4/16 Dusty Baker's Reds (Fogg) @ Cubs (Z!) 7:05 CSN

[BCVM22]

Definitely his brother's brother.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

7 IP, 2 ER, 103 pitches....with the wind blowing out, its just about a perfect line....got what you wanted 7 IP and didnt strain for a moment....

 

 

I agree. Zambrano wasn't overworked tonight. I think he was lifted at just the right time.

[Soul]

Hart almost got in on the hit parade. That would've been fun.

[Yeti]

7 IP, 2 ER, 103 pitches....with the wind blowing out, its just about a perfect line....got what you wanted 7 IP and didnt strain for a moment....

 

 

I agree. Zambrano wasn't overworked tonight. I think he was lifted at just the right time.

and Z got his 3 hits to boot!

[David]

Ugh, Weaver is really putting a hurting on my ERA tonight.

[Jon]

Let's say you're right. Let's say Lou left him in so Z could have some fun. There's value in that, too. Especially for a guy like Z. And that value overrides your 1% chance he might get hurt, which is probably the same % chance of him getting hurt on the way to the ballpark.

 

I'm just guessing, but I think Lou left him in so Z could pitch a good, long start in a groove. And I think that's helpful to Z as well. And it's certainly more helpful than getting every long reliever on the staff an inning of work, when they'll likely get innings coming up over the next couple days anyway.

Z had plenty of fun tonight and if he would have been pulled after the 6th, he would have been leaving after a relatively quick inning of work. Instead, he left on a down note, giving up a single and two doubles. Even if he had thrown a perfect 7th, he wouldn't have finished in more of a groove than if he had left after 6.

 

Getting one reliever two innings and another one an inning of work would have been a good idea. As I said, there are three long relievers on the team who have barely seen the mound the last week.

[Guest]

The question is why. Piniella already decided that the starters don't need extra days off in April in an attempt to keep them in a routine and apparently Zambrano doesn't need any shorter nights, either. What is the logic behind leaving Zambrano in there, especially when you have relievers that need work?

 

The idea that Carlos has had high pitch counts all his life as justification is absurd. Z finished with the 2nd highest PAP total in the majors in 2007, 2006, and 2005. Is there any reason to leave him in there?

 

And how exactly is this a rant?

 

It's a rant because you said a variation of the same thing about 10 times. We get it, you're not happy that Z was still in there but there's no need to keep repeating it over and over.

 

As far as the Z question, you answered your own question with the bolded - it's a routine. And as far as PAP, my basic knowledge of them tells me that they don't start until you go over 100 pitches and, I believe, it's ((# of pitches) - 100) ^3. Z threw 101 pitches which would add up to a whopping 1 PAP. It's not that big of a deal.

[cubweiser03]

Z

7IP 1BB

Those are the numbers getting my most attention.

[Soul]

Let's say you're right. Let's say Lou left him in so Z could have some fun. There's value in that, too. Especially for a guy like Z. And that value overrides your 1% chance he might get hurt, which is probably the same % chance of him getting hurt on the way to the ballpark.

 

I'm just guessing, but I think Lou left him in so Z could pitch a good, long start in a groove. And I think that's helpful to Z as well. And it's certainly more helpful than getting every long reliever on the staff an inning of work, when they'll likely get innings coming up over the next couple days anyway.

Z had plenty of fun tonight and if he would have been pulled after the 6th, he would have been leaving after a relatively quick inning of work. Instead, he left on a down note, giving up a single and two doubles. Even if he had thrown a perfect 7th, he wouldn't have finished in more of a groove than if he had left after 6.

 

Getting one reliever two innings and another one an inning of work would have been a good idea. As I said, there are three long relievers on the team who have barely seen the mound the last week.

 

As I said, they'll see the mound soon enough. Getting long relievers an inning of work might be a good idea, but it's not nearly as good an idea as allowing your starter to do what he usually does.

 

Z left on a down note? You're reaching. Did you see him in the dugout by chance?

[Yeti]

As I said, there are three long relievers on the team who have barely seen the mound the last week.

