Krivsky fired; Jocketty hired

[bukie]

Wagner was hardly a flame-out prospect at the time of the trade. He was a 24-year old that torched up a relief role in AAA.

 

Kearns and Lopez were two of the better hitting players the Reds had, and were just entering their prime years. Unless Krivsky knew they were both going to fall off the map at age 27, it's difficult to give him credit for that.

 

Harris was probably the best part of the deal for the Reds, but they gave him away for nothing at the end of the year, where he finally caught on offensively in Tampa.

 

Majewski was no better than Wagner could've expected to have been, and was two years older.

 

Bray is currently in his 4th year of AAA as a relief pitcher, getting an average of about 22 innings a year. This year, though, he looks pretty good after 6 innings.

 

Thompson was drafted in 2003, and spent part of 2006 in rookie ball. He's finally moving up the levels, but isn't among the top 20 prospects the Reds have.

 

At the time of the trade, this was a historically lopsided trade, and everyone from Rotoworld to BA was blasting it, particularly because the Reds traded two quality young starters for a reliever (Majewski) and two low-rated prospects, while at the same time trading away their best young reliever (Wagner). It was a very bad trade at the time, and only looks better now because Lopez and Wagner declined.

[TruffleShuffle]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/printer/p261918.html

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5305

 

i think the latter one is premium, so i'll cut and paste a bit:

 

After so much careful pruning and adding onto a club from which so little was expected, it's with considerable disappointment that we have to recognize that now is the moment at which Reds GM Wayne Krivsky is every bit as desperate as a dog for his bone, beyond the point of rational decision-making. What is it that's made him go begging? Was it just this club's catching a scent of contention, and, after recovering from the surprise, a choice to do the utmost to exploit it? If so, it's akin to the same debilitating, indiscrete predilection that preyed upon the minds of GMs like Steve Phillips or Ed Wade or, dare we say it, Lou Gorman. All of them felt there was a bullpen-building move or moves that would fix entire seasons, and that with postseason greatness at stake, some big move had to be made to fix everything. Sadly, that weakness, that absolute insensibility to the costs outweighing the benefits, is what led to some of the signature acts of stupidity in those men's careers, acts which subsequently ruined each of them.

[reds44]

Wagner was hardly a flame-out prospect at the time of the trade. He was a 24-year old that torched up a relief role in AAA.

 

Kearns and Lopez were two of the better hitting players the Reds had, and were just entering their prime years. Unless Krivsky knew they were both going to fall off the map at age 27, it's difficult to give him credit for that.

 

Harris was probably the best part of the deal for the Reds, but they gave him away for nothing at the end of the year, where he finally caught on offensively in Tampa.

 

Majewski was no better than Wagner could've expected to have been, and was two years older.

 

Bray is currently in his 4th year of AAA as a relief pitcher, getting an average of about 22 innings a year. This year, though, he looks pretty good after 6 innings.

 

Thompson was drafted in 2003, and spent part of 2006 in rookie ball. He's finally moving up the levels, but isn't among the top 20 prospects the Reds have.

 

At the time of the trade, this was a historically lopsided trade, and everyone from Rotoworld to BA was blasting it, particularly because the Reds traded two quality young starters for a reliever (Majewski) and two low-rated prospects, while at the same time trading away their best young reliever (Wagner). It was a very bad trade at the time, and only looks better now because Lopez and Wagner declined.

Both Wagner and Lopez were declining when they were traded, and Krivsky saw that. Lopez has a career OPS of .723 and can't play a lick of defense. Krivsky theoretically sold high on him, the problem was he didn't get anything for him.

 

Bray will be in the majors within the next few weeks, and will probably be right behind Cordero and Burton in terms of "stuff".

Thompson as a 22 year old in AA:

23.2 IP

16 H

2 ER

25 Ks

1 BB

 

He's the Reds best pitching prospect (excluding Cueto and Volquez) other than Homer Bailey. I'm not really sure how you say he's not a Reds top 20 prospect.

 

Trades aren't judged at the time they are completed either. You can't judge them until they play out. If Bray turns out to be a solid reliever and Thompson turns into a major league SP, the Reds could still get the "better". However, the trade didn't work out for either team.

 

The problem is, Krivsky got really desperate for relief pitching, and he got himself in trouble. He got desperate for SP and a CF this year, and ended up giving Patterson and Fogg multi-million dollar contracts when they could have been had for peanuts.

[TruffleShuffle]

Both Wagner and Lopez were declining when they were traded, and Krivsky saw that.

 

well you definitely shouldn't have fired him then. you're hard pressed to find a talent evaluator who knows that two of his guys have peaked at age 25.

[SouthSideRyan]

You're missing the point reds. The value of Kearns, Lopez, and Wagner at the time was much more than what they got in return.

