeno is much more likely to put up superior numbers over a full season. it's not a tough concept.

[TruffleShuffle]

In 2006 Ronny Cedeno as the everyday starter hit .245

In 1973 Mike Schmidt as the everyday starter hit .196.

 

In 1986 Barry Bonds as the everyday starter hit .223.

 

In 1990 Sammy Sosa as the everyday starter hit .233.

 

So enough judging a player based on his first year as an everyday starter.

 

cedeno at age 23 had a 54 OPS+

 

schmidt at age 23 had a 93 OPS+

 

bonds at age 21 had a 103 OPS+

 

sosa at age 21 had a 92 OPS+

 

 

in two cases cedeno was 2 years older than the player, and all of the players you mentioned were doing something well - hitting for power, drawing some walks, or both. cedeno wasn't doing either one. pointing this out for no other reason than to say that the comparisons aren't good ones. you need to find someone who was completely unproductive.