IIRC, and i was at the games we had 3 xtra inning games in the last week, our pen has been well exercised

[Jon]

The question is why. Piniella already decided that the starters don't need extra days off in April in an attempt to keep them in a routine and apparently Zambrano doesn't need any shorter nights, either. What is the logic behind leaving Zambrano in there, especially when you have relievers that need work?

 

The idea that Carlos has had high pitch counts all his life as justification is absurd. Z finished with the 2nd highest PAP total in the majors in 2007, 2006, and 2005. Is there any reason to leave him in there?

 

And how exactly is this a rant?

 

It's a rant because you said a variation of the same thing about 10 times. We get it, you're not happy that Z was still in there but there's no need to keep repeating it over and over.

 

As far as the Z question, you answered your own question with the bolded - it's a routine. And as far as PAP, my basic knowledge of them tells me that they don't start until you go over 100 pitches and, I believe, it's ((# of pitches) - 100) ^3. Z threw 101 pitches which would add up to a whopping 1 PAP. It's not that big of a deal.

I'm being told that it's better to let Zambrano throw over 100 pitches because he's used to it and that makes no sense to me at all. There's a long list of reasons why he shouldn't have been out there and just how risky the decision was is completely irrelevant. Piniella is managing a roster of 25 guys and not a video game. He shouldn't be making these kinds of decisions.

[Guest]

The question is why. Piniella already decided that the starters don't need extra days off in April in an attempt to keep them in a routine and apparently Zambrano doesn't need any shorter nights, either. What is the logic behind leaving Zambrano in there, especially when you have relievers that need work?

 

The idea that Carlos has had high pitch counts all his life as justification is absurd. Z finished with the 2nd highest PAP total in the majors in 2007, 2006, and 2005. Is there any reason to leave him in there?

 

And how exactly is this a rant?

 

It's a rant because you said a variation of the same thing about 10 times. We get it, you're not happy that Z was still in there but there's no need to keep repeating it over and over.

 

As far as the Z question, you answered your own question with the bolded - it's a routine. And as far as PAP, my basic knowledge of them tells me that they don't start until you go over 100 pitches and, I believe, it's ((# of pitches) - 100) ^3. Z threw 101 pitches which would add up to a whopping 1 PAP. It's not that big of a deal.

I'm being told that it's better to let Zambrano throw over 100 pitches because he's used to it and that makes no sense to me at all. There's a long list of reasons why he shouldn't have been out there and just how risky the decision was is completely irrelevant. Piniella is managing a roster of 25 guys and not a video game. He shouldn't be making these kinds of decisions.

 

IT'S ONE FLIPPING PITCH OVER 100!! If he had thrown 99 pitches, would you be bitching and moaning so much? You're making it seem like he threw 115 or 120.

 

I guess it's a step in the right direction that you backed off making it seem like leaving Z in to bat in the seventh was going to kill him.

Edited April 17, 2008 by soccer10k

[Flames24Rulz]

Izzy just gave up an RBI double to Counsell. 5-4 Cards in the 9th, but the Brewers have a runner at 2nd and only 1 out.

[Soul]

The question is why. Piniella already decided that the starters don't need extra days off in April in an attempt to keep them in a routine and apparently Zambrano doesn't need any shorter nights, either. What is the logic behind leaving Zambrano in there, especially when you have relievers that need work?

 

The idea that Carlos has had high pitch counts all his life as justification is absurd. Z finished with the 2nd highest PAP total in the majors in 2007, 2006, and 2005. Is there any reason to leave him in there?

 

And how exactly is this a rant?

 

It's a rant because you said a variation of the same thing about 10 times. We get it, you're not happy that Z was still in there but there's no need to keep repeating it over and over.

 

As far as the Z question, you answered your own question with the bolded - it's a routine. And as far as PAP, my basic knowledge of them tells me that they don't start until you go over 100 pitches and, I believe, it's ((# of pitches) - 100) ^3. Z threw 101 pitches which would add up to a whopping 1 PAP. It's not that big of a deal.

I'm being told that it's better to let Zambrano throw over 100 pitches because he's used to it and that makes no sense to me at all. There's a long list of reasons why he shouldn't have been out there and just how risky the decision was is completely irrelevant. Piniella is managing a roster of 25 guys and not a video game. He shouldn't be making these kinds of decisions.