 

That trade (likely didn't, but if you squint a little) could've cost them the division that year by running out the corpse of Royce Clayton as a starting SS and Ryan Freel as a corner OF the rest of the way.

[reds44]

You're missing the point reds. The value of Kearns, Lopez, and Wagner at the time was much more than what they got in return.

 

That trade (likely didn't, but if you squint a little) could've cost them the division that year by running out the corpse of Royce Clayton as a starting SS and Ryan Freel as a corner OF the rest of the way.

I've never disagreed with anything you just said.

 

It was a bad trade for the Reds, and it turned out to be a bad one for the Nationals.

[Post Count Padder]

Just saw this. Pretty disappointing.

[CuseCubFan69]

Next move: Bailey, Votto and a reliever for Joe Blanton.

 

You sound like a jilted lover! I was wondering how you'd feel about this, well....how do you feel about this?

[wolf stansson]

Next move: Bailey, Votto and a reliever for Joe Blanton.

 

You sound like a jilted lover! I was wondering how you'd feel about this, well....how do you feel about this?

Don't really care. His time came and went. He is a smart guy, but isn't embracing this new era of player development. His success was based largely on 75 cent on the dollar trades like Edmonds, McGwire, Woody Williams, Darryl Kile and Rolen. Those just don't happen anymore. In a market like Cincinnati, I don't see him having much success unless it is despite himself.

[mul21]

Next move: Bailey, Votto and a reliever for Joe Blanton.

 

You sound like a jilted lover! I was wondering how you'd feel about this, well....how do you feel about this?

Don't really care. His time came and went. He is a smart guy, but isn't embracing this new era of player development. His success was based largely on 75 cent on the dollar trades like Edmonds, McGwire, Woody Williams, Darryl Kile and Rolen. Those just don't happen anymore. In a market like Cincinnati, I don't see him having much success unless it is despite himself.

 

And this is why we like wolf. That's about as succinctly as you can sum up Jocketty's way of doing things. His lack of vision in terms of prospect and building a team have killed the Cards and their farm system. Unfortunately for Cubs fans, they now have some people in the FO who have a clue.

[CuseCubFan69]

Next move: Bailey, Votto and a reliever for Joe Blanton.

 

You sound like a jilted lover! I was wondering how you'd feel about this, well....how do you feel about this?

Don't really care. His time came and went. He is a smart guy, but isn't embracing this new era of player development. His success was based largely on 75 cent on the dollar trades like Edmonds, McGwire, Woody Williams, Darryl Kile and Rolen. Those just don't happen anymore. In a market like Cincinnati, I don't see him having much success unless it is despite himself.

 

The Reds do have some young talent to rape and pillage and it gives him a second chance after failing to build up/trading your farm.

[Vanilla Ice]

The Cubs turned a rule 5 pick into Edinson Volquez

 

fixed

[reds44]

The Cubs turned a rule 5 pick into Edinson Volquez

 

fixed

How is that 50K treatin ya?

[Bote McBoteface]

What are the odds that Jocketty does the right thing and fires Dusty at the end of the year? It doesn't seem like the Reds are going to compete this year, so unless they turn things around quickly their young arms might make it through a year of Dusty alive.

[JimSorgi]

The Cubs turned a rule 5 pick into Edinson Volquez

 

fixed

How is that 50K treatin ya?

How is Dusty treatin ya?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh burn!

[reds44]

The Cubs turned a rule 5 pick into Edinson Volquez

 

fixed

How is that 50K treatin ya?

How is Dusty treatin ya?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh burn!

hahaha

 

oh snap!

[SouthSideRyan]

What are the odds that Jocketty does the right thing and fires Dusty at the end of the year? It doesn't seem like the Reds are going to compete this year, so unless they turn things around quickly their young arms might make it through a year of Dusty alive.

 

Wouldn't the right thing be to fire Dusty now?

[TruffleShuffle]

What are the odds that Jocketty does the right thing and fires Dusty at the end of the year? It doesn't seem like the Reds are going to compete this year, so unless they turn things around quickly their young arms might make it through a year of Dusty alive.

 

Wouldn't the right thing be to fire Dusty now?

 

no, yesterday

[Vanilla Ice]

What are the odds that Jocketty does the right thing and fires Dusty at the end of the year? It doesn't seem like the Reds are going to compete this year, so unless they turn things around quickly their young arms might make it through a year of Dusty alive.

 

Wouldn't the right thing be to fire Dusty now?

 

no, yesterday

no, never hire him

[Pushfrog98]

I was listening to the pre-game show on the radio before the cardinals/reds game that I went to last night, and they had Walt Jockety on.

 

He was talking about how they have like 14 free agents at the end of the year and how that could really hurt them. He then went on to say that he'll probably have to make a few deals in order to at least get something back for some of the FA's, but didn't really go into any details about who he would deal.