 

Honestly, you're making about as little sense to me as I've ever seen from you. Are you sure this is Jon? Get Jon on the keyboard :)

 

I can't figure out why in the world this is worth complaining about. The whole thing is an extra-super-duper, reach-for-something-to-be-upset-about-in-a-Cub-blowout.....situation.

 

Lee is still in there. Why not complain about that? He COULD stub a toe. Come on Jon.

[weis21]

The question is why. Piniella already decided that the starters don't need extra days off in April in an attempt to keep them in a routine and apparently Zambrano doesn't need any shorter nights, either. What is the logic behind leaving Zambrano in there, especially when you have relievers that need work?

 

The idea that Carlos has had high pitch counts all his life as justification is absurd. Z finished with the 2nd highest PAP total in the majors in 2007, 2006, and 2005. Is there any reason to leave him in there?

 

And how exactly is this a rant?

 

It's a rant because you said a variation of the same thing about 10 times. We get it, you're not happy that Z was still in there but there's no need to keep repeating it over and over.

 

As far as the Z question, you answered your own question with the bolded - it's a routine. And as far as PAP, my basic knowledge of them tells me that they don't start until you go over 100 pitches and, I believe, it's ((# of pitches) - 100) ^3. Z threw 101 pitches which would add up to a whopping 1 PAP. It's not that big of a deal.

I'm being told that it's better to let Zambrano throw over 100 pitches because he's used to it and that makes no sense to me at all. There's a long list of reasons why he shouldn't have been out there and just how risky the decision was is completely irrelevant. Piniella is managing a roster of 25 guys and not a video game. He shouldn't be making these kinds of decisions.

 

Over 100 pitches = 101 to infinity. Zambrano tonight = 101

[series65cubsfan]

Cubs Win!

[Guest]

Though it hasn't been in doubt for a while now...

 

CUBS WIN!!

[Flames24Rulz]

Ballgame.

[ctcf]

Time to get the next one up...

[David]

The question is why. Piniella already decided that the starters don't need extra days off in April in an attempt to keep them in a routine and apparently Zambrano doesn't need any shorter nights, either. What is the logic behind leaving Zambrano in there, especially when you have relievers that need work?

 

The idea that Carlos has had high pitch counts all his life as justification is absurd. Z finished with the 2nd highest PAP total in the majors in 2007, 2006, and 2005. Is there any reason to leave him in there?

 

And how exactly is this a rant?

 

It's a rant because you said a variation of the same thing about 10 times. We get it, you're not happy that Z was still in there but there's no need to keep repeating it over and over.

 

As far as the Z question, you answered your own question with the bolded - it's a routine. And as far as PAP, my basic knowledge of them tells me that they don't start until you go over 100 pitches and, I believe, it's ((# of pitches) - 100) ^3. Z threw 101 pitches which would add up to a whopping 1 PAP. It's not that big of a deal.

I'm being told that it's better to let Zambrano throw over 100 pitches because he's used to it and that makes no sense to me at all. There's a long list of reasons why he shouldn't have been out there and just how risky the decision was is completely irrelevant. Piniella is managing a roster of 25 guys and not a video game. He shouldn't be making these kinds of decisions.

 

IT'S ONE FLIPPING PITCH OVER 100!! If he had thrown 99 pitches, would you be bitching and moaning so much? You're making it seem like he threw 115 or 120.

 

I guess it's a step in the right direction that you backed off making it seem like leaving Z in to bat in the seventh was going to kill him.

 

I don't want to speak for Jon on this, but it might be an argument more based on principle than any real problem with Zambrano throwing the 101st pitch. For me it is, at least.

Edited April 17, 2008 by David

[Jon]

The question is why. Piniella already decided that the starters don't need extra days off in April in an attempt to keep them in a routine and apparently Zambrano doesn't need any shorter nights, either. What is the logic behind leaving Zambrano in there, especially when you have relievers that need work?

 

The idea that Carlos has had high pitch counts all his life as justification is absurd. Z finished with the 2nd highest PAP total in the majors in 2007, 2006, and 2005. Is there any reason to leave him in there?

 

And how exactly is this a rant?

 

It's a rant because you said a variation of the same thing about 10 times. We get it, you're not happy that Z was still in there but there's no need to keep repeating it over and over.

 

As far as the Z question, you answered your own question with the bolded - it's a routine. And as far as PAP, my basic knowledge of them tells me that they don't start until you go over 100 pitches and, I believe, it's ((# of pitches) - 100) ^3. Z threw 101 pitches which would add up to a whopping 1 PAP. It's not that big of a deal.

I'm being told that it's better to let Zambrano throw over 100 pitches because he's used to it and that makes no sense to me at all. There's a long list of reasons why he shouldn't have been out there and just how risky the decision was is completely irrelevant. Piniella is managing a roster of 25 guys and not a video game. He shouldn't be making these kinds of decisions.

 

IT'S ONE FLIPPING PITCH OVER 100!! If he had thrown 99 pitches, would you be bitching and moaning so much? You're making it seem like he threw 115 or 120.

Apparently nobody is getting my argument, or David's, so I'll start over.

 

It has nothing to do with how much risk there was involved. It's that Lou made a decision that carried some risk when there was no reason to. Again, the amount of risk is totally irrelevant.

 

I would have liked to have seen Zambrano taken out after 6, when his PC was in the 80s. We have three long relievers who need work. One will be held back for tomorrow, but that still leaves two. But the overall point is that there's no redeeming value to Lou's decision yet there's a risk, so why do it?

[Guest]

The question is why. Piniella already decided that the starters don't need extra days off in April in an attempt to keep them in a routine and apparently Zambrano doesn't need any shorter nights, either. What is the logic behind leaving Zambrano in there, especially when you have relievers that need work?

 

The idea that Carlos has had high pitch counts all his life as justification is absurd. Z finished with the 2nd highest PAP total in the majors in 2007, 2006, and 2005. Is there any reason to leave him in there?

 

And how exactly is this a rant?

 

It's a rant because you said a variation of the same thing about 10 times. We get it, you're not happy that Z was still in there but there's no need to keep repeating it over and over.

 

As far as the Z question, you answered your own question with the bolded - it's a routine. And as far as PAP, my basic knowledge of them tells me that they don't start until you go over 100 pitches and, I believe, it's ((# of pitches) - 100) ^3. Z threw 101 pitches which would add up to a whopping 1 PAP. It's not that big of a deal.

I'm being told that it's better to let Zambrano throw over 100 pitches because he's used to it and that makes no sense to me at all. There's a long list of reasons why he shouldn't have been out there and just how risky the decision was is completely irrelevant. Piniella is managing a roster of 25 guys and not a video game. He shouldn't be making these kinds of decisions.

 

IT'S ONE FLIPPING PITCH OVER 100!! If he had thrown 99 pitches, would you be bitching and moaning so much? You're making it seem like he threw 115 or 120.

Apparently nobody is getting my argument, or David's, so I'll start over.

 

It has nothing to do with how much risk there was involved. It's that Lou made a decision that carried some risk when there was no reason to. Again, the amount of risk is totally irrelevant.

 

I would have liked to have seen Zambrano taken out after 6, when his PC was in the 80s. We have three long relievers who need work. One will be held back for tomorrow, but that still leaves two. But the overall point is that there's no redeeming value to Lou's decision yet there's a risk, so why do it?

 

Maybe that's because your argument makes no sense.

[David]

Izzy just gave up an RBI double to Counsell. 5-4 Cards in the 9th, but the Brewers have a runner at 2nd and only 1 out.

 

I'd rather the Cardinals win anyways (which they did)... Cards will fall back to earth. Brewers losses are a good thing.

[Outshined_One]

We won, by the way.

[Andy]

Anybody else watching the Reds' TV broadcast on FSN Ohio? Sour grapes, Welsh/Brennaman.

"Throwing the ball back onto the field is a tradition that started here at Wrigley, and frankly, I'm getting tired of it."

Hate these two bozos...

Brennaman's a prick who has to insert his opinion in all the time, and since it's the Cubs, it's always a very stupid and blinded-by-his-bitterness-at-them opinion to boot.